Cracked Srir@l :/

big|d0g · 08-09-2002, 03:34 AM

Here is a piccy of my m8s new spir@l cracked on the leak test

only thing i think whent wrong was he took out the barbs and put on ptfe tape,would this have done it??

http://forum.gibtek.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=214

:shrug:

:shrug:

gone_fishin · 08-09-2002, 03:57 AM

It looks like he bottomed out the barb onto the copper below and something had to give. I suggest for anyone attempting to tinker with their barbs to cut off some threads before screwing them back in, this way they can't bottom out and force the top upwards. And if that is not an option then remove the top when screwing the barbs in so you can see that the barb does not extend below the bottom of the poly (is it polycarbonate btw?) top plate.

ambient · 08-09-2002, 08:26 AM

I don't understand how you could crack that top. I've taken my Spir@l apart 3 times now. It seems like it would be very hard to crack or break the top. Gone_Fishin, about the barbs, on mine they're barely screwed in. The barb doesn't even come through the bottom of the top. Mine are about 1/4" away from the bottom of the top. Even when I remounted the top the 3 times I took it apart, I screwed the screws in almost all the way.

WebMasta33 · 08-09-2002, 10:13 AM

Well, quite honestly, the poly top is only tapped out to a certin diameter. Adding the teflon taped added diameter, and since poly, being strong; is quite brittle. Something gave, and it certinly wan't going to be the brass barb.

I personally, wouldn't touch the barbs if they didn't leak in the first place.

ambient · 08-09-2002, 10:26 AM

yeah my barbs have silicone on them instead of the tape.

bigben2k · 08-09-2002, 11:08 AM

An engineer would tell you this: you should have been more careful, and picked the plastic barbs, because it's preferable to break a plastic barb then a poly top.

ambient · 08-09-2002, 12:35 PM

Quote:

An engineer would tell you this: you should have been more careful, and picked the plastic barbs, because it's preferable to break a plastic barb then a poly top.

That or don't remove and replace the barbs. At least thats what it looks like he did.

bigben2k · 08-09-2002, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ambient

That or don't remove and replace the barbs. At least thats what it looks like he did.

Yup. Those brass barbs are not the original ones.

gone_fishin · 08-09-2002, 01:50 PM

It makes me wonder if them holes are even tapped properly. Are they tapped at all so that the barbs just siliconed into the holes, or are they only partially tapped? When I do it, I tap it right to the end of the pipe tap which is the proper way. You can screw the barb right down to the hex portion for a snug fit and when you add two wraps of teflon tape to the barb threads there is no leaking or excessive force to the poly hole. Of course I use 1/2" thick poly and it looks like the TC-4 top is only 3/8" thick so the barbs would need to be trimmed shorter in a properly tapped hole in 3/8" poly because the bottom of the barb would otherwise extend beyond the bottom of the top.
Thoughts anyone?

ambient · 08-09-2002, 03:02 PM

The barbs are tapped all the way through. Mine don't have any tape on them, just goop or silicone. They don't leak and are solid as hell. They are very long though. You can't really screw the barbs in past the bottom of the top, the block will get in the way.

ambient · 08-09-2002, 03:03 PM

I have some good (i hope) pics of that block taken apart and very close up. I will post them once I get'em developed.

gone_fishin · 08-09-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ambient
The barbs are tapped all the way through. Mine don't have any tape on them, just goop or silicone. They don't leak and are solid as hell. They are very long though. You can't really screw the barbs in past the bottom of the top, the block will get in the way.

That's the whole problem, if the barb hits the copper, then there is upward force on the poly top and CRACKO

ambient · 08-09-2002, 03:59 PM

Quote:

That's the whole problem, if the barb hits the copper, then there is upward force on the poly top and CRACKO

I agree

FRAGN'STIEN · 08-11-2002, 10:41 PM

From the pic I don't see where it bottomed out. I think it's just a reflection off the poly, but if you take the barbs out you allways want to replace silicon with silicon never use teflon tape on a poly top.

gone_fishin · 08-11-2002, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FRAGN'STIEN
From the pic I don't see where it bottomed out. I think it's just a reflection off the poly, but if you take the barbs out you allways want to replace silicon with silicon never use teflon tape on a poly top.

This is going to be somewhat of a rant.

