What is the most active and best watercooling forum???

[Mathelo]

Where is the best watercooling discussion on the net?

Where do the watercooling gurus hangout? It doesn't seem to be here.

You can PM me if you prefer.

L

[Etacovda]

why would you post to say that, rather odd

if you want to be spoonfed what to buy, www.ocforums.com

If you want to learn, just use the search here - almost everything has been covered before.

[Skinny13]

I agree
procooling -ocau- XS are the best forums

[JamesAvery22]

Originally Posted by Mathelo

...
Where do the watercooling gurus hangout? It doesn't seem to be here.
...

lol wth?

While I agree this forum isnt the most active (my preference) the majority of users that do post here are pretty intelligent. Might want to watch what you post buddy.

Sorry we don't have hundreds of "omfgz my thermaltake kit roxors the bigone!1" threads.

[Mathelo]

Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

lol wth?

While I agree this forum isnt the most active (my preference) the majority of users that do post here are pretty intelligent. Might want to watch what you post buddy.

Sorry we don't have hundreds of "omfgz my thermaltake kit roxors the bigone!1" threads.

My apologies. Not meaning to insult anyone.

My impression was that the really knowledgeable water-cooling guys were here but the list sure seems sparse on activity. Just trying to find out where the action is. And no, I'm not interested in a list that has "hundreds of omfgz my thermaltake kit roxors the bigone!1."

I'm here to learn and I've dug through a lot of threads but that can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

L

[JamesAvery22]

Originally Posted by Mathelo

My apologies. Not meaning to insult anyone.

My impression was that the really knowledgeable water-cooling guys were here but the list sure seems sparse on activity. Just trying to find out where the action is. And no, I'm not interested in a list that has "hundreds of omfgz my thermaltake kit roxors the bigone!1."

I'm here to learn and I've dug through a lot of threads but that can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

L

I fully agree that there are some very long periods of time where there isnt much posting here at all. But you have to remember that most of the guys that REALLY know their stuff tend to have intensive jobs, families, lives outside of computers, etc. Unlike me who doesnt know much and sits in a cube all day writting documentation for code written weeks ago

Be sure there are a lot of experts here. But they aren't paid to chime in on every thread that pops up here.

[TaTs]

Originally Posted by Mathelo

I'm here to learn and I've dug through a lot of threads but that can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
L

I have to disagree here.
Almost everything that I learned about watercooling (not that I know anything ) I found here, or I was pointed to somewhere where I could find the information.

There are no "Watercooling 101" threads though. What I usually do is define a specific topic and start looking for that subject, you usually find lots of information. It's just a matter of having the patience to search and read. And of course for those things where you can't seem to find an answer, you can always post a question.

______
TaTs

[nexxo]

This forum is like an expert database or University library: if you are a beginner the sheer mass and depth of information can be rather overwhelming. ProCooling is for advanced users only.

If you are new to watercooling, Google for some 101 beginner's guides. However it is, in the end, a subject that requires some dedication of effort and study if you want to do it right. This ride is not for the weak.

[mikoto]

Here are a few excellent threads, rest assured these are the tip of the proverbial iceberg:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=6385

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825

A few of Incoherents posts have been really good (this will really test my memory): The ones I remember off hand are: 'New block(hysterical post)', 'a tim c/w number', and 'measuring cpu heat output'. <--ok, I cheated hehe

Look for longish threads where msv, 8-ball, Unregistered, Cathar, pHaestus, Les, KnightElite, Since87, Incoherent, among many others (sorry, too long to list everybody, and it is difficult to know who is even around anymore) have choosen to linger. You will usually find Procooling's best contributions in those.

In finding these old threads I have remembered many others. Look around a little more, I doubt seriously that you will find such a collection of knowledge anywhere else on the net in a public, 'non-industry' forum.

OCAU is really good but, in all honesty, the typical contribution there is a little 'lighter' in nature than the typical Procooling contribution. Cathar seems to drive most of the technical discussion I have seen there although, admittedly, I haven't spent that much time there.

