its the OCH ipkonfig Review all over again...

ambient · 08-16-2002, 12:10 PM

Ok I know this should be posted in the News around the web forum. But this is watercooling related. Can anyone vouch for the pump used in this case? Seems like the same old OCH crap. Also seems like the ambient temp was some where around 15-17c from the temps the guy got. That pump is better than an ehiem?

LOL.....check it out and have a laugh/rant/anger...etc

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/...x_watercooled/

jaydee · 08-16-2002, 01:06 PM

No room temp and no water temp. Results are meaningless. Also would like to see at least one pic of the temps on the probe he used. Review was useless and misleading. They showed the new Z4 being mounted but off to the side they showed the old Z4 copper bottom. They are 2 completely different Z4 blocks!

As for the pump I belive it is the new one that replaced the old bilge pump one.

g.l.amour · 08-16-2002, 01:16 PM

indeed, the temps did seem a bit weird, i was thinking: how could this guy be using a pelt, without mentioning it in the review. silly me.

ambient · 08-16-2002, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
indeed, the temps did seem a bit weird, i was thinking: how could this guy be using a pelt, without mentioning it in the review. silly me.

lmao

bigben2k · 08-16-2002, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ambient
Ok I know this should be posted in the News around the web forum. But this is watercooling related. Can anyone vouch for the pump used in this case? Seems like the same old OCH crap. Also seems like the ambient temp was some where around 15-17c from the temps the guy got. That pump is better than an ehiem? LOL.....check it out and have a laugh/rant/anger...etc

The pump is a Jabsco pump, which only one other user has here. It does go for about $100.00 . Unfortunately, it is quite poorly rated, at 180 gph@0 head, with max pressure around 4 psi. It was originally designed as a booster pump, for RV water systems.

So if your block happens not to require a huge flow rate, it might work. Don't ask me which one though... maybe a low-flow spiral from Gemini?

Either way, a Rio 180gph would work better, but I'm not recommending it, simply because the flow and head are too low.

nexxo · 08-16-2002, 02:38 PM

Two users use the jabsco. Both have very positive experiences with it (both, I think, use a Maze 3 block). The pump runs a bit hot but that does not appear to affect inner case temps (Stays around 34 degrees Celsius) or block performance.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-16-2002, 09:37 PM

Muwahah.. That Z4 sucks ass!

This review sucked so much CPUFX and OCH c0ck it's not funny.. I didn't even read it all.. I was nearly ready to throw up by the 2nd page.

3 GALLONS PER MINUTE ON THAT PUMP! MY ARSE!

My damn via aqua 1300 BARELY gets 3GPM.. that's a 360GPH pump! no way in hell is a mag drive 12v pump going to get ANYTHING CLOSE to 3GPM.. they just took the GPH and divided.. got 3GPM.. They didn't even actually TEST it themselves.. stupid suckers.

Wait.. that means that my via aqua only gets 180GPH.. Hmmm.. takes 20seconds to fill 1 gallon with my pump.. well.. that sucks.. it's getting old though.. pushing like 8months now.. plus the damn thing came apart cuz of all the force I was putting on it the one day.. putting in a barb.. and I had to JB weld it back together.. so what do you expect?

Brad · 08-16-2002, 11:51 PM

Quote:

OCH really puts a lot of effort and time into finding top quality copper alloy to be used in all of their waterblocks. Unlike other companies who just take what they get as long as it's copper

ummm what?

Quote:

Not only does the Z4 look great but the design and performance of the block are outstanding.

how would you know?

Quote:

Unlike most waterblocks the Z4 inlet fitting is placed is placed right above where the core on your CPU would be and water from the pump goes to the waterblock first.

I'd say most blocks out there now do have a central inlet

Quote:

What happens after is the water gets pushed to the outside of the block where it exits the block and passes through the radiator to be cooled and then enters the pump once again. This is one of the better designed waterblocks to date and offers great performance.

more mindless drivel

Quote:

Being magnetically driven this pump is made to last longer than Ehiem pumps and runs quiter than their high end models.

so eheims aren't magdrives? does he even have an eheim to compare to?

Quote:

The following temperature results below were recorded using a temperature bay probe which was placed on the core of the CPU.

on top of the core? uhhhhh

ambient · 08-17-2002, 12:50 AM

What follows was just emailed to the reviewer.