Silicone has nothing to do with poly, it is just what they decided to use. Teflon tape works perfectly fine and serves its designed purpose on a properly tapped hole, (that's what it's made for). You will not be able to tell from the pic because there is no knowing if the barb was backed out after it cracked for picture taking purposes.
Deflection from the tape alone would not cause this, the force of actually tapping the hole is much greater than the weak fibered tape, so if it survived the tapping then it will certainly survive the application of teflon tape to the hosebarb threads. Now if there were short cracks already in the barb hole from a poor tapping procedure then that is another story, any force to the hole would cause them to spread. Could this be why they loosely screw them in, then gunk them up tight with silicone?
I am troubled by the apparent poor job they have done with the clear tops on their blocks and then just switch over to copper or aluminum without admitting there was something wrong with their procedure. The tops should have been made thicker so that customers changing barbs would not bottom out (They should have known damn well that tinkerers shall tinker) and they should have been tapped so that a tight fit with a teflon tape application would be all that was needed instead of loosely screwing them in with silicone. BTW everyone should realize that these were all money saving steps that they chose.
And yes, I use poly in my designs, so it kind of tics me off that they are scaring people away from it, all because they were trying to keep the cost down by sacrificing quality for quantity.
The maze3 copper tops are being offered for the same reason.

morphling1 · 08-12-2002, 01:28 PM

I tapped quite a few holes in plexy, 1/4" and I always use teflon tape, never had any problems with leaks or cracks, and I realy can't see how could you have one if you do it correctly

FRAGN'STIEN · 08-12-2002, 09:34 PM

Sorry for the confusion. My comment was directed at the Spir@l. Yes if tapped properly then it shouldn't matter using teflon tape, but in the case with the spir@L if your taking it apart for maintenence you should replace the sealer with silicon

gone_fishin · 08-12-2002, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FRAGN'STIEN
Sorry for the confusion. My comment was directed at the Spir@l. Yes if tapped properly then it shouldn't matter using teflon tape, but in the case with the spir@L if your taking it apart for maintenence you should replace the sealer with silicon

I take it you believe it is not tapped properly then?

V12|V12 · 08-13-2002, 02:07 PM

Okay... Hrmmm like I've always said... you guys and you're "eye-candy" stuff... Such a waste, risking a whole system getting destroyed, just so that you can look into the case occassionaly and see a little flow, or tell someone about it, aside from the higher temps you see from the inefficent plastic tops Vs. Copper. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Solid copper= No cracks, spills, frills, just PURE cooling at it's best, but sorry for your loss man.

ANyhow Ciao!

gone_fishin · 08-13-2002, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by V12|V12
Okay... Hrmmm like I've always said... you guys and you're "eye-candy" stuff... Such a waste, risking a whole system getting destroyed, just so that you can look into the case occassionaly and see a little flow, or tell someone about it, aside from the higher temps you see from the inefficent plastic tops Vs. Copper. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Solid copper= No cracks, spills, frills, just PURE cooling at it's best, but sorry for your loss man.

ANyhow Ciao!

A copper top contributes absolutely nothing to the cooling abillity of a waterblock

The only reason people have the notion of clear tops risking a system is by extremely poor utilization of the material which has spread such nonsensical ideas. After all, a poor soldering job results in the same risk does it not?

FRAGN'STIEN · 08-13-2002, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gone_fishin

I take it you believe it is not tapped properly then?

No I don't. when I look at mine it looks as if the barbs only go in so far, and where they stop I see no threads beyond that point, but don't get me wrong I think the spir@l is a top notch block. It has the looks and excellent cooling capabilities. V12|V12 my polytopped spiral out-performs my solid copper maze2 by about 4°c.

Limeygreg · 08-13-2002, 10:58 PM

bigben2k said that he thought they were not the original barbs.

If that is the case then big|d0g's buddy may have replaced them with barbs he purchased in the UK, the problem being that the Spiral top would be tapped with NPT (National Pipe Thread) and his barbs would be BSP (British Standard Pipe thread) - quite likely to be a total miss-match on size and thread pitch, hence the breakage. He probably had to screw them in too tightly to stop them from leaking because of the thread pitch difference.

edit:
Them barbs look like they hardly go into the block and the one at the broken port even looks like it's at a slight angle as it it were cross threaded.

big|d0g · 08-14-2002, 02:10 AM

My m8 said the they where the barbs that was sent to him on the spir@l,mine a chrome and look nothing like his and my spir@ls ok so far

ambient · 08-14-2002, 12:42 PM

big|d0g, do you know what size the barbs are? The 1/2" ones are chrome, I know you can get the Spir@l with 3/8" barbs, but I don't know if those are brass.

big|d0g · 08-14-2002, 01:19 PM

I asked him and he said the the barbs that where sent on his spir@l was brass 1/2,also the barbs where lose and he didnt know if he had to put ptfe tape on or not,then when he posted about some sort of silicon that was sealing the barbs he was told not to mess with it then but by this time it was to late for him,i didnt touch my block as i thought it looked ok.

