Help the Village Idiot out please

[DSREC]

Alrighty, so I've been running an AMD T-Bird 1.1Gig with a Super-Orb and basically just extra case cooling via a few 80mm fans. It's kinda boring at this point. I originally bought an AMD b/c I was hoping to overclock. Even with all the fans and etc, this case and etc gets pretty hot. I think the CPU is usually running @ 92F under a decent load. Um.. oh yea, so my point of this message is that I want to get this puppy running faster! It is on an ABIT KT7 mobo, so there's my first start towards overclocking. I need advice/help on whether or not I should use peltiers or watercooling or what. It's all confusing because after reading a couple hundred message boards, all you have is 50% of people saying to do this, and the other half telling you not to!
I live in NY, so the whether gets a bit humid from time to time, however I always have the AC going and so thats not a big problem I dont think. Please help with any info as it will be greatly appreciated.

[GuyBFF]

OK, this is all open to a lot of debate, but probably what you'll need to do is decide how serious you are about overclocking, cooling and reliability.


1. Air Cooling:
-Time proven
-Some heatsinks like Swiftech MC462-a can come close to water cooling, but sound like a vacuum
-You could add real case fans like 120mmx38mm, those 80mmx25mm hardly flow 1/3 the cfm.
-The hotter in the case the hotter the CPU (take your sides off and compare the CPU temp).

2. Water Cooling
-I believe my system is as reliable as air cooling, but I might be dreaming.
-Pumps can fail. When a fan fails in a air cooled system the CPU usually lives due to the heatsink and the other case fans. If your pump fails you need some way of shutting down your computer, but luckily there are programs that can do this as soon as it gets warm, MBM5 for example.
-Any decent water setup will kill air cooling.
-Pay special attention to pump quality and avoiding aluminum / copper mix for reliability due to corrosion.
-No fear of condensation as water temp never falls below room temp (this is what I use).
-There is a fear of water leakage but if you build it right, use clamps and high quality equipment this should never happen (hopefully).

3. Water Cooling With TEC (Peltier)
- Well first extra care should be taken to make sure your using the correct TEC for your CPU.
-Condensation may and probably will become a concern as soon as you pass room temperature. Take steps to protect the CPU, motherboard, etc.
-The cooling system not only needs to transfer the heat from the CPU, but the TEC also creates extra heat in the process of cooling (lots of heat, so build accordingly).


-Overclock with your current cooler. Maybe see what it'll do first? Watch your temperature and my rule is keep it below 50C MAX. (but others will debate). Lap your heatsink and use Arctic Silver II (same applies for water and TECs)
-Upgrade your case fans, they will still aid if you go to water or water with TEC.
-Build a great water cooling system and when you build it decide if TECs would be considered in your future. If they are you could spend a little more now and buy suitable products so you won't need to spend double later
-If you really want the TEC, add it and go extreme.

Also, read everyting you can first and ask lots of questions. Take 25% of everything you read as true and consider the fact that there will be those that will push there own products (can't blame them). Theres a lot to learn to do it right, but come up with a plan and we'll all debate it until you have ten, but that's what we're here for.

[DSREC]

Thanks for all your info. It is very much appreciated. Since my computer already sounds like a monster (so loud its scary), the whole noise issue doesnt really bother me. I'd rather have better performace - but I also don't want to go way out there to an extreme and basically build a new computer that I can move around easily (thinking about water spillage here). I think that is why I was considering going the ole' Peltier route because I figured I pop in a little thing, more fans, bigger HSF and voila! better performance. Basically less modifications away from the original and better performance. Course if the TEC dies on me, that can have terrible results. Argh! Too many choices... Lastly to anyone out there, has anyone had any experience with the Zalman CNPS3100 Heatsink/Fan? It looks like a paper fan spread out which is good because of the increased total surface area.Overclockersonline.com Review. Alright thanks again

[GuyBFF]

The Zalman heatsinks look like a good idea but shows very poor performance when tested (by many sites).

Consider if you use a TEC with air cooling that the heatsink will need to remove the heat from the CPU plus the TEC which creates LOTS of heat while working. If the heatsink isn't good enough, the temps will climb fast under load, and will be higher than without the TEC. This is why everyone usually goes to water cooling with TECs and todays hotter processors. A decent water cooling system will have capacity of probably four times the best air heat sink.

Also, a properly built water cooler can be a closed system, or a system with a sealed resevoir, and it doesn't matter how you handle it, there should be NO leaks.

[redleader]

An air-cooled TEC and Athlon really isn't possible. You would have better temps with just the HSF you put on the TEC. Besides considering you bought an Orb for overclocking I wouldn't recommend you try TECs. Too many things to be concerned with.

Get a better heatsink. If you don't mind 55 dB get a 7000RPM fan and a solid copper heatsink from globalwin. Otherwise start looking into watercooling.

Oh and your current temps aren't too bad. You might break 1GHz with what you have now.

[DSREC]

Well I never bought an Orb for the purposes of overclocking. Though I might be the village idiot, I'm not that stupid. I know that a TEC with only HSF cooling is going to be tough, more heat being created for only a little amount of cooling. Water cooling.... seems like its the next logical stop, but I dont know. Haha, even though I know for a fact it works wonders and etc, I guess something about water and all that voltage so close My main concern is that I have a somewhat small case (LIAN LI PC-10). It's definitely not a full tower, much more along the lines of a Mid-Tower. Anyway, if I want to keep the pump and radiator inside the case, isn't the heat from the radiator going to be just as bad since it's staying in the case? Of course proper case cooling would cure that! I know but still gotta wonder. Probably a long-shot, but anyone had any real success with something of a AC compressor and etc? Hell, even a closed loop of pressurized CO2 might even work if you include some sort of expansion chamber.

[GuyBFF]

I vent my radiator into the case (it's front mounted) and my motherboard temps are a little less than before H20. I assume this is de to a warm airflow everywhere from the radiator rather than a heat sink blowing it on the motherboard chipset and graphics card (before it mixes with other air, and leaves).

If you are really concerned, mount the radiator in the back or top to vent out, or in the front with a little ducting to side vent.

Many of us only have mid size cases. You just have to plan a little more, but shouldn't pose a problem.

[redleader]

Now your HSF dumps heat into the case anyway. If it worries you get an extra fan or a blow hole for the radiator.