BigBong Construction

[crazyjoekuta]

I come from the [H], but am looking to expand my horizons.
On that note, here's the bong i'm making.
(I figure my first post might as well be something interesting)



I just got the pipe today! Not sure what size i'm gonna cut it to, as i am waiting on tubing/fittings and the 2nd Mag7 to come in.


This is one of the heads i might use (i might use one w/ many more holes).






Don't worry i'm going to order much brighter and cooler looking Led's, this was just to get an idea if it would work.




I have a lot more pics, i don't know how you guys do things around here, but i hope i make a worthy addition.

This rig is going to use the new spir@l.
In addition, two 125cfm fans will be attached to the "wye" connections on the bong base.

[Khledar]

That is a big bong, you said 2nd Mag7, are you running one pump through the system and the other to send the water up to the shower head? Cause I could imagine the flow rate decreasing substantially with that amount of rise.

[Volenti]

nice! hehe, the water will probably reach terminal velocity by the time it hits the bottom

[koslov]

Very nice, but I imagine your room will turn into a sauna!! I had suggested this on an earlier thread, but I was wondering if placing sparse (not dense) steel wool in the tube to slow the descent would allow for better heat exchange between water and air. I'm thinking the water would collect as beads on the wool and be exposed to the air until it was replaced by other falling water. Also, having an exhaust fan at the top might help vent air better, since hot air rises. Are the fans at the bottom going to be intake?

What is the third pic?

[Mr. Thompson]

crazyjoekuta - It's shaping up! Welcome to Pro/Forums!

koslov - I doubt it will turn his room into a sauna. Even my bong cooled dual pelt rig couldn't do that.

The last pic is an LED illuminated water level meter (the tube in the next to last pic.)

[crazyjoekuta]

Thanks for the replies!

Khledar, yes, the 2nd pump is for computer circulation.

More specifically:
Mag7_1: from res to pump to showerhead
Mag7_2: from res to spir@l to pump to showerhead

I am setting it up this way so i might get more GPH @ head.
However this plan might change if i find the Mag7_2 cannot even reach a good height on the tube after going through the computer.
I hope that will not be the case, but i am fearful.

koslov, the fans on the bottom will be intake or exhaust, we'll see which functions better (less sprites), and performs better (although i think fan position/direction is trivial to performance).

[bigben2k]

It looks good.

A couple of suggestions:
1-you might have considered a larger diameter for the tube.
2-replace the showerhead with something that'll give more of a mist. Possibly even a mister type nozzle.
3-Welcome to ProCooling!

What's the purpose of the double tubing?

[crazyjoekuta]

yes, 3/4 might be better than 1/2 (for the bong loop at least), maybe i'll upgrade later.

The purpose of the double tubing is explained above
i am running 2 loops, 1 for the computer, 1 for the bong.
I hope that by merging the computer loop with the bong loop, i get an increase in GPH @ the head, but that will have to be tested when i get my second pump and tubing/fittings.

I have been reading up on a lot of stuff, and have some more modifications planned for today.

[bigben2k]

If I was you... I'd use the inner tube for the bong, and the outer area for an air return, to minimize coolant loss. You could run another tube up the bong to feed the hot water to the shower head, using both pumps in series. this would allow you to use a good mister type nozzle.

[crazyjoekuta]

i'm not sure what u mean by 'outer area for an air return', but i had a question about misters... won't the mist fly out of the bong w/ airflow?

/edit: i ordered this head this morning, b/c it still has a lot of flow (more water = more cooling), and has finer water drops (more surface area).

http://gardengift.com/rainbowwand.html (just the head, not the whole wand)

im looking into data on misters...

[bigben2k]

Yeah, that's good.

A mister, like a nozzle for a carburator, would probably work well too.

What I meant by outer area, is the area between the inner tube, and the outer tube. Since the mist has a longer tube to go through, you might be able to recuperate a lot more of the coolant.

On the other hand, it might work better if the outer tube was metallic. I guess you could even apply some current to attract the mist to the metallic tube, but I'm not sure how you'd go about doing that. The principle is similar to air ionizers, but quite different in this case.

[Cova]

I'm not sure if collecting lost coolant in a bong setup would be a good idea. I've never built a bong before, and don't plan to (not a computer one anyways), but if all of the cooling comes from water evaporating (which absorbs a lot of heat), then condensing that water back to a liquid and collecting it will just put the heat right back into the system again. This is why there is a rad on the newly liquified coolant in a phase-change setup.

Unless you are collecting the evaporated water in a separate res and using some other method to cool it back down (eg. a rad) you're not really getting any overall heat dissipation out of the system, you're just moving the heat around inside the system.

Hmm..., now I'm getting other ideas, this could get complex.

[bigben2k]

Actually, I believe that the principle is about running an air flow through the mist, so that the fine droplets of water can dissipate their heat into the air. The mister/shower head is only there to give the water a greater surface area. So the water is not evaporated, it's simply circulated.

Theoretically, the hot air is what's evacuated, but the problem with all bongs, is that it'll drag some of the coolant with it, and that's why I suggested a way to recuperate that coolant.

[gmat]

Actually evaporation takes a good place in the process. For example, when you take a shower, water is not at 100°C and yet lots of vapor forms then condensate on walls and windows.
It's because the showerhead forms a fine mist, and the friction of air against small droplets is enough to evaporate a good part of them, thus cooling the rest of each droplet. (huhh im not sure i was clear on that one, but i've got a good ol' headache today).

