Current options for quiet wc'ing?

fierce_freak · 05-31-2005, 02:55 AM

What's out there now? I had a ddc, tdx, and bip about six months ago before I got on this back to basics air only kick. The DDC was acceptably quiet, but I don't think I'd want to go any louder than that. I want to cool a cpu and gpu, moderately overclocked. I'm not interested in absolute peak cooling performance.

Would the best option be two loops with two pumps such as the new csp-mag? One loop with the DDC or two mags in series? Can the new mcp-655 reach ddc noise levels on a lower setting (3 or 4?), and would the performance be better than the ddc?

I can't wait for the pa160. On radiators, I'm fairly certain that would be the best option for what I'm trying to achieve.

fierce_freak · 06-01-2005, 11:06 PM

Hate to reply to my own post, but I've found something that makes me scratch my head. I've seen reports of the 655 being roughly equivalent noisewise to and eheim 1250...

The description of the pump over at crazypc:

"Please note relative to the MCP-600 or Hydor L-30 this pump is louder... We've tested the pump here and it does make a low buzzing sound, so if you're looking for a dead quiet pump this may not be your choice"

Perhaps left overs from the 650 details page? Looks like I'll go mag...any idea when the DD version'll be up (or is that just a rumor)?

Cathar · 06-02-2005, 12:06 AM

No way on this earth is the MCP655 louder than the MCP600, unless the MCP600 was switched off. I would say that they carried over some old info.

MCP655 is very fractionally louder than the MCP350.

MCP350 is about as loud as an Eheim 1250.

The Eheim 1048 is the quietest pump I've ever personally experienced.

Always have to watch the vibrations though. All pumps transmit vibrations, and if sitting on some hard surface they will make a fair amount of secondary noise that is not the actual noise of the pump itself.

fierce_freak · 06-02-2005, 12:30 AM

Given my stated goals above, do you think a mag, pa160 (hurray for overseas purchase), DD maze4 gpu and dd tdx would be decent (adding another mag later?)?

edit - forgot to mention mobile xp @ 2.4 (1.55 v) and 6800gt (stock)

Dave · 06-02-2005, 07:01 AM

MAG is very close to 1048 noise wise, maybe even less noise, however just as Cathar states, there is a vibration concern, which could lead to noise.

DD is an OEM customer, but like many, they are awaiting more pumps

We are running 3 shifts, 24-7 trying to meet back orders before our shut down for the expansion.

We also have a new injected cases, plastic for pump chamber housing, and alloy injection with PVD coating for drive section.

Will be out Aug/Sept

Here is kind of a cool pic I took the other day for a reviewer, showing what is under "the cap"

http://www.c-systems.ca/images/encaped.jpg

The whole motor is encased in thermal conductive material for additional liquid, thermal, and noise protection.

JSimmons · 06-02-2005, 07:13 AM

I have a tdx(cpu), maze4(gpu), BIX, and a D4, with three pabst 120mm fans volted down to 7V. I can't hear the pump at all (don't know why everyone says this pump is noisy), and can just barely hear the fans. The computer is about two feet from my chair.

I'm going to split the loop when I get my UFO2 case back from the powder coating shop. The reason for splitting the loop is that I'm not comfirtable with the lateral stresses placed on the video card when running tubing between it and the CPU. I think I might also get slightly lower temps on both the cpu and thegpu because they won't be feeding off each other's water

Cathar · 06-02-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSimmons

I have a tdx(cpu), maze4(gpu), BIX, and a D4, with three pabst 120mm fans volted down to 7V. I can't hear the pump at all (don't know why everyone says this pump is noisy), and can just barely hear the fans.

This is an indication of the noise that D4 users regularly complain about:

Voice Reference Based Sound Clip

Turn your volume right up for this one - the recording level is quite low. Hear that high pitched buzzing whine that drills into your skull? Turn up the volume until you can hear the voice at a level that sounds like someone talking from two feet in front of you. The buzzing whine is now at a level of how loud it is from 6" away from the pump. Keep the clip looping (ignoring the voice) and see how long it takes before that noise gets to you.

http://www.employees.org/~slf/d4-voice.wav

D4 vs various fans based sound-clip

http://www.employees.org/~slf/pumpfans.wav

Approximate times within the sound clip. Recordings were taken from 6" away from each item.

0-7.5s - Laing D4 (DD 12V) Pump at 12V
7.5-15s - Laing D4 (DD 12V) Pump at 16V
15-22.5s - Generic 3000RPM 80mm Axial Case Fan
22.5-30s - YSTech 4500RPM 60mm Axial Fan
30-38s - Papst 612NGML 60mm 2500RPM Axial Fan

Ruiner · 06-02-2005, 09:34 AM

I found the D4 ubearably noisy, and did not suffer (a measured) adverse temperature/OC change in my system when I swapped back my 1048.

That said, I 'still' can hear a slight rattle from the 1048 (mounted on a sponge), and that through a heavy steel case lined with 'peel and stick' roofing tape, and over my radiator, case, and psu fans. It's an old pump, so I have a new impeller to swap in. It may help.