There are many people that have been burned by OCH and their crappy products. In comparison to the rest of the watercooling products available from other manufacturers OCH's are regarded as being the bottom of the barrel (In the observed watercooling community, don't get me wrong my rig is wc'd). We all would like to know the ambient room temp during your test, since your review means absolutely nothing without this information. Also what version of the block did you really test, since your showing both in your review, i.e. the copper or alu bottomed one? Have you ever used an Ehiem pump? If so, for what reason do you conclude the CMD pump to be better? You never mentioned the length to which the CMD pump would be reliable to run 24hrs/ 7days a week or years for that matter. Ehiems have a proven history of being reliable over a long duration of time, such as 5 years or more. They are also magdrive pumps. “The pump reviewed is a Jabsco pump, which only one other user has here (ProForums). It does go for about $100.00 . Unfortunately, it is quite poorly rated, at 180 gph@0 head, with max pressure around 4 psi. It was originally designed as a booster pump, for RV water systems.” Why would a user want to spend 100.00$ when they could purchase a better pump for 20-70$ (Much better for the 70$ price)? Or buy a better kit/case from another manufacturer? Please, don't get me wrong, I don't know you and don't hold anything against you or your site, but if you're going to give the user the dirt, please give them to real dirt......

~Peace

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-17-2002, 01:45 AM

Nicely put Ambient.. I can't STAND CPUFX or OCH.. That Z4 block is the biggest joke EVER.

FRAGN'STIEN · 08-17-2002, 02:08 AM

Good for you ambient. Let us know if and when you get contact from the reveiwer. I would like to know what his justification is for such bull. When I first got into W/Cing, articles like that were gold to me because I didn't know anything about W/Cing, and was looking for reviews on kits. Now some poor noob is going to stumble upon that review and buy that piece of junk.

g.l.amour · 08-17-2002, 03:14 AM

u got it right there fragn'stein. not too long ago i was also a watercooling n00b. i can thank god that at that time there was only the koolance case, that i could'nt grab a hold of. me too was looking allover the web for wc reviews, and believed most everything that was out there. thankfully at that time i was only able to get a hold of swiftech and dangerden products. i now see collegues from work showing me reviews to tell me new gr8 stuff for watercooling is out and that they want to try it...
we can only hope they stumble over these forums, or for that matter any watercooling forum.
anyhow, that kind of review is sickening as i would have believed it instantly 1 year ago. a good indicator for a review would be if the reviewer states if he got his equipment for free or bought it himself. after reading some colums of ed on overclockers a good indicator is also to c if the reviewer has anything negative to say about the subject, coz hardly anything in life is ever perfect.

Stepback · 08-17-2002, 06:01 AM

I'm the user with this pump, Check out the thread.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...?threadid=3321

You might want to checkout this tread as well.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...?threadid=3453

nexxo · 08-17-2002, 01:42 PM

Right people, we all know that OCH / CPUfx stuff is crap for various reasons. And we know this was a bad review. Still, before you slate the pump in question, don't make the same mistake the reviewers made, and actually examine the thing, OK? There are two (2, II) users out there who use this pump and seem quite happy with it. Reliability, performance and noise appear fine. It is continuously rated.

If you really don't like it, that's OK, stick with an Eheim. I may, it's a good pump. But let's not condemn something just because OCH / CPUfx happened to stumble on it as well.

FRAGN'STIEN · 08-17-2002, 03:16 PM

nexxo and stepback. The pump itself wasn't the reason for my comments. Jabsco makes some great quality, although expensive, pumps. My comments were directed more towards the over all (kit) review, or lack there of.

redleader · 08-17-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

OCH really puts a lot of effort and time into finding top quality copper alloy to be used in all of their waterblocks. Unlike other companies who just take what they get as long as it's copper

Hehe and here I thought pure metals inherintly had better conductivity then alloys.

Thanks Techwarelabs!

V12|V12 · 08-17-2002, 05:05 PM

Ambient, ambient... ROTFLOL! I haven't heard such a flame of a person/place or thing is a LONG TIME, I needed to see that... thanks! HAHA

ambient · 08-17-2002, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stepback
I'm the user with this pump, Check out the thread.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...?threadid=3321

You might want to checkout this tread as well.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...?threadid=3453

Yeah I checked out the other threads. I never intended to say that the pump was bad. I didn't know it was rated for continuous duty though, thats good at least. But I don't understand why it would be called "Better than an Ehiem."

