100,000 hour pump!

Dave · 07-19-2005, 11:04 AM

Today, was the first sampling of our 2500 hour test using our newly developed sapphire on sapphire bearing system (patent pending), for liquid cooling pumps.

Running at 150% of typical load, todays results show a bearing life in the 100,000 hour range.

Testing program will continue, as wear at this point is very difficult to measure, and we need more time and sampling for final predictions.

If this technology is proven, we expect a major increase in pump warranty periods.

Dave B
C-Systems

nikhsub1 · 07-19-2005, 11:56 AM

Not do be an ass, but wasnt the first original C-Systems pump MOTOR rated for 50,000 MTBF? Even still there were plenty of problems with that pump. Interested to see full results of this new one though.

AngryAlpaca · 07-19-2005, 02:10 PM

Yes, the first motor was. This is a rating of the whole pump. How has the experience with the original MAG been?

maxSaleen · 07-19-2005, 07:59 PM

So far, it seems that users have had a very positive experience with the new mag, though I should note that I am yet to get one for myself. Having a 100,000hr rating would be great, even if it is overkill.

jaydee · 07-19-2005, 08:24 PM

How is it possible to "overkill" on pump life expectancy?

Cathar · 07-19-2005, 09:01 PM

I think that C-Systems have improved leaps and bounds, and have shown a positive effort to listen to users and improve their pumps. This can only be a good thing for all.

While a 100000hr MTBF does not necessarily equate to a 100000hr life-span, it certainly spells volumes for the increased quality of manufacture.

csimon · 07-19-2005, 09:24 PM

thanks for your efforts dave. I think that the mag is a definite improvement over a great pump that had tremendous potential.
I have not a single complaint about my mags.

again thanks

kaotic504 · 07-19-2005, 09:37 PM

i'm happy to hear this. reassures me that i've made a good investment. will there be a possible warranty extension then?

AngryAlpaca · 07-19-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

While a 100000hr MTBF does not necessarily equate to a 100000hr life-span

What does it mean then?

Cathar · 07-19-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryAlpaca

What does it mean then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBF

maxSaleen · 07-19-2005, 10:59 PM

The only reason that I say that 100K hours is overkill is beacuse of the fact that I doubt I'd still be using the same pump/system

.

Dave · 07-20-2005, 05:41 AM

Is 100,000 hours overkill?

Well first I must say, I don't believe many people on this board know the current and future applications for the MAG style pump.

Wish I could say more, only be assure we have a customer that requires an 80,000 hour rating overall.

The real advantage of this bearing system comes in fluid that can be used, and the resistance to bio issues.

As an engineer, this finding is very promissing

EnJoY · 07-20-2005, 08:56 AM

I think it's great news Dave. I personally do not scoff at tech advancements, even if they do not directly impact me.

Dave · 07-20-2005, 10:06 AM

I should also state, this bearing system produces less noise at 6000 rpm, then current system at 2400 rpm.

Not that there is much noise to begin with, but still an interesting feature?

Cathar · 07-20-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

I should also state, this bearing system produces less noise at 6000 rpm, then current system at 2400 rpm.

Not that there is much noise to begin with, but still an interesting feature?

So are you going to offer pumps with revised electronics for higher pressure/flow (higher rpm)?

Would be interested in seeing a 3500rpm pump of the same design if the impeller is the same as the MAG and 2400rpm was the old rpm.

bobkoure · 07-20-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

I should also state, this bearing system produces less noise at 6000 rpm, then current system at 2400 rpm.

Not that there is much noise to begin with, but still an interesting feature?

Beyond "interesting".

Arivaldo · 07-21-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Would be interested in seeing a 3500rpm pump of the same design if the impeller is the same as the MAG and 2400rpm was the old rpm.

MAG impeller design seems to me like "state-of-art" on mechanical design: light weight, strong magnetic force, high performance and balance accuracy.

With that new saphire-saphire shaft-bearing i think we will get more flow X pressure at same noise and vibration.

congrats, Dave.

Dave · 07-22-2005, 06:44 AM

"So are you going to offer pumps with revised electronics for higher pressure/flow (higher rpm)?"

OEM only so far Stew, however we have a new impeller / magnetic / chamber combo that Dan thinks will be safe against "pump hackers", as he calls them.

