Silent water-cooled PC... opinions?

[Funky D]

Hello all,

I found this board after doing some Google searching, and after browsing some old threads it looks to be a great resource with some great people! Maybe you guys can offer me some advice...

I'm going to be putting together my "dream system" in the next month or two: P4 2.4GHz, loads of RDRAM, RAID, etc. etc... I've had the pleasure of working on a few of those new Dell systems with the large heatsinks and ducted fans, and they are virtually SILENT! I'm thinking maybe I could put together a water-cooled system that competes with the quietest of air-cooled systems, including those spiffy Dells...

I'm not going to overclock anything, and I don't need an ice-cold CPU, just something that runs reliably within specs. I want everything to fit inconspicuously in a mid-tower case, and I'd like to water-cool the CPU, GPU, chipset, and two hard drives.

I found the site www.cooltechnica.com, and their setup using the AMS case and Black Ice radiator seems to offer everything I need... I'd prefer to mount the radiator on the back of the case to reduce noise. I'm thinking of using Danger Den waterblocks for the CPU/GPU/Chipset, and possibly Innovatek hard drive coolers.

If I use one of those "silent" power supplies and run a 120mm Papst fan on the radiator at 5-7 volts, would this adequately cool the system, and would it compete with the silent Dell system I mentioned above? I'd like the loudest component in the system to be the hard drive, and hopefully I could tame it even more with some extra insulation in the case.

I checked out HWLab's website and noticed they offer a new Black Ice Micro radiator that is slightly larger than a 80mm fan... would a single radiator of this size be an option with a low RPM 80mm fan, or would it not dissipate enough heat?

Sorry for making my first post a long one... Any opinions?

Thanks!

Paul

[koslov]

Even if it isn't enough to cool it, there's always the old "undervolt-underclock." Just be careful in your pump selection, some can be quite loud and vibraty. Most people will tell you the Eheim pumps are very quiet.

However, WCing your HDDs might be a bit excessive; if they are 7200RPM I wouldn't waste the effort. And depending on the chipset, many (Northbridges) can run fanless anyway, so why bother to watercool it, especially if you are not planning on OCing?

But if you are mounting the rad on the back, why not get the biggest you can fit?

Also, if you are planning on getting a GF4, they run VERY hot, so take that into consideration.

[Bignuts]

I have been messing around with quite a few different models of 120mm fans on a Danger Den cube radiator, cooling the CPU/GF3/and the North bridge.

With a Panaflow L1A fan running at the stock 12V, the system is quiet, but not silent.

Running the fan at 7V woudl take care of the noise GREATLY, but the temps would rise accordingly. You may want to consider using two fans at 7V if you are looking for a balance between decent temps, low noise and reliability

[pHaestus]

The Black Ice rads are great when space is at a premium, but if I were trying to build a silent system I would get the biggest heatercore that I could fit.

Big heatercores with low flow resistance are your friend. If the core will fit 2x120mm, then you can probably get better performance at a lower noise level with 2 7V (or less) fans than with 1 120mm at 12V. I like the 1970 Blazer w/o A/C myself:




You might think that such a huge rad is overkill, but with very quiet fans it is your best bet. You can see the 6.75" Rotron fan on top of this core; it is a 24V fan I run between 9 and 12V. I like the Rotron but it isn't exactly a silent solution even undervolted

Avoid Rio pumps; they are noticably noisier than the Magdrives.

NB/GPU/hdds? Gonna need a big pump to move water through all that. I would skip the nb and hdds and only cool the gpu if you have a need for it. The GF3 I have does get damn hot though, and I have an innovatek gpu block for it that I like a lot.

[Bignuts]

I use a RIO 180, its cheap, quiet, and has lasted for over 1 1/4 years so far.

And it is DEFINATELY a mag drive.

Are we talking about the same RIO pH?

[Brad]

why not get a custom version of the cooltechnica case with 2x BI's, and 2x enermax adjustable 120mm fans. Their fans are very very quiet, you can hardly hear them if you are more than 10cm away from the fan itself.

seems like the ideal solution to me

[pHaestus]

The BI Pros are a little better than the others, but even they start to choke unless they have about an 80CFM fan onthem. There's just no way to get them really quiet without noise; their facial (is that a word) area is just too small. You could I suppose use 2 BIs, but with neither one working at a very high efficiency I don't think you'll get the performance that you would like. You'll need a bigger pump then.

Oops Bignuts I meant Danner or Eheim or Laguna (pumps I have used and can vouch for). The Rio I had (180 I think) was a rattly lil ****er. I got it with a DTek res, and even after gluing the impeller it was noisier than my Danner 250.

