Ram chilling

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 12:18 AM

Has anybody gotten a higher overclock and faster timings in their rams by cooling them with a peltier? I'm thinking of making one and the rough design is here.
http://thehand78.tripod.com/b1.htm
Now, I was thinking of using aluminum plates and waterblock to reduce the weight. The 2 direct coldplates on the ram are 2 thin sheets of aluminum. Is aluminum harder or softer than copper?
The 2 sheets are either soldered onto the indirect cold plate or shown on the other diagram each is bent and then screwed onto the indirect cold plate with AS3 in between. Which method would give better thermal interface you think?
Another question thats off topic, is the core of the Radeon 8500 the same height as the rams?

DigitalChaos · 03-27-2002, 12:40 AM

just use the heat spreaders with a fan.
if you need something more you could just water cool.... but a pelt, i would imagine things would start to get messed up when cooling ram that much.

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 12:50 AM

But I'll get a bigger overclock with a pelt would I not?

Haddy · 03-27-2002, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitalChaos
just use the heat spreaders with a fan.
if you need something more you could just water cool.... but a pelt, i would imagine things would start to get messed up when cooling ram that much.

its been shown that the hs with the fan on it doesnt do any better then the one without it...there wuz like a 1c difference....

Cyco-Dude · 03-27-2002, 02:22 AM

the GPU is taller than the RAM chips.
if you're doing this to a R8500, i dont think id bother. they dont benefit from OCing as much as a GF would...

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 02:55 AM

No, this is for normal rams.

Brad · 03-27-2002, 03:30 AM

it would be easier and cheaper to buy some mushkin/corsair/crucial, and run it at 200

OcPunK · 03-27-2002, 04:54 AM

hmmm pelt on ram chips good way to make snow cones! Yum

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 05:22 AM

But Brad, wheres the fun in that? I'm also trying this because it hasn't been done before and I wanna see if it can be implemented well.
Can you tell me which way of attaching the plates would be better? Also, which is softer, aluminum or copper?

Brad · 03-27-2002, 05:43 AM

yeah it is new ground for sure.

I'd probably do the blocks about 5mm oversized, and use screws to hold the two blocks together. Copper is softer, but I'd use Al cause it's much lighter

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 06:10 AM

Actually I meant which of the way of attaching the 2 plates to the indirect cold plate is better? Soldered or bent and screwed with AS 3 in between which has a higher surface contact?
http://thehand78.tripod.com/b1.htm

DigitalChaos · 03-27-2002, 06:44 AM

pelt on video ram = bad
so therefore i say pelt on normal ram =bad

like i said... if you have to, just use ambient cooled water.

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 07:11 AM

Why pelt on video ram=bad?

DigitalChaos · 03-27-2002, 08:38 AM

ive heard that it makes things start locking up. maybe someone else can comment on that.

superart · 03-27-2002, 10:05 AM

you can look at my thread about watercooling RAM, but i think i have to side with the others, its just not good. Getting those RAM sincs is good though.

Miss_Man · 03-27-2002, 01:16 PM

Its not just watercooling ram, its chilling rams way below ambient. Rams don't put out so much heat so I would not waste my efforts straight watercooling them. Only chilling I think would gain some significant overclock.

Brad · 03-27-2002, 01:19 PM

I think condensation is his problem, although the AS3 leaking onto the contacts on the side of the ram might be an issue too

decodeddiesel · 03-27-2002, 01:25 PM

Rams? I saw some Rams during my last drive through the Rockies. Personally it would be a lot less expensive, and much safer just to get some Crucial/Mushkin/Corsair 2700 and get to 200/400 FSB.

Mr Evil · 03-27-2002, 05:36 PM

I thought all you people here were hardcore? I say go for it! RAM is limited by temperature just the same as any other semiconductor device: Maximum frequency potential increases exponentialy as temperature decreases. Condensation would be a problem though.

I have seen a few super-cooled RAM articles in the past on some Japanese web sites, but I don't seem to have any links. Since I can't read Japanese I also don't know how succesful they were.

Copper is slightly harder than copper, but the oxide that forms on aluminium is very hard and offsets the softer metal.

The best configuration for the two sheets would be bent and soldered. If you want to solder you would have to use copper because aluminium is almost impossible to solder to.

DigitalChaos · 03-27-2002, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Evil
I thought all you people here were hardcore? I say go for it!

we may not water cool x-boxes... but hey =)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Evil
RAM is limited by temperature just the same as any other semiconductor device: Maximum frequency potential increases exponentialy as temperature decreases. Condensation would be a problem though.

then why wouldnt water cooling be beneficial?

Mr Evil · 03-27-2002, 08:37 PM

Because SDRAM is low power: As long as you have good airflow it will not be more than a couple of degrees above ambient, so the best watercooling could do no more than lower the temperature by a degree or two, which is not enough to make a significant difference to speed.

Marco · 03-27-2002, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Evil
Because SDRAM is low power: As long as you have good airflow it will not be more than a couple of degrees above ambient, so the best watercooling could do no more than lower the temperature by a degree or two, which is not enough to make a significant difference to speed.

As frequencies push up you can expect RAM to start getting hotter and hotter, so you might as well start considering cooling schemes for it. Look how far processors have progressed, how fast.

Brad · 03-28-2002, 01:14 AM

I've seen ddr ram from a gf3 ti200 get toasty, but I've never had normal mobo ram get anything much above ambient.