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by gmat
Actually evaporation takes a good place in the process. For example, when you take a shower, water is not at 100°C and yet lots of vapor forms then condensate on walls and windows.
It's because the showerhead forms a fine mist, and the friction of air against small droplets is enough to evaporate a good part of them, thus cooling the rest of each droplet. (huhh im not sure i was clear on that one, but i've got a good ol' headache today).

headache aside , would you agree that running the air back down, between the inner tube and the outer tube, would give one a chance to recover some coolant, especially if the outer tube was metallic?

[gmat]

Yes. There have been many experiments to recover the coolant.
Firstly you'll never recover 100%.
Next the efficiency comes at a cost, both in money and place (big condenser coils arent quite a beautiful thing in a living room).
There are so many ways, from the simple metallic grill on top of the bong, to condenser coils running along and leading to a separate res, anything goes, but keep in mind 2 things
- you dont want to condensate vapor and put immediately the water back into the loop. Like someone pointed before, you're just bringing back your heat.
- you'll want to keep a good airflow, good performance, less noise, etc... all this while saving some money (hey, bongs are the less expensive way of watercooling after all).

[pHaestus]

Re: misters

Check out a Co-op or other place with farm equipment if you live anywhere newar such. Just saw a demonstration today about emerging nozzle technologies for spraying herbicides in an ag engineering show. Expect to need some PSI behind it though...

[crazyjoekuta]

The force is with me on this project, check this out!

Case-Mod.com
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 1337
Detailed Invoice:
https://www.case-mod.com/store/accou...?order_id=1337
Date Ordered: Friday July 19, 2002

Products
------------------------------------------------------
20 x Fan Screws (F003) = $1.40
2 x 120mm Case Fan: YS-Tech 125.5 CFM (F010) = $21.98
2 x 120mm Fan Grill (F007) = $1.98
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $25.36
Tax: $0.00
Shipping to US : 1.3 lb(s): $4.65
Total: $30.01



also an update... currently i am investigating a bigger pump for the bong, so that i might get more height, which would be cool.

Looking at: Mag9.5 vs. Quiet One

[decodeddiesel]

You may want to look into little giant, or hydrothruster pumps for your delivery needs here.

[crazyjoekuta]

yea, i've read briefly about those, but from what i've read they are louder and more expensive...

FYI great pump info can be had at reef forums, i'm @ reefcentral.com and reefs.org also has some info.

I haven't heard anything of mag7 failure around these forums, but apparently they have the greatest failure rate. Hope mine will be OK!
I'm leaning towards the mag9.5 b/c @ head levels above 2 feet it pumps more GPH, it's $30 cheaper, and i'm also reading about the Quiet One adding more heat than other pumps to the system.

You can NEVER research enough!!!!

[decodeddiesel]

The little giant and hydrothruster won't be a whole lot louder than a Danner, but yes they are somewhat expensive. As to Danner failure, I've never heard of that before. I know on my old Danner 5 (ret.) the impeller housing would crack if I looked at it funny, and it was loud, but other than that it was a good pump. As to adding heat, these pumps are far more powerfull than the little things we normally use and therefor use much more power, however they all have metal motor housings which act as heatsinks, and I'm sure you could further cool them by adding a low CFM fan to the back of them....just a thought.... Still the big Danner should do well here but it won't give you the PSI of the big boys.

[crazyjoekuta]

heh, now i'm considering the mag12. it has 6.8 PSI, is this enough?

Here are the Little Giant PSI specs:

2-MDQ-SC: 6.5 PSI
3-MDQ-SC: 8.2
3-MDQX-SC: 6.4
4-MDQ-SC: 10.9
4-MDQX-SC: 7.8
5-MD-SC: 11.9

I'm a little confused, though, because the 3-MDQX-SC gets a heck of a lot more GPH than the 3-MDQ-SC at ALL head heights, yet it has 1.8 LESS PSI than the 3-MDQ-SC,,, ???

Should i be looking for the most PSI for this application? Or the most GPH at 6 or above head height?

thanks!

[bigben2k]

It is possible for a pump to provide a higher pressure for the same flow rate, versus another pump.

In your case, I think that pressure is what'll be important, since you've got to get that coolant passed either the showerhead, or a nozzle. It would give your coolant a higher velocity as it goes down the bong, and it might help minimize the coolant loss.

Where did you get those specs? It looks like a difference in max pressure, between those two pumps, and not so much of GPH. i.e. the 3-MDQX-SC might give off more gph, but it probably reaches a height where it can't do anything, where the 3-MDQ-SC would still be going.

Hard to say, without seeing the curves.

[decodeddiesel]

Those are some very interesting specs you found. I can assume pressure, flow, and head are all directly related to the shape and design of the impeller and impeller housing. For example a large impeller with a large displacement housing would provide a good deal of "torque" and therefor flow, however less pressure than a a similar sized pimpeller and smaller housing. Just my theory on this... To answer your question I would aim more toward high pressure...this will make your droplets smaller, give them more of a chance to evaporate, increase the surface area of your water collumn, and theoretically reduce the noise of your bong.

[crazyjoekuta]

bigben2k, right now the only coolant i'll be using is water... but that's a coolant, just making sure we were on the same page.

It makes sense that the higher PSI models can reach a higher head height...
i thought the PSI level was always at whatever level the pump's rating was, but i think that's just the max PSI the pump can exert, which makes sense.
With my showerhead, that's adding an lot of 'head' to the setup, so i need high PSI to get good flow through the showerhead.
Also, this will make more mist, as you pointed out decodeddiesel.

FYI, here is a great reference w/ many pump specs of many pumps:

http://www.petsolutions.com/Wpumpchart.html