[airspirit]

The less air flow through the rad, the larger the rad needs to be to compensate. pHaestus is right on the money when he suggested a bigger radiator to you. For ultimate silence think 1-ton truck radiator. If you mounted the thing outside of your case (bolted via a rack mount to the always closed side, for instance) and ran four (this is going to sound sick, but hear me out) 120mm panaflos or papsts pushing through it, you could achieve your goal. What you'd need to do is put a voltage regulator (aka, cheapy potentiometer from Rat Shack) on a four way splitter to the fans, and that way you could raise or lower the voltage to the fans as needed and "tune" your system to the perfect performance/loudness for you. You'll find, though, with a radiator with a surface area of 2-3 ft^2, not much airflow is needed for some serious cooling, especially since the PIVs are relatively cool chips.

Like the others said, forget the chipset and HDD (aka Con Job Cooler) coolers. Those parts can live without active cooling (make sure there is a decent sink on your chipset). It'll cut down on noise.

Further, invest in an Antec TruePower power supply. They have a function that measures the temp in your case and controls the case fan speed relative to that. If you have a hot day, it'll run a bit louder. If it's the dead of winter, it'll practically shut your case fan off. Kind of like the voltage controller described above but it is automatic. Plus, the power supply is relatively quiet as well.

With a system setup like described above, you should be running quieter than that Dell you were describing.

[Funky D]

Thanks for all the responses so far everyone! My reasoning behind cooling the HD and chipset was to reduce the case temps... I figured if these were water-cooled, I wouldn't need to worry about adding an extra case fan. Also, it would allow me to enclose the HD in some foam to quiet it down a bit. I'm guessing this is all a moot point and not worth the extra $$? I currently have a GF3 and plan on upgrading to a GF4 when they come down in price some more, so water-cooling the GPU is a must.

However, I really do want to keep the radiator inside the case. I'm pretty sketchy with the dremel tool, so I want something thats relativly simple to assemble. If the Dell I mentioned above can air-cool a P4 quietly, why couldn't a water-cooled system with a similar sized fan and heatsink (radiator) do the same? For those of you using the Black Ice and a 120mm fan, how quiet would you describe it?

Thanks again!

Paul

[airspirit]

The BIX requires quite a bit of air through it. It is hard to do that in a quiet manner (I have one, I know). My suggestion with the radiator requires almost no dremel action. You'd be bolting it on an external rack mounted to the side of the case and the only dremel work you'd need is to punch the holes needed to bolt the assembly on and to make a way for the water hoses to enter and exit the case. Any setup that is self contained is going to have some noise to it.

Watercooling your GPU is a good idea, since it removes a fan from the case. You can do that easily by running the GPU loop parallel with the CPU loop. I was talking the board chipset, not the GPU (which IS something that can require cooling). While you're at it, mount mini-heat sinks on your VRAM, leading to less necessary case circulation.

Trust me, an assembly like I described should be easier to assemble than a full case mounted jobbie. That leads to issues of where to put everything. Since the hardest component to fit is the radiator, mounting a large, thin radiator OUTSIDE the case (i.e., bolted 2" from the case held on by homemade spacers) is an easier solution. The hardest part to do in the system I described is to mount the fans to the radiator. I'm sure, though, that you can find a good solution to that (like extending the mounting rack outwards).

[gmat]

I wont repeat what has been said about the rad (in my opinion the BIX is overrated).
DDen waterblocks are excellent and all copper.
You will NOT want an innovatek HD block, because it's made out of aluminium ! You will kill your copper waterblocks. Besides DDen blocks are in 1/2", innovatek is in 3/8"... you should go all 1/2" (try Tygon )
For a copper HD block (one is enough for 2 HDs, sandwich them and put foam around) try D-Tek at dtekcustoms.com .

(edit) You'll also want a fanless PSU, if price is not a problem...
http://www.siliconacoustics.com/tkpow300wfan.html

[airspirit]

Aren't the Innovatek blocks anodized for full non-battery style goodness? I believe the only part that is not sealed to prevent current xfer is the bottom copper plate. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong block, but I can swear I've read that somewhere.

That said, I think it is always safer to stick to strictly copper systems. You get better heat xfer, besides the worry about galvanic corrosion.

[V12|V12]

Just my $.02 AVOID Via 1300's! I got mine, lubed the shaft up with some Teflon, for extra resistance relief and this bastard not only makes a nasty 60hz HuuummmmmMMMMmmmmmMMMMmmm, while on top of about 1inch of bubble wrap, it also dumps TONS of heat into my system! I've got my pump directly wired inline with the PSU, so when the PSU switch is on, the pump comes on, but not the system... I'll shut down, and forget to turn the pump off and find inthe morning that the damn water and block are equal or hotter than when everything is powered up! It's a measily 28W pump, but it sure heats up my water! I hate it, but everything else costs 4x more and is much too large for my case... what to do, what to do?!

