Shim between Waterblock and CPU?

Shreder-X · 11-26-2002, 05:54 PM

Just wondering before i put my order in for a MCW5000 block ... first wc setup so don't know ?

phreenet · 11-26-2002, 06:26 PM

shims are for girls and steve

DarkEdge · 11-26-2002, 06:30 PM

Sorry, but I hate when people say that. I used one after my Duron core cracked. It was left untouched for 3 months until my comp went dead one night. There is nothing wrong with using shims. If you use one it just means your cautious.

mfpmax · 11-26-2002, 07:46 PM

Shims are cheap insurance

I hear that the XPs are tougher cores though.

But the older CPUs...

Anyway...its only $6-15 for one...if you feel you need this insurance, go for it. When I went water...I put the shim on my mom's computer.

I've removed my XP1800 at least...10 times since I bought it, and I have yet to screw up without a shim.

Blackeagle · 11-26-2002, 08:32 PM

The system I intend for this coming year will be my first w/c as well. And I agree completly with Darkedge, better safe than sorry.

For the highly experianced they may well not be needed, but I'm not. And I won't risk killing a CPU for a bit of bravado.

Wouldn't feel to kool to kill a 4-$500.00 Barton, or worse a p4 @$600+$.

ambient · 11-26-2002, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackeagle
The system I intend for this coming year will be my first w/c as well. And I agree completly with Darkedge, better safe than sorry.

For the highly experianced they may well not be needed, but I'm not. And I won't risk killing a CPU for a bit of bravado.

Wouldn't feel to kool to kill a 4-$500.00 Barton, or worse a p4 @$600+$.

can you get a shim for a p4?

DarkEdge · 11-26-2002, 10:52 PM

I don't think they do, but you don't need one for the p4. Thats what the heat spreader does.

MadDogMe · 11-27-2002, 04:19 AM

If you are careful you don't need one, IMO it's more of the 'socket/lug~sprung-clip' type mounts (with a screwdriver) that need them, where a slip while mounting could put all the pressure on one side of the core, or the block itself could act as a lever if not mounted properly, stepped up onto the socket edge for example...
With the 'four mobo hole' mounting method, or a socket mount that you tighten a central screw down on after clip is fitted to socket, I don't think it's needed at all...

#Rotor · 11-27-2002, 05:01 AM

I would not say it for girls.... there are some very extreme ladies around, that would take great offence, being thrown into the same trashbag along with, you know who.

g.l.amour · 11-27-2002, 05:02 AM

one thing to take into consideration

a shim requires your pc to be laid flat on its side. now i wanted a shim too (shame, shame), but, if i have to lay my pc on its side to keep the shim from falling off; my res is going to be emptied quite fast on my floor ;-)

sooo, no shim for me

bigben2k · 11-27-2002, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
one thing to take into consideration

a shim requires your pc to be laid flat on its side. now i wanted a shim too (shame, shame), but, if i have to lay my pc on its side to keep the shim from falling off; my res is going to be emptied quite fast on my floor ;-)

sooo, no shim for me

(BTW, congrats on your 500th post!)

Now where did you hear that? That's false.

Shims are made so that you can squeeze them around the pads, on the Athlon.

What one has to be careful with is the fact that the core rises somewhere between 0.80 and 0.88 mm (from AMD specs) above the ceramic surface, so the shim must be lower than that, otherwise the block will not be contacting the core, and the cpu will fry.

On the opposite side, if the shim is too thin, then there still exists a possibility for the core to be crushed, albeit a smaller one. The pads are supposed to help prevent this (they're about 1.5 mm thick).

The shim prevents the side (and corner) of the core from getting crushed/damaged/chipped in the event that the pressure on the block becomes uneven (typically when someone dismounts the block).