08-09-2002, 03:34 AM	#1
big\|d0g Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: uk..telford Posts: 17	Cracked Srir@l :/ Here is a piccy of my m8s new spir@l cracked on the leak test only thing i think whent wrong was he took out the barbs and put on ptfe tape,would this have done it?? http://forum.gibtek.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=214 :shrug: :shrug:

08-09-2002, 08:26 AM	#3
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	I don't understand how you could crack that top. I've taken my Spir@l apart 3 times now. It seems like it would be very hard to crack or break the top. Gone_Fishin, about the barbs, on mine they're barely screwed in. The barb doesn't even come through the bottom of the top. Mine are about 1/4" away from the bottom of the top. Even when I remounted the top the 3 times I took it apart, I screwed the screws in almost all the way. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-09-2002, 10:13 AM	#4
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	Well, quite honestly, the poly top is only tapped out to a certin diameter. Adding the teflon taped added diameter, and since poly, being strong; is quite brittle. Something gave, and it certinly wan't going to be the brass barb. I personally, wouldn't touch the barbs if they didn't leak in the first place. __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 ===========

08-09-2002, 10:26 AM	#5
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	yeah my barbs have silicone on them instead of the tape. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-09-2002, 11:08 AM	#6
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	An engineer would tell you this: you should have been more careful, and picked the plastic barbs, because it's preferable to break a plastic barb then a poly top. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-09-2002, 03:57 AM	#2
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	It looks like he bottomed out the barb onto the copper below and something had to give. I suggest for anyone attempting to tinker with their barbs to cut off some threads before screwing them back in, this way they can't bottom out and force the top upwards. And if that is not an option then remove the top when screwing the barbs in so you can see that the barb does not extend below the bottom of the poly (is it polycarbonate btw?) top plate.

08-09-2002, 01:50 PM	#9
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	It makes me wonder if them holes are even tapped properly. Are they tapped at all so that the barbs just siliconed into the holes, or are they only partially tapped? When I do it, I tap it right to the end of the pipe tap which is the proper way. You can screw the barb right down to the hex portion for a snug fit and when you add two wraps of teflon tape to the barb threads there is no leaking or excessive force to the poly hole. Of course I use 1/2" thick poly and it looks like the TC-4 top is only 3/8" thick so the barbs would need to be trimmed shorter in a properly tapped hole in 3/8" poly because the bottom of the barb would otherwise extend beyond the bottom of the top. Thoughts anyone?

08-09-2002, 03:02 PM	#10
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	The barbs are tapped all the way through. Mine don't have any tape on them, just goop or silicone. They don't leak and are solid as hell. They are very long though. You can't really screw the barbs in past the bottom of the top, the block will get in the way. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-09-2002, 03:03 PM	#11
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	I have some good (i hope) pics of that block taken apart and very close up. I will post them once I get'em developed. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-11-2002, 10:41 PM	#14
FRAGN'STIEN Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rathdrum, ID Posts: 380	From the pic I don't see where it bottomed out. I think it's just a reflection off the poly, but if you take the barbs out you allways want to replace silicon with silicon never use teflon tape on a poly top. __________________ This space for rent

08-12-2002, 01:28 PM	#16
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	I tapped quite a few holes in plexy, 1/4" and I always use teflon tape, never had any problems with leaks or cracks, and I realy can't see how could you have one if you do it correctly __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

08-12-2002, 09:34 PM	#17
FRAGN'STIEN Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rathdrum, ID Posts: 380	Sorry for the confusion. My comment was directed at the Spir@l. Yes if tapped properly then it shouldn't matter using teflon tape, but in the case with the spir@L if your taking it apart for maintenence you should replace the sealer with silicon __________________ This space for rent

08-13-2002, 02:07 PM	#19
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Okay... Hrmmm like I've always said... you guys and you're "eye-candy" stuff... Such a waste, risking a whole system getting destroyed, just so that you can look into the case occassionaly and see a little flow, or tell someone about it, aside from the higher temps you see from the inefficent plastic tops Vs. Copper. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Solid copper= No cracks, spills, frills, just PURE cooling at it's best, but sorry for your loss man. ANyhow Ciao! __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-13-2002, 10:58 PM	#22
Limeygreg Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA. Posts: 20	bigben2k said that he thought they were not the original barbs. If that is the case then big\|d0g's buddy may have replaced them with barbs he purchased in the UK, the problem being that the Spiral top would be tapped with NPT (National Pipe Thread) and his barbs would be BSP (British Standard Pipe thread) - quite likely to be a total miss-match on size and thread pitch, hence the breakage. He probably had to screw them in too tightly to stop them from leaking because of the thread pitch difference. edit: Them barbs look like they hardly go into the block and the one at the broken port even looks like it's at a slight angle as it it were cross threaded. Last edited by Limeygreg; 08-13-2002 at 11:01 PM.

08-14-2002, 02:10 AM	#23
big\|d0g Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: uk..telford Posts: 17	My m8 said the they where the barbs that was sent to him on the spir@l,mine a chrome and look nothing like his and my spir@ls ok so far

08-14-2002, 12:42 PM	#24
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	big\|d0g, do you know what size the barbs are? The 1/2" ones are chrome, I know you can get the Spir@l with 3/8" barbs, but I don't know if those are brass. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-14-2002, 01:19 PM	#25
big\|d0g Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: uk..telford Posts: 17	I asked him and he said the the barbs that where sent on his spir@l was brass 1/2,also the barbs where lose and he didnt know if he had to put ptfe tape on or not,then when he posted about some sort of silicon that was sealing the barbs he was told not to mess with it then but by this time it was to late for him,i didnt touch my block as i thought it looked ok.

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