A Call to any engineers out there! We need a real retention Mech!

[Joe]

Ok people... I am doing the waterblock roundup right now.. and I am fast finding NO ONE.. and I mean absolutely NO ONE has come up with a REAL retention mechinism for waterblocks! I am talking, an Intelegent design, something that you just lock the block into and its ready to go. No tweaking 4 bolts, or risking smashing your core with the one center screw bolt... a REAL latch.

I want to see someone succeed where EVERY waterblock mfg to date has failed. I want a stupid proof, repeatable (meaning every time you put a block in it, it works, perfect tension, prefect mating), and effective.

What I am thinking is something VERY close to what the Pentium 4 concept is. But make this for the ATX 2.03 Socket A holes. Have a standard set of receptical locks on either side of the core and then have different lock plates to go over the blocks or for the blocks themself lock into those.

I mean the industry is killing for this... Build a standard, and if its good, I think you will see everyone fall inline sooner or later. ( hell make it able to be used in HSF's - even better!)

Design it, test it, and build a standard. This is the single biggest thing that waterblocks has lacked and kept it from becoming truely main stream. An Open standard for waterblock retention design. Eliminate the hundreds of half assed attempts that have been done.

The existing crop of socket 370/socket A clips are either asking for over or improper tension on the core.

So this is my personal request to any of the smart folks in this field. ProCooling will review, test and back any ideas that have some merit and will help in any way we can with this. Waterblock technology and design is top notch, but our retention mech's are just SAD and I want to help anyone out there with the talents to design something like this.

(excuse the crap spelling.. its 1:30am and I am too lazy to spell check this )

[Kevin]

I agree.
You go girl!

[newhit]

Great idea but will anybody take it up? As an end user my swiftech does me ok (even tho, as you say, the bolts setup is tricky). To spend more dosh on another solely because the fitting is easier might not draw me to the purchase.

[gmat]

Maybe a clip & spring combined with DDmaze2-like mechanism would do the trick. The latest Alpha has something like this i heard.

[OcPunK]

Just to think this could have saved my duron 600@1.104Ghz life!

[clone]

HELL YA
about time some one said some thing i my self have killed 2 lugs

[phreenet]

All in favor of superglue?


This is my first post in the forum since the opening of the chat center, humm, its odd not getting instant feed back

[Joe]

hey this reply was instant... as instant as I saw your post hehehe

[nakchak]

i think that a combination of the thumbscrew and the 4 screws method is a good bet. have the 4 screws with a plate and springs to apply pressure allover block and a thumbscrew to applu the pressure over the center of the chip

when i build it will see how it works

nak.

[h314]

http://geocities.com/thelightsguy/waterblock_clamp.gif

Well I thought of this when I first read the post. Took me about 2 minutes to do the gif in Fireworks. Well the way I think of it you can use a regular heatsink clip. Then you use a pvc tube and put a spring in it. This goes in the middle of the clip. The you use the screw to tighten the waterblock. If the clip is large enough the screw and the pvc pipe with the spring in it can be as large as the cpu core so the weight of the block is right on top of the core. I don't use water cooling because I don't have the money for it but it's an idea. I hope this can help someone.

John

[imagex]

This is how i setup mine ,it is holding a 2x3x1 water block ,120 watt pelt and a 2x3x1/4 inch cold plate. I used springs under the wing nuts to ensure even tq. http://www.geocities.com/jamestune_2000/coldstuff.html

[Kanima]

how about this , for an idea, take the 4 hole approach, use metal post, have the notches in the post, like 10 or 20 on each post, then you push the block down, it locks in the notchs, then you flip a latch or something and the block releases.

[DarkEdge]

Yeah a good clip design wwould be nice. The likely hood of it happening would be rare though. I honestly have had no problem with the 4 bolts though. Just have to tighten them down at opposite ends in a diagnal manner. Works fine.

[sunblade]

Well, this guy at overclockers used a similar system to the P4 mounts on a Socket A for his HSFs, but improved upon it:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips562

But for waterblocks, what about puting the 4 bolts in so the head is on the back of the motherboard. Then put a nut on the top of the motherboard to hold the bolts in. A waterblock could then slide on and off without having to remove the bolts and motherboard. I suppose you could use a hold down plate with a nut on top, or maybe work a spring in there:

NUT                     NUT
 /                       /
 \                       \  <- SPRINGS
 /                       /
___________________________ <- HOLD DOWN
 -------------------------
 |      WATERBLOCK       |  <- BOLT THRU WATERBLOCK
 -------------------------
NUT  [=====CPU=======]  NUT
=========================== <- MOTHERBOARD
[_]                     [_] <- BOLT HEADS

I hope that's not a confusing diagram above

[GuyBFF]

That's exactly how the current Danger Den water blocks are held down. Plastic rod with a nut on each side of the motherboard, waterblock, spring , nut. To remove, remove the nut. They also give you a couple washers so the springs don't bind with the copper.