I have yet to check out Robotech's site but he is doing some very nice testing so time will tell...

Overclockers.com is very light weight stuff, but good for what it is.

Well, I rarely write more than this for anybody so, see ya :P

[Mathelo]

Thanks all,

I suppose I should start over. I've been lurking here for several weeks. I've done a LOT of reading and research. I've posted a few questions. The discussions here with Cathar and all are the most informed I've seen on the net. They have been very helpful.

I'm at that point where I've got just about everything I need to make a go of it. I've bought the block, rad, etc. and have a few unanswered questions. Here is what I have:

My current setup includes the following:

- CPU is an AMD Athlon64 3200
- Plain vanilla graphics card – no fan
- OCZ 600W PowerStream PSU
- 3 hard drives – Raptor 74 GB/ WD250GB / Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 300GB
- Case: Antec SLK3800-B


I've purchased for WC:
- Storm G4
- PA160
- DD d5 PUMP
- Swissflow flow sensor
- TBalancer
- Nexus fan
- 7/16 Tygon tuping
- homebuilt res

My focus will be on OC but as quiet as possible. My main use is for digital photography and I'll be upgrading to a dual core in the next 6 to 12 months.

My remaining questions:
- I've waffled between internal / external wc. It only seems logical that a separate rad box is best. Dumping all the CPU heat back into the case is totally illogical to me. Yet many people do it. I realize it is a compromise but just how big a compromise is it?

Internal or external, I'm looking at the Antec P180 as a replacement case. While it is optimised for air, it is also very quiet.. There are 2 or 3 mounting choices with this box. You can see it here - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page4.html.

Install choices are:

1) Lower front chamber with internal venting

2) Lower chamber where the harddrives should go with external venting (maybe venting into top chamber)

3) Top of the case over the MB with internal venting

My first choice would be option 1 but option 2 keeps the hot air out of the main CPU chamber. Of course, this might be a small net improvement since the 3 hdd would have to go in there instead.

Final option is to stick with the case I have (Antec SLK3800-B) and build a separate rad box underneath.

Any help you guys can provide with some of these final decisions will be greatly appreciated.

L

[Long Haired Git]

I originally had an external rad box made from a TV/VCR portable unit thingo. However, its a real pain to move the thing around, or just to get into it. Now my goal is to move all the components to be inside or attached to the case so it can be moved easily.

[Mathelo]

Ease of maintenance and moving around are relatively important. So if I do an external RAD box, it will go under the case as a "box in box" sort of affair.

L

[jaydee]

Heh,
It isn't so much this forum is inactive. There just isn't much to post about for the people that do visit. As you see you got a pretty good responce today which even I am suprised.

The question is what do people want to see? What should the staff be working on here? What would get your attention?

Anyway to your last post I would say build a rad box. Especially if quiet is a goal with overclocking. Your going to want the coolest air possible going through that rad.

[JWFokker]

I would go with an externally mounted radiator, as I'm a big proponent of using the largest radiator possible, which precludes it from fitting inside a case. However, if you did use one that could fit inside a case, there's no real detriment to putting the heat back into the case. Your CPU temperature will be pretty much unaffected by the case temperature because you're no longer cooling it with air from inside the case. Put the radiator at the intake and you'll always have fresh air passing through the radiator, which is the only really important aspect of choosing where you mount the radiator. Sure, your PSU and mobo mosfets and video card might be a couple degrees warmer. But it's not as if your PSU and mosfets are that temperature sensitive. And these days it's not really worth it to overclock the video card, so I don't see that as a concern either.

That said, I have a 13"x13" radiator sitting on the floor below my case, with the side panel off and tubing running between the two. The only tangible benefit to having an external radiator is the option to use a larger one. And I suppose ease of access as well.

