Copper, Aluminium, Silver and Flourinert = Problems?

starbuck3733t · 03-08-2005, 11:09 AM

I'm contemplating a setup with the following:

1 x Cascade G5 (Silver) (1/2")
1 x Eheim 1250 (1/2" out)
1 x acrylic res
1 x '85 ford van heatercore
1 x AquaComputer Twinplex northbridge (CU) (6mm ID)
1 x AquaComputer AquagrATIx (AL) (6mm ID)
1 x Silentstar Dual HDD cooler (CU) (6mm ID)
1 x custom VRM block (CU) (6mm ID)
1 x custom H2O cooled PSU (CU) (6mmID)

Flow as such = res -> pump in > pump out > G5 > 1/2 to 4x6mm splitter:
Split 1: Northbridge
Split 2: GPU
Split 3: Silentstar
Split 4: VRMs+PSU
Recombine to 1/2" -> res

copper+silver = not a problem
copper+AL = problems (can be countered to some degree with anticorrosive agents)
silver+AL = BIG PROBLEMS (can't be countered easily with anticorrosive agents)
copper+silver+AL = "RUT ROH RORGE" (bad)

Can I get around this problem by using flourinert? it seems if the distilled water were replaced by an inert substance (3m flourinert PF-5080), would the galvanic corrosion still occur? I'm guessing no, as the silver and copper are still in wetted contact, but the flourinert wouldn't take any ions from the copper or the silver to corrode the aluminum.

Help is appreciated

GlassMan · 03-08-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

copper+silver = not a problem

Plenty of quality copper stuff out there. After the trouble of creating it in the first place, why have long term worries.

starbuck3733t · 03-08-2005, 12:05 PM

Well, as much as I'd like to make my custom stuff out of copper, its a bitch to work with. Aluminum machiens much easier on my half-ass millpress setup.

GlassMan · 03-08-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

1 x AquaComputer AquagrATIx (AL)

Only AL part listed, custom pieces listed as CU.

starbuck3733t · 03-08-2005, 02:35 PM

Whoops, my fault there.

bobkoure · 03-08-2005, 02:57 PM

flour-inert is made with wheat?

nexxo · 03-08-2005, 06:01 PM

With Fluorinert you should get no corrosion, as it does not conduct electricity and does not react to, or bond with anything. Cools like an SOB too --because of its very low surface tension it makes good contact with blocks and rad.

Oh, and it doesn't turn your tubing opaque.

starbuck3733t · 03-09-2005, 01:09 AM

Damn you nexxo, gotta be pickin on the opaque white tubing

I suppose you're the source.

Butcher · 03-09-2005, 02:24 AM

Possible issue with florinert - evaporates very easily, unknown how permeable tubing is to it long term.

Hoot · 03-09-2005, 07:48 AM

I haven't checked cost and availability lately, but the stuff used to fetch a kings ransom, if you could get it. If I were going Fluorinert, I'd just go to direct die cooling and skip the "middlemen".

Hoot

bobkoure · 03-09-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcher

Possible issue with florinert - evaporates very easily, unknown how permeable tubing is to it long term.

There's also Galden, yet another fluorinated fluid...

andy497 · 03-09-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexxo

With Fluorinert you should get no corrosion, as it does not conduct electricity and does not react to, or bond with anything. Cools like an SOB too --because of its very low surface tension it makes good contact with blocks and rad.

Oh, and it doesn't turn your tubing opaque.

It may have the surface tension advantage, but the numbers I saw show flourinert to have a very low specific heat. (.23 or thereabouts). Straight ethylene glycol is ~.6 and 30/70 glycol/water is ~.9, so that is pretty significant.

