Best Radiator/Core Out Today?

[XyBeRWaReZ]

I've been out of the loop for a lil bit now and when I last heard that using a modified Bonneville heater core is the best watercooling. I'm wondering if that has changed since then.
At that time there was a guy that was modifying them for public sale but I tried contacting him and never got a response. Then I heard that there was a company that sold pretty much the same thing but not as high quality.
So has any other company tackeled the feat or has someone come up with the best core out there in terms of performance?

[ricecrispi]

I would like to mimic some here that would answer this question the best.

What is your definition for "Best Radiator"
least amount of noise.
noise/performance ratio.
Pure performance.
Flow rates.
Cost and performance

I would say bonneville isn't best perform anymore but close. There is a 199 HC variant that is better. Wider but shorter So it fits cases a little better.
Pure performance. Weapon quad core or new black ICE GT extreme 120.4. The cost number of fans ($10x8 for fans), noise, dust, and size isn't "Best"
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=118507
http://translate.google.com/translat...&hl=en&ie=UTF8
Weapon quad monster Rad might be it. 4x120 footprint and wont fit inside nearly any case.
http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?...=2&prevstart=0
PA thermochill series (120.3) has a very good performance /noise ratio. In my definition it is the best.

Edit Links

[XyBeRWaReZ]

That's right! It was Weapon heater cores that were the best performing units out a lil while ago. I guess for the average system his is still best and probably one of the nicest if not the nicest looking heater core out there. Unfortuantely it's really hard to contact him to see if he's still producing them with his custom built shrouds.
I guess his was the best considering dual 120mm fans. But I guess it's what your needs are.

Dual 120mm - Weapon's heater core w/shroud. ( I know there was some other company out there trying to duplicate it, I'll find the link and post if when I do unless someone else has it already and can do me the favor )

Triple 120mm - Black Ice Xtreme III

Quad 120mm - Black Ice GT Extreme 120.4

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[ricecrispi]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=77260
Pa matches mcr-32 with only two fans!!

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
Coolingworks 32T beats Black ICE extreme and GT except using panaflo 120x38M at 12V. Very loud if you are using 3 fans so not an option.

The Black Ice GTX will be worse with the extra thickness. It already is flow restrictive for air and liquid. Cost $125 for 120x3 and will perform equal or less than PA120.3. Since the GTX is thicker might need more fans or higher CFM and LOUDER fans! Yikes!! 120.4 will need 4 panaflos M @12V and maybe more fans and throw in 4 fan filters for $5 a pop. Talk about a money pit and growing deaf in the ears.

How is it going to fit anywhere? It hardly fits a CM stacker for godsakes which is an elephant of a case. My CM scares away little kids when the UV lights turn on and roars to life. A 120.4 GTX with 8 fans would cause you to go deaf before they can land on their feet while jumping in fear

Buy 2 CW 22T or MCR 22 and set the 4 fans at 5 V, call it a day, and save $100-$150.

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by XyBeRWaReZ

Unfortuantely it's really hard to contact him to see if he's still producing them with his custom built shrouds.

IIRC, Weapon recently posted on the Hardforums that he'd be taking a short break. I'd expect him to reappear soon.

The commercial version you remember may be Voyeurmods. I've never dealt with them, but the prices look good.

Finally, a note for the noise conscious. Don't think you have to fully populate a big rad with fans. Using large frontal area to reduce air velocity is a great noise reducer, and a little ducting work would allow 2 fans on an oversized rad. With the right fans at 5V, that's near-silent.

[ricecrispi]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

IIRC, Weapon recently posted on the Hardforums that he'd be taking a short break. I'd expect him to reappear soon.

The commercial version you remember may be Voyeurmods. I've never dealt with them, but the prices look good.

Finally, a note for the noise conscious. Don't think you have to fully populate a big rad with fans. Using large frontal area to reduce air velocity is a great noise reducer, and a little ducting work would allow 2 fans on an oversized rad. With the right fans at 5V, that's near-silent.