Quote:

Originally posted by Stepback
Brad: From jabsco it's $129.

Using the 1250 Ehiem would reduce the cost of the case by 50$ and you would get a better pump. So it wouldn't turn on with the computer. You get better flow for less loot. And the 1250 could be wired to turn on with the computer for less than 50$ I assume.

Khanh · 08-17-2002, 05:23 PM

i have the z4 block and the old pump. the old pump suxs i will never buy anything from them again. Now i use a danner 350 gph pump. It doesn't really get hot and its really quite. my temps are like 34 idle if thte air is on.

nexxo · 08-18-2002, 12:52 PM

@ Khanh:

The old CPUfx pump is a bilge pump: a submersible pump which was designed to get any leaking or waste water inside a boat hull, well, outside the boat hull. As such it has not much pressure behind it, and is not continuously rated. Hence it's crap for watercooling.

@ Ambient:

You're right about the Eheims. No pump is better than an Eheim (IMNERHO). Nevertheless, my trouble with a mains pump, even if rigged to switch on with the computer, is that you're stuck to a particular mains voltage. No switching from 110V to 240V and back at the flick of a switch on the PSU. Small consideration, but still...

@ PuNiSh3r:

A 12V pump can perform the same as a mains powered pump. Voltage alone is not the issue. We all know from science class that P = V x I (Watts = Voltage x Amps). So a 12V pump could just use more amps. This is why Pelt systems, even though running on only 12-24V, still need a seperate supply that can give you a nasty shock. Besides that pumps differ in design and efficiency. It is not a straightforward equation...

crane · 08-18-2002, 05:23 PM

I have a Z4 block from OCH....its the older version with the 3/8 barbs. I don't have a problem with the product or OCH. The block was well machined and needed only a slight lapping to remove some machining ripples.
It has excellent flow with a Danner 350gph mag drive using 7/16" tubing. I have a big radiator(mack truck A/C condensor) with 2 120mm fans mounted on it. Running my Duron 1.1 @ 1.90 volts and 8.5 x 150 for 1275 mhz ,chip temps are 26-28 c with a 22 degree ambient. Water temps run 2-3 degrees under chip temp.

I read the thread about the Z4 block having 1/2 inlets being screwed up.... I agree that was bad business, but hopefully that has been redesigned by now. The sump pump in the container idea sucked too....I may try something like that at home, But I wouldn't try to market it as a reliable pumping solution.

Basically... if you haven't bought something from OCH and been dissapointed...don't bust their balls just to join the bandwagon.

jaydee · 08-18-2002, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crane
Running my Duron 1.1 @ 1.90 volts and 8.5 x 150 for 1275 mhz ,chip temps are 26-28 c with a 22 degree ambient. Water temps run 2-3 degrees under chip temp.

Sorry dude you just lost all credibility with that statment.

crane · 08-18-2002, 07:25 PM

Care to elaborate? I have a temp probe in my res...reading 24.5c
MBM reports 27c chip temp. Ambient temp 20c .
What part of that isn't clear?

jaydee · 08-18-2002, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crane
Care to elaborate? I have a temp probe in my res...reading 24.5c
MBM reports 27c chip temp. Ambient temp 20c .
What part of that isn't clear?

The only way that is pysically possible is if the CPU is not a load, otherwise the math shows you are breaking the laws of thermal dynamics. Otherwise your CPU temp probe is way off. Water and ambient sound about right though. If you have ANY ait circulating around the socket you onboard probe is wrong.

You are running at about 68watts with those settings, that puts the CW curve at 0.0588 which is far superior to anyone elses can get on the planet with ANY strait cooling system.

Maybe that is clear enough to you that your probe is either wrong or you are reporting idle temps which is worthless to begine with.

redleader · 08-18-2002, 07:39 PM

Quote:

12V pump can perform the same as a mains powered pump. Voltage alone is not the issue.

So you're say AC motors are the same as DC?