The idea is that increasing port or chamber size will a decrease in flow / pressure with this configuration. He has asked me to test it, and I am still awaiting machine time.

As I am sure you know, higher pressure will be at a costs of lower zero head flow.

If I read correct, your only looking for 1 GPM on your new blocks?

Cathar · 07-22-2005, 07:04 AM

I just saw the 6000rpm thing, and wondered if that meant that there was going to be a higher specced model being released.

My interests in pumps extends to a "theoretical" one-size-fits-all scenarios "perfect" pump, which has the following characteristics:

6-7mH2O peak pressure head
13-14LPM peak flow rate
20W operational power draw under moderate pressure resistance
compact (fits within 10x10x10cm bounding box)
quiet (~25dBA or ~Papst4412FGL noise level at most)
12VDC power input.

Right now I'm using an Iwaki RD-30 @ 17v to approximate that.

This is not specific to my blocks. This was a set of specifications that was arrived at by carefully considering the lowest achievable temperatures across a broad range of waterblocks (highly restrictive to low restriction, and including additional GPU blocks) and radiators by factoring in the pumping power vs pumping heat dump into the liquid vs "typical" CPU heat load.

i.e. just an intense desire to see such a waterblock agnostic pump be made.

Dave · 07-22-2005, 09:37 AM

"fits within 10x10x10cm bounding box"

There no problem to meet your flow and head requirements, given this amount of space. A larger pump based off MAG design would exceed these numbers.

Send us a check for $XXXXX and we will tool one for you

**just banged on the calculator, can do this with a pump 2.7"x2.7"x1.75" at 16W

Etacovda · 07-22-2005, 11:02 AM

get onto it dave, times a wasting

BRiT · 07-22-2005, 12:14 PM

Yes, yes. Do get on it Dave.

AngryAlpaca · 07-22-2005, 12:20 PM

Well, get on it if it has the 100,000 hours...

flatline · 07-22-2005, 01:48 PM

"can do this with a pump 2.7"x2.7"x1.75" at 16W"

show me pls

Dave · 07-22-2005, 02:55 PM

Ok, Dave goes to work monday.....

Dave: Kevin can I spend 60-100K on tooling, so that the guys will be happy on pro forum?

Kevin: Dave go home and don't come to work drunk ever again!

Sorry guys, you get OEM left overs. Maybe an OEM will come along and ask for this, or I can convice AVT to make it.

07-19-2005, 11:04 AM	#1
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	100,000 hour pump! Today, was the first sampling of our 2500 hour test using our newly developed sapphire on sapphire bearing system (patent pending), for liquid cooling pumps. Running at 150% of typical load, todays results show a bearing life in the 100,000 hour range. Testing program will continue, as wear at this point is very difficult to measure, and we need more time and sampling for final predictions. If this technology is proven, we expect a major increase in pump warranty periods. Dave B C-Systems

07-19-2005, 11:56 AM	#2
nikhsub1 c00ling p00n Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: L.A. Posts: 758	Not do be an ass, but wasnt the first original C-Systems pump MOTOR rated for 50,000 MTBF? Even still there were plenty of problems with that pump. Interested to see full results of this new one though. __________________ :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-: E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home aNonForums :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:

07-20-2005, 08:56 AM	#13
EnJoY Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 50	I think it's great news Dave. I personally do not scoff at tech advancements, even if they do not directly impact me. __________________ \| Co-Founder & Administrator @ VλLVeForums.Com \| Site Director & Editor in Chief @ HL2Online.Com \| News Editor & Reviewer @ techPowerUp.Com \| AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice @ 2800MHz (10x280) 1.60v \| DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D - BIOS: 5/10-2FIX \| (2x512MB) Corsair PC2700 BH6 2-2-2-5 @ 265MHz (DDR530) 3.5v \| BBA X850 XT @ 635/640 - Omega 5.7 \| Watercooling on the way... The New 2x1GB/1x1GB OC Database!

07-22-2005, 09:37 AM	#20
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	"fits within 10x10x10cm bounding box" There no problem to meet your flow and head requirements, given this amount of space. A larger pump based off MAG design would exceed these numbers. Send us a check for $XXXXX and we will tool one for you *just banged on the calculator, can do this with a pump 2.7"x2.7"x1.75" at 16W Last edited by Dave; 07-22-2005 at 09:53 AM.*

07-22-2005, 11:02 AM	#21
Etacovda Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dunedin NZ Posts: 735	get onto it dave, times a wasting __________________ Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights.