SPCR did an interesting review of an acoustically insulated, watercooled case built with an insulated box around a 1046 pump and a passively cooled radiator.

fierce_freak · 06-02-2005, 01:08 PM

"with three pabst 120mm fans volted down to 7V"

That could be why, maybe. I'm sure with only two nexus 120's undervolted ( 9v intake, 5v exhaust plus the very quiet psu fan) would allow the noise of such a pump to drive me up the wall. -edit-to be fair, i've never heard a pabst, i could be wrong

"We are running 3 shifts, 24-7 trying to meet back orders before our shut down for the expansion."

That makes it sound like, hey, order now or you'll have to wait for a new version several months from now...somewhat forces my hand on a pump decision. And, no, I'm not attacking you or blaming you of anything. I've always found your posts helpful, Dave.

edit- I still haven't seen a direct answer to this question: Does adjusting the dial on the 655 to a lower setting reduce noise?

Dave · 06-02-2005, 02:11 PM

It's not a "new" model, just a different case.

Not suggesting you buy one now, just want to make it clear there is no "improved" model coming.

655 dial does reduce noise from what I understand.

Dave

fierce_freak · 06-02-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

It's not a "new" model, just a different case.

Understood. I guess I was a little unclear in my statement. I definitely didn't want to come across as being confrontational ;D

So how long until the shutdown for expansion? Are the numbers of pumps going to OEMs going to be substantial?

To the point, is there going to be a dryspell for mags?

Anyone know at what point on the dial the 655 reaches less than DDC or equal to 1048 noise levels?

Last question (aren't you glad

): I've decided on the pa160 for rad. It's ordered. I'll definitely have a single loop now. Would it be beneficial to split the loop to isolate the cpu and gpu from eachother?

Dave · 06-02-2005, 04:30 PM

"Are the numbers of pumps going to OEMs going to be substantial"

We make about 1000 OEM models per week, expanding to make 5,000 per week.
Don't freak out, 80% of these pumps are for industrial use, not for the PC liquid cooling.

We will be down for 3-5 days, they are changing the electrical buses for the additional equipment.

Dealers have lots of stock on order, so the "dry spell" is now, not later.

Don't think spilt will help out, unless you have seperate loops.
A single 655 has all the power you will ever need, in either case

fierce_freak · 06-02-2005, 11:16 PM

Ok, I pulled the trigger on the rest of the system. I ended up getting the 655 as I needed to order some other things from dangerden. It came down to me not wanting to purchase from more than one place, lol.

Once everything is setup (expecting the pa160 to take a while to arrive) I'll offer my opinion on the 655 as it pertains to cooling for quiet. If I can't get it quiet enough, I see a pair of mags in my future.

fierce_freak · 06-16-2005, 12:00 AM

I've got my new watercooling rig set up. The mcp655 is definitely quiet. I'd say Cathar's assessment is pretty much right on (who would doubt it, though ;D). Even at full tilt, I can't even identify it as a seperate noise source from more than 6-8 inches with the only other noise maker being my psu fan (quiet, but not the greatest, a fortron aurora somesuch...I need a different one badly)

And if you have the ears for it, the pump gets even more quiet at lower settings. I'm thinking that at about setting 3, most silent nuts would be satisfied. Setting 2 is almost a sure thing. Setting 1...yeah.

05-31-2005, 02:55 AM	#1
fierce_freak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: NY Posts: 8	Current options for quiet wc'ing? What's out there now? I had a ddc, tdx, and bip about six months ago before I got on this back to basics air only kick. The DDC was acceptably quiet, but I don't think I'd want to go any louder than that. I want to cool a cpu and gpu, moderately overclocked. I'm not interested in absolute peak cooling performance. Would the best option be two loops with two pumps such as the new csp-mag? One loop with the DDC or two mags in series? Can the new mcp-655 reach ddc noise levels on a lower setting (3 or 4?), and would the performance be better than the ddc? I can't wait for the pa160. On radiators, I'm fairly certain that would be the best option for what I'm trying to achieve.

06-02-2005, 12:30 AM	#4
fierce_freak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: NY Posts: 8	Given my stated goals above, do you think a mag, pa160 (hurray for overseas purchase), DD maze4 gpu and dd tdx would be decent (adding another mag later?)? edit - forgot to mention mobile xp @ 2.4 (1.55 v) and 6800gt (stock) Last edited by fierce_freak; 06-02-2005 at 01:00 AM.

06-02-2005, 07:01 AM	#5
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	MAG is very close to 1048 noise wise, maybe even less noise, however just as Cathar states, there is a vibration concern, which could lead to noise. DD is an OEM customer, but like many, they are awaiting more pumps We are running 3 shifts, 24-7 trying to meet back orders before our shut down for the expansion. We also have a new injected cases, plastic for pump chamber housing, and alloy injection with PVD coating for drive section. Will be out Aug/Sept Here is kind of a cool pic I took the other day for a reviewer, showing what is under "the cap" http://www.c-systems.ca/images/encaped.jpg The whole motor is encased in thermal conductive material for additional liquid, thermal, and noise protection. Last edited by Dave; 06-02-2005 at 07:09 AM.