08-16-2002, 12:10 PM	#1
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	its the OCH ipkonfig Review all over again... Ok I know this should be posted in the News around the web forum. But this is watercooling related. Can anyone vouch for the pump used in this case? Seems like the same old OCH crap. Also seems like the ambient temp was some where around 15-17c from the temps the guy got. That pump is better than an ehiem? LOL.....check it out and have a laugh/rant/anger...etc http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/...x_watercooled/ __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-16-2002, 02:38 PM	#6
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Two users use the jabsco. Both have very positive experiences with it (both, I think, use a Maze 3 block). The pump runs a bit hot but that does not appear to affect inner case temps (Stays around 34 degrees Celsius) or block performance. __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

08-16-2002, 09:37 PM	#7
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Muwahah.. That Z4 sucks ass! This review sucked so much CPUFX and OCH c0ck it's not funny.. I didn't even read it all.. I was nearly ready to throw up by the 2nd page. 3 GALLONS PER MINUTE ON THAT PUMP! MY ARSE! My damn via aqua 1300 BARELY gets 3GPM.. that's a 360GPH pump! no way in hell is a mag drive 12v pump going to get ANYTHING CLOSE to 3GPM.. they just took the GPH and divided.. got 3GPM.. They didn't even actually TEST it themselves.. stupid suckers. Wait.. that means that my via aqua only gets 180GPH.. Hmmm.. takes 20seconds to fill 1 gallon with my pump.. well.. that sucks.. it's getting old though.. pushing like 8months now.. plus the damn thing came apart cuz of all the force I was putting on it the one day.. putting in a barb.. and I had to JB weld it back together.. so what do you expect? Last edited by \|PuNiSh3R\|; 08-16-2002 at 09:41 PM.

08-17-2002, 12:50 AM	#9
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	What follows was just emailed to the reviewer. There are many people that have been burned by OCH and their crappy products. In comparison to the rest of the watercooling products available from other manufacturers OCH's are regarded as being the bottom of the barrel (In the observed watercooling community, don't get me wrong my rig is wc'd). We all would like to know the ambient room temp during your test, since your review means absolutely nothing without this information. Also what version of the block did you really test, since your showing both in your review, i.e. the copper or alu bottomed one? Have you ever used an Ehiem pump? If so, for what reason do you conclude the CMD pump to be better? You never mentioned the length to which the CMD pump would be reliable to run 24hrs/ 7days a week or years for that matter. Ehiems have a proven history of being reliable over a long duration of time, such as 5 years or more. They are also magdrive pumps. “The pump reviewed is a Jabsco pump, which only one other user has here (ProForums). It does go for about $100.00 . Unfortunately, it is quite poorly rated, at 180 gph@0 head, with max pressure around 4 psi. It was originally designed as a booster pump, for RV water systems.” Why would a user want to spend 100.00$ when they could purchase a better pump for 20-70$ (Much better for the 70$ price)? Or buy a better kit/case from another manufacturer? Please, don't get me wrong, I don't know you and don't hold anything against you or your site, but if you're going to give the user the dirt, please give them to real dirt...... ~Peace __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

08-17-2002, 02:08 AM	#11
FRAGN'STIEN Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rathdrum, ID Posts: 380	Good for you ambient. Let us know if and when you get contact from the reveiwer. I would like to know what his justification is for such bull. When I first got into W/Cing, articles like that were gold to me because I didn't know anything about W/Cing, and was looking for reviews on kits. Now some poor noob is going to stumble upon that review and buy that piece of junk. __________________ This space for rent

08-16-2002, 01:06 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	No room temp and no water temp. Results are meaningless. Also would like to see at least one pic of the temps on the probe he used. Review was useless and misleading. They showed the new Z4 being mounted but off to the side they showed the old Z4 copper bottom. They are 2 completely different Z4 blocks! As for the pump I belive it is the new one that replaced the old bilge pump one.

08-16-2002, 01:16 PM	#3
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	indeed, the temps did seem a bit weird, i was thinking: how could this guy be using a pelt, without mentioning it in the review. silly me.

08-17-2002, 01:45 AM	#10
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Nicely put Ambient.. I can't STAND CPUFX or OCH.. That Z4 block is the biggest joke EVER.

08-17-2002, 03:14 AM	#12
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	u got it right there fragn'stein. not too long ago i was also a watercooling n00b. i can thank god that at that time there was only the koolance case, that i could'nt grab a hold of. me too was looking allover the web for wc reviews, and believed most everything that was out there. thankfully at that time i was only able to get a hold of swiftech and dangerden products. i now see collegues from work showing me reviews to tell me new gr8 stuff for watercooling is out and that they want to try it... we can only hope they stumble over these forums, or for that matter any watercooling forum. anyhow, that kind of review is sickening as i would have believed it instantly 1 year ago. a good indicator for a review would be if the reviewer states if he got his equipment for free or bought it himself. after reading some colums of ed on overclockers a good indicator is also to c if the reviewer has anything negative to say about the subject, coz hardly anything in life is ever perfect.