In that case, running straight anti-freeze might be a better (and much cheaper) option. I don't know if that helps the Al-Ag situation however.

redleader · 03-09-2005, 01:58 PM

If the fluid dissolves metal very much, you may get corrosion even if its not conductive.

maxSaleen · 03-09-2005, 08:19 PM

I'd say figure out a way to eliminate the al in the loop. Perhaps an alternative block from danger den? If you want a better quality block look around the extreme system forums. There is a guy there who makes his own gpu blocks. Charges reasonable prices and needs like 2 weeks of lead time. (I'd give you the link to one of his threads but I'm too lazy to look right now). Flourient is very expensive. Sometimes you can find it on ebay. Its cooling performance isn't THAT great. The lower surface tension helps but I can't imagine that it helps enough to overcome its substantially lower specific heat capacity. Certainly not worth what you pay for it in my opinion.

nexxo · 04-09-2005, 02:18 PM

Oh, yea of little faith... Yes, Fluorinert does evaporate at room temperature, but I've been running it in an ordinary closed system for a few months now and the level hasn't dropped at all (and I measured it carefully). It does not permeate the tubes (I mean, really...). And it does not dissolve metal. It's that whole inert thing, geddit?

As for the low specific heat and performance issues... all I know is that I cool a dual Opteron 250 and a Radeon 9800Pro on a single BIX with a low-flow Panaflo (69.7CFM) --that is about 220Watts-- and I get temps of 40C to 45C. Your mileage may vary, but it sounds pretty good to me.

It may be pricey but at least I will never have to drain and clean the system. And in the unlikely event of it spilling all over the system I rather lose £70,-- of PF-5080 than a couple of thousand pounds in short-circuited hardware. So as for it being worth the money: you make your choice and you pay your price...

03-08-2005, 11:09 AM	#1
starbuck3733t Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: State College, PA Posts: 338	Copper, Aluminium, Silver and Flourinert = Problems? I'm contemplating a setup with the following: 1 x Cascade G5 (Silver) (1/2") 1 x Eheim 1250 (1/2" out) 1 x acrylic res 1 x '85 ford van heatercore 1 x AquaComputer Twinplex northbridge (CU) (6mm ID) 1 x AquaComputer AquagrATIx (AL) (6mm ID) 1 x Silentstar Dual HDD cooler (CU) (6mm ID) 1 x custom VRM block (CU) (6mm ID) 1 x custom H2O cooled PSU (CU) (6mmID) Flow as such = res -> pump in > pump out > G5 > 1/2 to 4x6mm splitter: Split 1: Northbridge Split 2: GPU Split 3: Silentstar Split 4: VRMs+PSU Recombine to 1/2" -> res copper+silver = not a problem copper+AL = problems (can be countered to some degree with anticorrosive agents) silver+AL = BIG PROBLEMS (can't be countered easily with anticorrosive agents) copper+silver+AL = "RUT ROH RORGE" (bad) Can I get around this problem by using flourinert? it seems if the distilled water were replaced by an inert substance (3m flourinert PF-5080), would the galvanic corrosion still occur? I'm guessing no, as the silver and copper are still in wetted contact, but the flourinert wouldn't take any ions from the copper or the silver to corrode the aluminum. Help is appreciated __________________ Goliath: 3.4E@3.91/Abit IC7, Maze4 (temporarily) + custom splitter to crazy 4-way watercooling parallel loop: X800XT @ 520/1280 + AC Twinplex, AC Twinplex Northbridge, Silenstar Dual HDD Cooler, Eheim1250, '85 econoline van HC + 2x120, 1x120 exhaust - polished aluminum frame panaflo L1As, 2x18GB 10K RPM U160 SCSI, 4GB PC4000. I wanna be BladeRunner when I grow up! Project Goliath - nearing completion.

03-08-2005, 12:05 PM	#3
starbuck3733t Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: State College, PA Posts: 338	Well, as much as I'd like to make my custom stuff out of copper, its a bitch to work with. Aluminum machiens much easier on my half-ass millpress setup. __________________ Goliath: 3.4E@3.91/Abit IC7, Maze4 (temporarily) + custom splitter to crazy 4-way watercooling parallel loop: X800XT @ 520/1280 + AC Twinplex, AC Twinplex Northbridge, Silenstar Dual HDD Cooler, Eheim1250, '85 econoline van HC + 2x120, 1x120 exhaust - polished aluminum frame panaflo L1As, 2x18GB 10K RPM U160 SCSI, 4GB PC4000. I wanna be BladeRunner when I grow up! Project Goliath - nearing completion.