[gmat]

Yep that is what i was meaning. Danger Den (maze2) system is near perfect, though you still have to tighten those 4 bolts. The way to improve it would be:
- replace nylon bolts with metal rods
- mount a pressure plate under springs that fits exactly those metal rods so it slides in and out vertically
- mount a latch system over the pressure plate so when you lock it the springs hold it down.
Still, you'll have to mount those 4 metal rods by hand....

[Joe]

yeh surefoot thats what I was thinking.

[sunblade]

Whoops. I knew DangerDen used the 4 bolts, but I didn't know the specifics. Sorry

[GuyBFF]

Check out the post from the guy in Germany, theres a couple real neat mounts on some water block I'd never heard of.

Four of them apparently beat the Maze 2 "upgrade"!!! He has a full radiator and waterblock shootout!!! (wish I could read German).

[gmat]

About those 4 bolts, you cant mount them on a 'backplate' so you just have to throw the whole thing behind your mobo. Putting some insulation on it (like neoprene) would be great also, so ppl with peltiers already have the back side insulated

[Joe]

A Back plate is nice cause then you dont worry about bending the board when you have strong springs. I know abit boards bend rather easily with heavy blocks and that alont can let the block sit croooked.

[Arcturius]

Here's what I intend to do:

NUT                       NUT
 /    _________________    /
 \    |waterblock/hsf |    \  <- SPRINGS
 /    |               |    /
_\____|__|_________|__|____\_
|H       H    0    H       H|
|H__|____A____|____A____|__H|  <- ALUMINUM PLATE/HOLD DOWN
 H  H[PELTIER]H[PELTIER]H  H
 H|-H---------H---------H-|H
 H|_A_________A_________A_|H  <- COLDPLATE
NUT   [=====CPU=======]   NUT
============================= <- MOTHERBOARD
[---------------------------] <- CLOSED CELL FOAM/NEOPRENE
[---------------------------] <- ALUMINUM PLATE
[_]                       [_] <- BOLT HEADS

(Part of that ASCII is stolen from sunBLADE, since it was so nice. I hope you don't mind, do you sunBLADE?)

A = countersunk hole
| = edge of plate, or tapped hole in plate
H = exposed bolt, or untapped hole in plate
0 = 'socket lug'

I want to make an AL plate, with holes through it, so I can hold a waterblock to it with four bolts. It will also have two pins hanging out for attaching a normal HSF; lugs will be steel, and unbreakable for all intents and purposes. Cold plate and Peltiers are optional, but are attached to the AL plate in basically the same way that the plate is attached to a waterblock. The whole mess is attached to the board via 4 bolts and springs, which are fed through another (1-3mm) plate on the back of the mobo. This will take all torsion off of the mobo, and simply subject it to the normal compression.

PROs (in my mind):

• The back plate, neoprene, posts can be left on the board at all times
• Main plate, peltiers, coldplate, and HSF/waterblock are effectively one piece, easing installation and insulation
• Allows for 'lug-breaker' attachment mechanisms with safety
• Allows great pressure to be exerted on
  Peltiers
• Allows great pressure to be exerted on chip, if you want
• Lots of metal to spread heat
• Thickness allows you to put in a heatspreader insert, if you have a foundry
• Works with HSF/waterblock, w/wo peltier

CONs/Caveats:

• Plate needs to be thick to allow 'lugs' to be mounted--must have same thickness as CPU + socket, more or less
• More complex than some other designs

I like it though, and as soon as I get a free day that's less than 85F in the shop, I'll make the thing.

Update: accidentally forgot one bolt

[GuyBFF]

I never found any flex on my motherboard, but a backing plate with quality nut would definetely make mounting the blocks feel more secure.

One consideration, would it require longer motherboard standoffs, or a hole cut in the motherboard mounting plate? There isn't a tonne of room there.

How about a plate with threaded holes in it, and studs. Then you would save a little room on the bolt heads, and hopefully fit without modifying, or longer motherboard studs (which you could double up if necessary).

[Erupter]

I have one site for you, you may haven't seen yet, theyr wb has nice retention system.
Here is the link: http://www.cooltech.it
Sorry if the link doesn't work, don't know how these things work

[Joe]

wow I have never heard of cooltech.it, they have some slick looking gear!