I heard the same thing about weapon but his break seems longer than sooner. I love the shrouds he makes.

Also the weapon 120x4 core wont fit in any case and is just two bonnevile cores stuck together. Better off trying to fit two bonneville cores in the loop than single 120x4. Requires external setup or custom enclosure for that monster.
The voyeur mods is a better choice because of the dimensions it can be mounted on the side of a case. Could fit inside some serve size cases or outside the case.

I agree you can duct and run fans at low speeds for rads with low FPI or heater cores. Not so with Black Ice GT or GTX. I have a HC from Jaguar xj6 and is exactly like GTX. FPI is very high and it needs panaflos H series to work or 6 fans. Has about the same thickness extreme series rad. Not as thick as bonneville HC and about 115M width/110MM core size. This rad has two set of fins on the core, on both sides with the inside with no fins.
http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/7c/11/1b_1_b.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jagua...spagenameZWD1V
Test done by Roscal back up that evidence.

Plus Bill has a white paper proving WC have slightly lower performance than modern rads like Coolingworks 12T 18fpi which gets outperformed by newer CW rad at low and medium CFM fans and probably PA rads as well.

[XyBeRWaReZ]

Awesome! Thanks for the excellent information you guys listed. I do have a couple more questions though from new info I just read about. I'm pretty sure some of you have heard of water coils, usually used in industrial machines and also as condensers in A/C's.

Well is this better than a heater core from a vehicle or the same thing? I read that there is a difference from this article but I'm not sure if I'm interperting it correctly.

A More Efficienct Heater Core


My other questions is regarding the thermal dissipation of heat or cold through copper core or alumium core vs. the weight issue. I know that aluminum is very lightweight and is second best to thermal transfer next to copper but is it really worth it considering the weight difference if weight really is an issue? Or in this case that there isn't enough copper that it really doesn't make a difference to notice?
Actually would would be nice would be a comparison of weight of each metal in equal volumes, or in my case I'm planning to use 3/8"OD, 1/4"ID copper tubing, also the comparsion what the differences in performance of each tubing in the exact size but just different material.

Sorry if I sound kinda mixed up. It's pretty late and my brain has been racked up by all kinds of theories.

[ricecrispi]

http://swiftnets.com/Technical/Asses...erformance.pdf
Awesome article by Bill.

Don't use condensers. Design for use in compressors
There is a reason why companies don't make these rads for WCing. http://procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=78.

Copper core is very weak, harder to works with, and more expensive so work, weights more,and doesn't last as long and copper rad and AL block combo is why it is slowly disappearing from automitive industry. The weight issues is a problem with cars.
Plus copper fins feel like paper. Touch fins with your fingers or hold the core in that area and it crushes or bends. Tubes also bend easily and the weak copper fins don't offer and support.

[XyBeRWaReZ]

Damn you guys are good! Thanks ricecrispi for that info it helps me out a ton. But I'm wondering how all these different types of unit handle ice cold water?

See I'm not actually using it for watercooling a system but to cool down the internal temperate of the case. The system is already water cooled btw. I just want to eek out every last inch of performance in my rig and I don't mind investing that lil extra to get an extra core and pump. It's only really a one time purchase anyway unless of some time of major disaster, but that is highly unlikely.

So it'll be used to run ice cold water through and have fans pushing air through it to push in ice cold air.
Is it really a considerable difference when transfering ice cold water through than not water from a waterblock?
I'm not exactly sure of the change in thermal dynamics of something like this would be.

[ricecrispi]

Originally Posted by XyBeRWaReZ

But I'm wondering how all these different types of unit handle ice cold water?

See I'm not actually using it for watercooling a system but to cool down the internal temperate of the case.

So it'll be used to run ice cold water through and have fans pushing air through it to push in ice cold air. Is it really a considerable difference when transfering ice cold water through than not water from a waterblock?I'm not exactly sure of the change in thermal dynamics of something like this would be.