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by V12|V12
Just my $.02 AVOID Via 1300's! I got mine, lubed the shaft up with some Teflon, for extra resistance relief and this bastard not only makes a nasty 60hz HuuummmmmMMMMmmmmmMMMMmmm, while on top of about 1inch of bubble wrap, it also dumps TONS of heat into my system! I've got my pump directly wired inline with the PSU, so when the PSU switch is on, the pump comes on, but not the system... I'll shut down, and forget to turn the pump off and find inthe morning that the damn water and block are equal or hotter than when everything is powered up! It's a measily 28W pump, but it sure heats up my water! I hate it, but everything else costs 4x more and is much too large for my case... what to do, what to do?!

I've got a suggestion, but it's contrary to apparent logic:

Get a second one.

Hook it up in series with the first one, that way you'll have better pressure (and flow) and you won't be straining the pump so much, so the noise will go down.

You really need to wire that pump up differently. It can come on and off with the PSU.

[redleader]

You will NOT want an innovatek HD block, because it's made out of aluminium ! You will kill your copper waterblocks.

Actually I think the Cu would plate the Al, but I'm not sure.

[V12|V12]

Originally posted by bigben2k

I've got a suggestion, but it's contrary to apparent logic:

Get a second one.

Hook it up in series with the first one, that way you'll have better pressure (and flow) and you won't be straining the pump so much, so the noise will go down.

You really need to wire that pump up differently. It can come on and off with the PSU.

That's the thing, my flow rate is quite good actually, I'm running 1/2 and 3/4" lines with only a few 90° bends. I think that the pump is just messed up or something... Why do I need to wire the pump differently? If the PSU isn't on, the pump is not on. So there is no forgetting about it being off and accidentally powering the system on etc... I think it's just a shitball pump.... There's no more than 1 to 1-1/2 ft head pressure, it should not be straining at all... Lousy Via!

[airspirit]

I agree on the Via 1300. I got mine, hooked it up, got no pressure and a ton of noise. They are pieces of sh!t. Go for a eheim or spend a few buxx more on a nursery pro NPU-500. My NPU-500 pumps like a mad fiend and is completely silent. You can find NPU-500 units for as low as $70-80 bucks, it comes with a two year warranty, it is reinforced to the hilt, designed for constant HEAVY usage, and will pump very high GPHs through the most complex systems. Just a thought.

[V12|V12]

Aww man FLUCK! $70, I can barely afford to eat well, haha My computer gets more attention than my living habits (well going out and boosing for chicks get the most!) anyhow, that's what I'm talking about... Anything more than $30 for a pump that's around 350GPH is just RIDICULOUS, then things cost about $.10 to MAKE! It's just PLASTIC resin coating some water resistant epoxy, which coats a simple Mag-coil, which in turn moves a plastic impeller w/ plastic shaft! The design process cost the most, but still they are making a KILLING with these things! It's not even what you'd call "high-quality" plastic, aka the thermo-plastic resin found in some car bodies (vettes) or The resin cast for carbon fiber, or Amine resin, okay I've made a point? hehe Guess I'll just have to find other means of getting a quality pump... DIE VIA!!!!

[FRAGN'STIEN]

Ok,ok I've seen you guys put down the Via aqua before, and I have one question. Have you ever bought a second one to see if the first one was a dud? I've argued this before in these forums, but never seem to get a response. I run the Via aqua along with alot of other guys in these forums and others that really like them and get great performance out of them.

[airspirit]

Well, I wouldn't waste my money on a second one. If all of us that have had problems have got "duds," then it doesn't bode well for the quality of the manufacturer, and that would be another reason to avoid it.

The NPU-500's numbers that they advertise are understated. By high quality plastic I mean it is of the rugged variety, unlike what I've seen on most pumps (you can practically make a Via pump break by looking at it ... I destroyed many of the fittings with hand pressure, and I wasn't even trying). Besides the rugged casing, it also has a thick rubber grommet around the entire pump protecting it (and parts in you box) from damage in the case that it shifts around somehow. They built the things so rugged that you can drop kick them and they'd be fine. Even without all those things, it was the 2 year warranty regardless of use that attracted me. I could run coal tar through it, and if it broke, return it for a new one.

[V12|V12]

Okay, there is no way in St.joseph's hell I'm dropping more money on a POS VIA... I heard Rio wasn't that great, but they have to be better or equal, I might try them... Don't get me wrong, This Via 1300 pumps hella fluid, but it runs HOT as hell! The damn pump dumps so much heat into my system! Heck, with the whole sys turned off, cept the pump, the block and the Rad feel HOTTER than with everything on! And I know for a fact that the Chevette cores can compensate for a ton of heat, even without the fans on... but this Via is just a heating machine! It's noisey, vibrates like a chainsaw! Okay maybe not that bad, but it's NOT what I expected from it. I've only got 2 90° bends in my whole sys and they are 1/2" bends, I'm running 1/2" to CPU and pump, massive 3/4" to and from rad so I KNOW there is not much flow resistance, my block isn't a maze or spiral, so it's not the bottle neck either... I'm thinking the dang PUMP itself is the bottleneck! HAHA F-U VIA!