06-02-2005, 07:13 AM	#6
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	I have a tdx(cpu), maze4(gpu), BIX, and a D4, with three pabst 120mm fans volted down to 7V. I can't hear the pump at all (don't know why everyone says this pump is noisy), and can just barely hear the fans. The computer is about two feet from my chair. I'm going to split the loop when I get my UFO2 case back from the powder coating shop. The reason for splitting the loop is that I'm not comfirtable with the lateral stresses placed on the video card when running tubing between it and the CPU. I think I might also get slightly lower temps on both the cpu and thegpu because they won't be feeding off each other's water __________________ My Watercooling Stuff

06-02-2005, 01:08 PM	#9
fierce_freak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: NY Posts: 8	"with three pabst 120mm fans volted down to 7V" That could be why, maybe. I'm sure with only two nexus 120's undervolted ( 9v intake, 5v exhaust plus the very quiet psu fan) would allow the noise of such a pump to drive me up the wall. -edit-to be fair, i've never heard a pabst, i could be wrong "We are running 3 shifts, 24-7 trying to meet back orders before our shut down for the expansion." That makes it sound like, hey, order now or you'll have to wait for a new version several months from now...somewhat forces my hand on a pump decision. And, no, I'm not attacking you or blaming you of anything. I've always found your posts helpful, Dave. edit- I still haven't seen a direct answer to this question: Does adjusting the dial on the 655 to a lower setting reduce noise? Last edited by fierce_freak; 06-02-2005 at 04:34 PM.

06-01-2005, 11:06 PM	#2
fierce_freak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: NY Posts: 8	Hate to reply to my own post, but I've found something that makes me scratch my head. I've seen reports of the 655 being roughly equivalent noisewise to and eheim 1250... The description of the pump over at crazypc: "Please note relative to the MCP-600 or Hydor L-30 this pump is louder... We've tested the pump here and it does make a low buzzing sound, so if you're looking for a dead quiet pump this may not be your choice" Perhaps left overs from the 650 details page? Looks like I'll go mag...any idea when the DD version'll be up (or is that just a rumor)?

06-02-2005, 12:06 AM	#3
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	No way on this earth is the MCP655 louder than the MCP600, unless the MCP600 was switched off. I would say that they carried over some old info. MCP655 is very fractionally louder than the MCP350. MCP350 is about as loud as an Eheim 1250. The Eheim 1048 is the quietest pump I've ever personally experienced. Always have to watch the vibrations though. All pumps transmit vibrations, and if sitting on some hard surface they will make a fair amount of secondary noise that is not the actual noise of the pump itself.

06-02-2005, 09:34 AM	#8
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	I found the D4 ubearably noisy, and did not suffer (a measured) adverse temperature/OC change in my system when I swapped back my 1048. That said, I 'still' can hear a slight rattle from the 1048 (mounted on a sponge), and that through a heavy steel case lined with 'peel and stick' roofing tape, and over my radiator, case, and psu fans. It's an old pump, so I have a new impeller to swap in. It may help. SPCR did an interesting review of an acoustically insulated, watercooled case built with an insulated box around a 1046 pump and a passively cooled radiator.

06-02-2005, 02:11 PM	#10
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	It's not a "new" model, just a different case. Not suggesting you buy one now, just want to make it clear there is no "improved" model coming. 655 dial does reduce noise from what I understand. Dave

06-02-2005, 04:30 PM	#12
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	"Are the numbers of pumps going to OEMs going to be substantial" We make about 1000 OEM models per week, expanding to make 5,000 per week. Don't freak out, 80% of these pumps are for industrial use, not for the PC liquid cooling. We will be down for 3-5 days, they are changing the electrical buses for the additional equipment. Dealers have lots of stock on order, so the "dry spell" is now, not later. Don't think spilt will help out, unless you have seperate loops. A single 655 has all the power you will ever need, in either case

06-02-2005, 11:16 PM	#13
fierce_freak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: NY Posts: 8	Ok, I pulled the trigger on the rest of the system. I ended up getting the 655 as I needed to order some other things from dangerden. It came down to me not wanting to purchase from more than one place, lol. Once everything is setup (expecting the pa160 to take a while to arrive) I'll offer my opinion on the 655 as it pertains to cooling for quiet. If I can't get it quiet enough, I see a pair of mags in my future.

06-16-2005, 12:00 AM	#14
fierce_freak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: NY Posts: 8	I've got my new watercooling rig set up. The mcp655 is definitely quiet. I'd say Cathar's assessment is pretty much right on (who would doubt it, though ;D). Even at full tilt, I can't even identify it as a seperate noise source from more than 6-8 inches with the only other noise maker being my psu fan (quiet, but not the greatest, a fortron aurora somesuch...I need a different one badly) And if you have the ears for it, the pump gets even more quiet at lower settings. I'm thinking that at about setting 3, most silent nuts would be satisfied. Setting 2 is almost a sure thing. Setting 1...yeah.

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