07-19-2005, 02:10 PM	#3
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Yes, the first motor was. This is a rating of the whole pump. How has the experience with the original MAG been?

07-19-2005, 07:59 PM	#4
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	So far, it seems that users have had a very positive experience with the new mag, though I should note that I am yet to get one for myself. Having a 100,000hr rating would be great, even if it is overkill.

07-19-2005, 08:24 PM	#5
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	How is it possible to "overkill" on pump life expectancy?

07-19-2005, 09:01 PM	#6
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	I think that C-Systems have improved leaps and bounds, and have shown a positive effort to listen to users and improve their pumps. This can only be a good thing for all. While a 100000hr MTBF does not necessarily equate to a 100000hr life-span, it certainly spells volumes for the increased quality of manufacture.

07-19-2005, 09:24 PM	#7
csimon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Acadiana Posts: 99	thanks for your efforts dave. I think that the mag is a definite improvement over a great pump that had tremendous potential. I have not a single complaint about my mags. again thanks

07-19-2005, 09:37 PM	#8
kaotic504 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Orleans Posts: 86	i'm happy to hear this. reassures me that i've made a good investment. will there be a possible warranty extension then?

07-19-2005, 10:59 PM	#11
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	The only reason that I say that 100K hours is overkill is beacuse of the fact that I doubt I'd still be using the same pump/system .

07-20-2005, 05:41 AM	#12
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	Is 100,000 hours overkill? Well first I must say, I don't believe many people on this board know the current and future applications for the MAG style pump. Wish I could say more, only be assure we have a customer that requires an 80,000 hour rating overall. The real advantage of this bearing system comes in fluid that can be used, and the resistance to bio issues. As an engineer, this finding is very promissing

07-20-2005, 10:06 AM	#14
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	I should also state, this bearing system produces less noise at 6000 rpm, then current system at 2400 rpm. Not that there is much noise to begin with, but still an interesting feature?

07-22-2005, 06:44 AM	#18
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	"So are you going to offer pumps with revised electronics for higher pressure/flow (higher rpm)?" OEM only so far Stew, however we have a new impeller / magnetic / chamber combo that Dan thinks will be safe against "pump hackers", as he calls them. The idea is that increasing port or chamber size will a decrease in flow / pressure with this configuration. He has asked me to test it, and I am still awaiting machine time. As I am sure you know, higher pressure will be at a costs of lower zero head flow. If I read correct, your only looking for 1 GPM on your new blocks?

07-22-2005, 07:04 AM	#19
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	I just saw the 6000rpm thing, and wondered if that meant that there was going to be a higher specced model being released. My interests in pumps extends to a "theoretical" one-size-fits-all scenarios "perfect" pump, which has the following characteristics: 6-7mH2O peak pressure head 13-14LPM peak flow rate 20W operational power draw under moderate pressure resistance compact (fits within 10x10x10cm bounding box) quiet (~25dBA or ~Papst4412FGL noise level at most) 12VDC power input. Right now I'm using an Iwaki RD-30 @ 17v to approximate that. This is not specific to my blocks. This was a set of specifications that was arrived at by carefully considering the lowest achievable temperatures across a broad range of waterblocks (highly restrictive to low restriction, and including additional GPU blocks) and radiators by factoring in the pumping power vs pumping heat dump into the liquid vs "typical" CPU heat load. i.e. just an intense desire to see such a waterblock agnostic pump be made.

07-22-2005, 12:14 PM	#22
BRiT Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 39	Yes, yes. Do get on it Dave. __________________ --\|BRiT\| / WTF?! "That which does not kill you, makes you wish it did."

07-22-2005, 12:20 PM	#23
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Well, get on it if it has the 100,000 hours...

07-22-2005, 01:48 PM	#24
flatline Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: uk Posts: 109	"can do this with a pump 2.7"x2.7"x1.75" at 16W" show me pls __________________ "<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA

07-22-2005, 02:55 PM	#25
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	Ok, Dave goes to work monday..... Dave: Kevin can I spend 60-100K on tooling, so that the guys will be happy on pro forum? Kevin: Dave go home and don't come to work drunk ever again! Sorry guys, you get OEM left overs. Maybe an OEM will come along and ask for this, or I can convice AVT to make it.

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