Oh, and as for forum inactivity, it's because there's just not that much going on in the watercooling industry right now. The biggest news as of late was the Storm design being produced by Swiftech, which isn't really big news considering it's not the first time Cathar's designs have been purchased (or ripped off) by a waterblock manufacturer. It is nice though, knowing that I can buy a replacement Storm from Swiftech for my original G4 should I choose to, and it'll cost me less. Barring some revolutionary development, waterblock design has reached the point of diminishing returns it seems. In fact, just a couple weeks ago, I was thinking to myself, "When is a new waterblock going to come out? I need something to satiate my upgraditis. And it's been nigh on forever since I last bought new watercooling hardware." I really hope something important happens soon, or I might start thinking crazy thoughts, like going with a phase change system. Hell, I'm already eyeing up peltiers, and it's disturbing. Why do I need more cooling when I could just upgrade my hardware? I don't know.

[brucoman]

Originally Posted by Mathelo

Internal or external, I'm looking at the Antec P180 as a replacement case. While it is optimised for air, it is also very quiet.. There are 2 or 3 mounting choices with this box. You can see it here - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page4.html.

Install choices are:

1) Lower front chamber with internal venting

2) Lower chamber where the harddrives should go with external venting (maybe venting into top chamber)

3) Top of the case over the MB with internal venting


L

Any of these will be a tight go with the P180/PA160.1 (I have a PA160.1 here waiting for delivery of the P180 case) as this case is really made for air (baffles & all) but I can let you know which options are doable without using a dremel/sawzall on it.

[Mathelo]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Heh,
It isn't so much this forum is inactive. There just isn't much to post about for the people that do visit. As you see you got a pretty good responce today which even I am suprised.

The question is what do people want to see? What should the staff be working on here? What would get your attention?

Anyway to your last post I would say build a rad box. Especially if quiet is a goal with overclocking. Your going to want the coolest air possible going through that rad.

What would get my attention? I need to think about that a bit when I'm fresher but in general, given the great watercooling minds that hangout here, reading about optimal setups that push the limits of:

- OC
- WC
- Quiet!!!

I'm into stealth. Not bling!

Thanks for the input on the rad.

L

[Mathelo]

Originally Posted by JWFokker

I would go with an externally mounted radiator, as I'm a big proponent of using the largest radiator possible, which precludes it from fitting inside a case. However, if you did use one that could fit inside a case, there's no real detriment to putting the heat back into the case. Your CPU temperature will be pretty much unaffected by the case temperature because you're no longer cooling it with air from inside the case. Put the radiator at the intake and you'll always have fresh air passing through the radiator, which is the only really important aspect of choosing where you mount the radiator. Sure, your PSU and mobo mosfets and video card might be a couple degrees warmer. But it's not as if your PSU and mosfets are that temperature sensitive. And these days it's not really worth it to overclock the video card, so I don't see that as a concern either.

That said, I have a 13"x13" radiator sitting on the floor below my case, with the side panel off and tubing running between the two. The only tangible benefit to having an external radiator is the option to use a larger one. And I suppose ease of access as well.

Oh, and as for forum inactivity, it's because there's just not that much going on in the watercooling industry right now. The biggest news as of late was the Storm design being produced by Swiftech, which isn't really big news considering it's not the first time Cathar's designs have been purchased (or ripped off) by a waterblock manufacturer. It is nice though, knowing that I can buy a replacement Storm from Swiftech for my original G4 should I choose to, and it'll cost me less. Barring some revolutionary development, waterblock design has reached the point of diminishing returns it seems. In fact, just a couple weeks ago, I was thinking to myself, "When is a new waterblock going to come out? I need something to satiate my upgraditis. And it's been nigh on forever since I last bought new watercooling hardware." I really hope something important happens soon, or I might start thinking crazy thoughts, like going with a phase change system. Hell, I'm already eyeing up peltiers, and it's disturbing. Why do I need more cooling when I could just upgrade my hardware? I don't know.

JW,

Thanks for the input. Seems that in general for maximum quiet and cooling, external is better. Has anyone measured the impact of an internal / verses external rad on temps?

L

[Mathelo]

Originally Posted by brucoman

Any of these will be a tight go with the P180/PA160.1 (I have a PA160.1 here waiting for delivery of the P180 case) as this case is really made for air (baffles & all) but I can let you know which options are doable without using a dremel/sawzall on it.