What is your definition for "Best Radiator"

Describe the system in more detail. Where is the cold ice water running from?
Are you building something, modifying it, or trying to build like an AC unit.

[XyBeRWaReZ]

Well actually before I can ask for that opinion, I have another part to throw into this puzzle. For heater cores to work efficiently, there has to be a signifigant amount of pressure right? Well in my design I don't belive that there will be enough pressure created by the fans I plan to use.
So with that now known, what difference in effiiency does it make with lower pressure and lower CFM fans? Is it better to go with a radiator or heater core? I've read that in such cases, radiators turn out better results. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ice water will be run from a reservoir with either an inline or submersible pump in a closed loop outside of the computer case for now. I'm not trying to really build an A/C unit as it's truly very complex and not worth using just to cool the case and is more well suited to phase change cooling the CPU itself. Actually if I wanted I could turn that bad boy around and cool my butt down when it gets hot where I am in the summer, so it's sort of a 2 fer.
I'm looking for the most efficient exchanger, and in my case instead of using it in the typical sense of removing heat, I want to push ice cold water through so I can reap the cooling effects.

Hopefully this explains it. I sorta tend to go on and on, hehe.

[RalphW]

The quad heater core you mentioned is actually from a Ford truck and goes by the Fedco # 2-192. They are pricey and hard to find these days.
Some info here:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...15&postcount=6

About shrouds for this core:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/show...21&postcount=1

[ricecrispi]

XyBeRWaReZ

So you are adding ice water or chilled water into the loop at the res. Purpose is to lower water temps but the secondary purpose is also try to lower the ambient temps.

Becareful. You will build condensation on the tubing and waterblocks. I would pick the radiator for this for this but i not an expert or have little past information to back up this suggestion.

http://procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=78.

[XyBeRWaReZ]

Sorry, I must have not made it clear. It's not going to be in the regular CPU waterblock loop. This is a seperate loop all together. Actually I'm not sure yet but the only thing inside the case may be the core or radiator, depending on what would be better with a low CFM and low pressure fan system. I need the fans to be low CFM and pressure in my situation otherwise I'd slap on a big ol 120mm. It's a personal preference thing.
So condensation won't be a factor, or at least not regarding frying my system. That'll be taken care of one way or another.

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by RalphW

The quad heater core you mentioned is actually from a Ford truck and goes by the Fedco # 2-192.

After poking around various HC references, I think it's more likely the 2-308 (aka 399126) from a '70s Dodge B van. They're $55 at Autozone, so Voyeur's price for a modded unit still looks good.

[ricecrispi]

A low FPI rad would work best with low pressure and low CFM fan.

Swiftech MCR, coolingworks, and Thermochill would be optimal.

As for which one would be most effective. Its hard to say but I'm assuming the rad that is most efficient at disspating heat will work the best. l

[RalphW]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

After poking around various HC references, I think it's more likely the 2-308 (aka 399126) from a '70s Dodge B van. They're $55 at Autozone, so Voyeur's price for a modded unit still looks good.

I was referring to the "monstercore" that was being sold on various forums.

CUC GDI FEDCO ARS 4 SEASONS MURRAY STANT EVERCO
9030 399030 2-192 9030 94722 279322 90300 2364

I'm not sure about Voyeurmods version but it is definitely a different heatercore.

[Pyrotechnic]

I remember back when that site with all the heater listings and pics was around, I had looked at just about everyone of them on there trying to find the idea dimensions for my case. I ran across one that was from the rear of a dogde van/minivan I think, and if I remember right, there was enough room to fit FOUR 120MM fans on it. Talk about a monster. Is this the one ya'll are talking about ?

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by Pyrotechnic

I remember back when that site with all the heater listings and pics was around...

It's still available and a great resource for cheapskate WCers. Click

[bigben2k]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

It's still available and a great resource for cheapskate WCers. Click