03-08-2005, 02:35 PM	#5
starbuck3733t Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: State College, PA Posts: 338	Whoops, my fault there. __________________ Goliath: 3.4E@3.91/Abit IC7, Maze4 (temporarily) + custom splitter to crazy 4-way watercooling parallel loop: X800XT @ 520/1280 + AC Twinplex, AC Twinplex Northbridge, Silenstar Dual HDD Cooler, Eheim1250, '85 econoline van HC + 2x120, 1x120 exhaust - polished aluminum frame panaflo L1As, 2x18GB 10K RPM U160 SCSI, 4GB PC4000. I wanna be BladeRunner when I grow up! Project Goliath - nearing completion.

03-08-2005, 06:01 PM	#7
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	With Fluorinert you should get no corrosion, as it does not conduct electricity and does not react to, or bond with anything. Cools like an SOB too --because of its very low surface tension it makes good contact with blocks and rad. Oh, and it doesn't turn your tubing opaque. __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

03-09-2005, 01:09 AM	#8
starbuck3733t Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: State College, PA Posts: 338	Damn you nexxo, gotta be pickin on the opaque white tubing I suppose you're the source. __________________ Goliath: 3.4E@3.91/Abit IC7, Maze4 (temporarily) + custom splitter to crazy 4-way watercooling parallel loop: X800XT @ 520/1280 + AC Twinplex, AC Twinplex Northbridge, Silenstar Dual HDD Cooler, Eheim1250, '85 econoline van HC + 2x120, 1x120 exhaust - polished aluminum frame panaflo L1As, 2x18GB 10K RPM U160 SCSI, 4GB PC4000. I wanna be BladeRunner when I grow up! Project Goliath - nearing completion.

03-08-2005, 02:57 PM	#6
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	flour-inert is made with wheat?

03-09-2005, 02:24 AM	#9
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	Possible issue with florinert - evaporates very easily, unknown how permeable tubing is to it long term. __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

03-09-2005, 07:48 AM	#10
Hoot Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 67	I haven't checked cost and availability lately, but the stuff used to fetch a kings ransom, if you could get it. If I were going Fluorinert, I'd just go to direct die cooling and skip the "middlemen". Hoot __________________ DFI LP UT NF4 Ultra-D 7.04-3 Bios A64 3700+ San Diego 11x257 (2827 Mhz) @ 1.57Vcore 2x1Gb Crucial Ballistix 7:6 (300 Mhz) 3-3-3-8-1T @ 2.77V Connect 3D x850xt 620/625 2x WD 36GB Raptors in Raid0 DIY Jet Impingement WB on CPU / Pipecap WB on GPU Shrouded Camaro Heater Core / Swiftech MCP655 Pump Antec P-160 Tower / Seasonic S12 600W PSU MAXIM 6658 Thermal Diode Reader Moderator at OCForums

03-09-2005, 01:58 PM	#13
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	If the fluid dissolves metal very much, you may get corrosion even if its not conductive.

03-09-2005, 08:19 PM	#14
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	I'd say figure out a way to eliminate the al in the loop. Perhaps an alternative block from danger den? If you want a better quality block look around the extreme system forums. There is a guy there who makes his own gpu blocks. Charges reasonable prices and needs like 2 weeks of lead time. (I'd give you the link to one of his threads but I'm too lazy to look right now). Flourient is very expensive. Sometimes you can find it on ebay. Its cooling performance isn't THAT great. The lower surface tension helps but I can't imagine that it helps enough to overcome its substantially lower specific heat capacity. Certainly not worth what you pay for it in my opinion.

04-09-2005, 02:18 PM	#15
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Oh, yea of little faith... Yes, Fluorinert does evaporate at room temperature, but I've been running it in an ordinary closed system for a few months now and the level hasn't dropped at all (and I measured it carefully). It does not permeate the tubes (I mean, really...). And it does not dissolve metal. It's that whole inert thing, geddit? As for the low specific heat and performance issues... all I know is that I cool a dual Opteron 250 and a Radeon 9800Pro on a single BIX with a low-flow Panaflo (69.7CFM) --that is about 220Watts-- and I get temps of 40C to 45C. Your mileage may vary, but it sounds pretty good to me. It may be pricey but at least I will never have to drain and clean the system. And in the unlikely event of it spilling all over the system I rather lose £70,-- of PF-5080 than a couple of thousand pounds in short-circuited hardware. So as for it being worth the money: you make your choice and you pay your price... __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

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