08-17-2002, 06:01 AM	#13
Stepback Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 52	I'm the user with this pump, Check out the thread. http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...?threadid=3321 You might want to checkout this tread as well. http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...?threadid=3453 __________________ Stepback Maintaining today for a better tommorrow. Last edited by Stepback; 08-17-2002 at 06:06 AM.

08-17-2002, 01:42 PM	#14
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	Right people, we all know that OCH / CPUfx stuff is crap for various reasons. And we know this was a bad review. Still, before you slate the pump in question, don't make the same mistake the reviewers made, and actually examine the thing, OK? There are two (2, II) users out there who use this pump and seem quite happy with it. Reliability, performance and noise appear fine. It is continuously rated. If you really don't like it, that's OK, stick with an Eheim. I may, it's a good pump. But let's not condemn something just because OCH / CPUfx happened to stumble on it as well. __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

08-17-2002, 03:16 PM	#15
FRAGN'STIEN Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rathdrum, ID Posts: 380	nexxo and stepback. The pump itself wasn't the reason for my comments. Jabsco makes some great quality, although expensive, pumps. My comments were directed more towards the over all (kit) review, or lack there of. __________________ This space for rent Last edited by FRAGN'STIEN; 08-17-2002 at 03:22 PM.

08-17-2002, 05:05 PM	#17
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	Ambient, ambient... ROTFLOL! I haven't heard such a flame of a person/place or thing is a LONG TIME, I needed to see that... thanks! HAHA __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

08-17-2002, 05:23 PM	#19
Khanh Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: allentown Posts: 11	i have the z4 block and the old pump. the old pump suxs i will never buy anything from them again. Now i use a danner 350 gph pump. It doesn't really get hot and its really quite. my temps are like 34 idle if thte air is on.

08-18-2002, 12:52 PM	#20
nexxo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brimingham, UK Posts: 385	@ Khanh: The old CPUfx pump is a bilge pump: a submersible pump which was designed to get any leaking or waste water inside a boat hull, well, outside the boat hull. As such it has not much pressure behind it, and is not continuously rated. Hence it's crap for watercooling. @ Ambient: You're right about the Eheims. No pump is better than an Eheim (IMNERHO). Nevertheless, my trouble with a mains pump, even if rigged to switch on with the computer, is that you're stuck to a particular mains voltage. No switching from 110V to 240V and back at the flick of a switch on the PSU. Small consideration, but still... @ PuNiSh3r: A 12V pump can perform the same as a mains powered pump. Voltage alone is not the issue. We all know from science class that P = V x I (Watts = Voltage x Amps). So a 12V pump could just use more amps. This is why Pelt systems, even though running on only 12-24V, still need a seperate supply that can give you a nasty shock. Besides that pumps differ in design and efficiency. It is not a straightforward equation... __________________ "There is a thin line between magic and madness"

08-18-2002, 05:23 PM	#21
crane Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 82	I have a Z4 block from OCH....its the older version with the 3/8 barbs. I don't have a problem with the product or OCH. The block was well machined and needed only a slight lapping to remove some machining ripples. It has excellent flow with a Danner 350gph mag drive using 7/16" tubing. I have a big radiator(mack truck A/C condensor) with 2 120mm fans mounted on it. Running my Duron 1.1 @ 1.90 volts and 8.5 x 150 for 1275 mhz ,chip temps are 26-28 c with a 22 degree ambient. Water temps run 2-3 degrees under chip temp. I read the thread about the Z4 block having 1/2 inlets being screwed up.... I agree that was bad business, but hopefully that has been redesigned by now. The sump pump in the container idea sucked too....I may try something like that at home, But I wouldn't try to market it as a reliable pumping solution. Basically... if you haven't bought something from OCH and been dissapointed...don't bust their balls just to join the bandwagon. __________________ dirt rules

08-18-2002, 07:25 PM	#23
crane Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 82	Care to elaborate? I have a temp probe in my res...reading 24.5c MBM reports 27c chip temp. Ambient temp 20c . What part of that isn't clear? __________________ dirt rules

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