I've not ordered the case yet but I have the PA160. When are you expecting the case?

It would be great to get your initial feedback before I make this purchase.

L

[brucoman]

Originally Posted by Mathelo

I've not ordered the case yet but I have the PA160. When are you expecting the case?

It would be great to get your initial feedback before I make this purchase.

L

sadly, I buy thru my corporate supplier & they are being arsehats...should be in 3 days

edit: will have in my hands Friday

[brucoman]

trying to squeeze a PA160.1 into a Antec P180 case is done... only place to mount internally is between the 3 5" bays (remove the lower single 5") & the divider shelf (remove the upper 3" bay cage AND slide brackets for it)

also removed the lower baffle fan bracket (pump goes into there) & used a slim 120mm fan between 3" cage & case front

camera has been borrowed, will try late next week for pics

[Mathelo]

Originally Posted by brucoman

trying to squeeze a PA160.1 into a Antec P180 case is done... only place to mount internally is between the 3 5" bays (remove the lower single 5") & the divider shelf (remove the upper 3" bay cage AND slide brackets for it)

also removed the lower baffle fan bracket (pump goes into there) & used a slim 120mm fan between 3" cage & case front

camera has been borrowed, will try late next week for pics

Brucoman,

Thanks for the report. That's what I hoped for looking at pictures of the case. Good to hear that it works. I look forward to seeing pictures of your case with the PA160.1 installed.

Is the lower fan bracket screwed or riveted? You didn't have to cut it, did you?

How do you like this case overall?

L

[brucoman]

case is great, but not a great case for tweaking
lower bracket is riveted, like anything that is not slid out
still need to open air intake grills on case front for more air

[Brians256]

I just looked at the P180 case today and was not impressed for it's watercooling potential. The whole value add of the P180 is it's ability to make the most of air cooling while maintaining quiet.

What I see as ideal would be a separate path for air cooling the radiator such as the bottom plenum used to channel air over the HDs and out the PSU (yes, it's on the bottom). Essentially, it is the same thing as a radbox, but integrated.

The P180 only has space for a decently sized internal radiator in the main chamber, which means that the CPU heat is being transferred 6" away to a large heatsink (the rad) and then wafted around the motherboard before being exhausted. Is that significantly quieter than a massive heatsink like the Zalman 7700Cu? At that point, you are watercooling not for quiet, but for overclocking (which I highly endorse).

[brucoman]

ah, but the goal is quiet AND a massive oc!

BTW the lower chamber is too small to even get a 120mm rad in, so I put the drives/pump/ps in it to isolate the heat

[Mathelo]

Originally Posted by Brians256

I just looked at the P180 case today and was not impressed for it's watercooling potential. The whole value add of the P180 is it's ability to make the most of air cooling while maintaining quiet.

What I see as ideal would be a separate path for air cooling the radiator such as the bottom plenum used to channel air over the HDs and out the PSU (yes, it's on the bottom). Essentially, it is the same thing as a radbox, but integrated.

The P180 only has space for a decently sized internal radiator in the main chamber, which means that the CPU heat is being transferred 6" away to a large heatsink (the rad) and then wafted around the motherboard before being exhausted. Is that significantly quieter than a massive heatsink like the Zalman 7700Cu? At that point, you are watercooling not for quiet, but for overclocking (which I highly endorse).

Brian,

Is your point that to get both quiet and decent OC, the heat from the radiator needs to be in a different place than the components being cooled - the CPU, etc.?

This makes sense to me. Seems to me that having the rad exhaust into the same chamber as the CPU will not give materially better results than a good ac setup and that I'd be throwing a lot of oc / silence potential away by going this way. I understand the desire for packaging everything together but that could be done much as you noted with the bottom plenum in the P180 or as an add on to an existing box. I've been waffling on the approach I'm going to take but I've pretty much decided to go the external rad approach with a wind tunnel chamber under the PC case for the rad. I may still get the P180 - seems to be a great case and very quiet for the hdds and other things that go bump in the night - but my current case is perfectly servicable - Antek SLK3800-B.

L