Miss_Man · 03-28-2002, 04:17 AM

So soldering aluminum is out? So how thin a sheet of copper would be just slightly bendable when I screw two together?

DigitalChaos · 03-28-2002, 02:26 PM

well, i think we would really need to know what kind of ram is being used. sdram.. ddr... rambus.... ???

03-27-2002, 12:18 AM	#1
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	Ram chilling Has anybody gotten a higher overclock and faster timings in their rams by cooling them with a peltier? I'm thinking of making one and the rough design is here. http://thehand78.tripod.com/b1.htm Now, I was thinking of using aluminum plates and waterblock to reduce the weight. The 2 direct coldplates on the ram are 2 thin sheets of aluminum. Is aluminum harder or softer than copper? The 2 sheets are either soldered onto the indirect cold plate or shown on the other diagram each is bent and then screwed onto the indirect cold plate with AS3 in between. Which method would give better thermal interface you think? Another question thats off topic, is the core of the Radeon 8500 the same height as the rams?

03-27-2002, 03:30 AM	#7
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	it would be easier and cheaper to buy some mushkin/corsair/crucial, and run it at 200 __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-27-2002, 04:54 AM	#8
OcPunK Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under ground cave in PA to keep PCs cool! Posts: 125	hmmm pelt on ram chips good way to make snow cones! Yum __________________ www.1337info.com

03-27-2002, 05:43 AM	#10
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah it is new ground for sure. I'd probably do the blocks about 5mm oversized, and use screws to hold the two blocks together. Copper is softer, but I'd use Al cause it's much lighter __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-27-2002, 10:05 AM	#15
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	you can look at my thread about watercooling RAM, but i think i have to side with the others, its just not good. Getting those RAM sincs is good though. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

03-27-2002, 12:40 AM	#2
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	just use the heat spreaders with a fan. if you need something more you could just water cool.... but a pelt, i would imagine things would start to get messed up when cooling ram that much.

03-27-2002, 12:50 AM	#3
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	But I'll get a bigger overclock with a pelt would I not?

03-27-2002, 02:22 AM	#5
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	the GPU is taller than the RAM chips. if you're doing this to a R8500, i dont think id bother. they dont benefit from OCing as much as a GF would...

03-27-2002, 02:55 AM	#6
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	No, this is for normal rams.

03-27-2002, 05:22 AM	#9
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	But Brad, wheres the fun in that? I'm also trying this because it hasn't been done before and I wanna see if it can be implemented well. Can you tell me which way of attaching the plates would be better? Also, which is softer, aluminum or copper?

03-27-2002, 06:10 AM	#11
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	Actually I meant which of the way of attaching the 2 plates to the indirect cold plate is better? Soldered or bent and screwed with AS 3 in between which has a higher surface contact? http://thehand78.tripod.com/b1.htm

03-27-2002, 06:44 AM	#12
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	pelt on video ram = bad so therefore i say pelt on normal ram =bad like i said... if you have to, just use ambient cooled water.

03-27-2002, 07:11 AM	#13
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	Why pelt on video ram=bad?

03-27-2002, 08:38 AM	#14
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	ive heard that it makes things start locking up. maybe someone else can comment on that.

03-27-2002, 01:16 PM	#16
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	Its not just watercooling ram, its chilling rams way below ambient. Rams don't put out so much heat so I would not waste my efforts straight watercooling them. Only chilling I think would gain some significant overclock.

03-27-2002, 01:19 PM	#17
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I think condensation is his problem, although the AS3 leaking onto the contacts on the side of the ram might be an issue too __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-27-2002, 01:25 PM	#18
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	Rams? I saw some Rams during my last drive through the Rockies. Personally it would be a lot less expensive, and much safer just to get some Crucial/Mushkin/Corsair 2700 and get to 200/400 FSB. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

03-27-2002, 05:36 PM	#19
Mr Evil Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 43	I thought all you people here were hardcore? I say go for it! RAM is limited by temperature just the same as any other semiconductor device: Maximum frequency potential increases exponentialy as temperature decreases. Condensation would be a problem though. I have seen a few super-cooled RAM articles in the past on some Japanese web sites, but I don't seem to have any links. Since I can't read Japanese I also don't know how succesful they were. Copper is slightly harder than copper, but the oxide that forms on aluminium is very hard and offsets the softer metal. The best configuration for the two sheets would be bent and soldered. If you want to solder you would have to use copper because aluminium is almost impossible to solder to. __________________ http://come.to/MrEvil http://www.cheese83.freeserve.co.uk/athlon.htm

03-27-2002, 08:37 PM	#21
Mr Evil Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 43	Because SDRAM is low power: As long as you have good airflow it will not be more than a couple of degrees above ambient, so the best watercooling could do no more than lower the temperature by a degree or two, which is not enough to make a significant difference to speed. __________________ http://come.to/MrEvil http://www.cheese83.freeserve.co.uk/athlon.htm

03-28-2002, 01:14 AM	#23
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I've seen ddr ram from a gf3 ti200 get toasty, but I've never had normal mobo ram get anything much above ambient. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-28-2002, 04:17 AM	#24
Miss_Man Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 151	So soldering aluminum is out? So how thin a sheet of copper would be just slightly bendable when I screw two together?

03-28-2002, 02:26 PM	#25
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	well, i think we would really need to know what kind of ram is being used. sdram.. ddr... rambus.... ???

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