So if you have a steady hand and a good head on your shoulders, you won't use a shim, but if you're like me

, you'll measure that shim before putting it on.

crane · 11-27-2002, 09:13 AM

I take the little rubber pads off of a chip I killed and remount them on the new chip closer to the core.
Seems to work for me.

g.l.amour · 11-27-2002, 09:45 AM

now that last one is a very good idea, about the redundant rubber feet, too bad i threw away a KIA 1500+ last week.

oops ben, didn't know that one; i was thinking that the shim might tilt when the pc was standing.

thx , may there be many posts to come; lol

Cova · 11-27-2002, 10:29 AM

Hmm..., I personally hate shims, but I'm wondering if they could have some benefit in a chilled WC system (or direct phase-change or something). If the entire block is sub-ambient (or sub-freezing), all insulated already around the entire block/socket/everything in the area, do you think it would effect stability to put in a shim? Cover both sides of the shim with non-conductive thermal grease (in a VERY thin layer or you get BB2K's too-thick shim problem above - even better to do this with a slightly undersized shim), and then chill the entire packaging of the CPU.

I'd love to hear from someone with both a chiller and a shim (or just a chiller and willing to spend $15 more for science), as I'll be building my own chiller soon and am contemplating what effect it would have. If no-ones tried it by then I'll do it myself, but you'll be waiting a few months minimum for the results.

bytesyzed · 11-27-2002, 11:16 AM

Personally, I think shims are a gimmick. But if it gives you peace of mind, I guess it won't do you any harm. However, I've heard that some people actually get higher temps when using a shim so you might want to do a little research on it before digging in.

mfpmax · 11-27-2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
one thing to take into consideration

a shim requires your pc to be laid flat on its side. now i wanted a shim too (shame, shame), but, if i have to lay my pc on its side to keep the shim from falling off; my res is going to be emptied quite fast on my floor ;-)

sooo, no shim for me

uh what? And no...

I have a tower case, and I had a shim...

If your shim falls...your CPU is already burnt up...from the fact that there is no heatsink...or the heatsink, waterblock, paper weight isn't applying pressure correctly.

phreenet · 11-27-2002, 02:13 PM

Winnies

mfpmax · 11-27-2002, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phreenet
Winnies

Weenies?

Puzzdre · 11-27-2002, 02:37 PM

Sugar frosted?

mfpmax · 11-27-2002, 02:41 PM

Ok...not gonna go there

g.l.amour · 11-27-2002, 02:45 PM

now its my turn to congratulate another member at his 500th post

cheers mfpmax, may there be many more to come

mfpmax · 11-27-2002, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
now its my turn to congratulate another member at his 500th post

cheers mfpmax, may there be many more to come

eh...i've got 11600 on another forum...

post counts are much to me...

But thanks for the kind gesture

See you at 1000

g.l.amour · 11-27-2002, 03:36 PM

and what other forum would that be???

not a pr0nforum ey; lol

mfpmax · 11-27-2002, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
and what other forum would that be???

not a pr0nforum ey; lol

the one that lies and cheats people...need I say more...

11-26-2002, 05:54 PM	#1
Shreder-X Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Clarkson - Potsdam NY Posts: 24	Shim between Waterblock and CPU? Just wondering before i put my order in for a MCW5000 block ... first wc setup so don't know ?

11-26-2002, 06:26 PM	#2
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	shims are for girls and steve __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

11-26-2002, 06:30 PM	#3
DarkEdge Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 176	Sorry, but I hate when people say that. I used one after my Duron core cracked. It was left untouched for 3 months until my comp went dead one night. There is nothing wrong with using shims. If you use one it just means your cautious. __________________ Intel p4 2.26@3.0 Abit BD7II-Raid,1gb Corsair 3200 ATI Radeon 9700 3 80gb Seagates 3 40gb Maxtors

11-26-2002, 07:46 PM	#4
mfpmax Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Rockledge,FL,US Posts: 731	Shims are cheap insurance I hear that the XPs are tougher cores though. But the older CPUs... Anyway...its only $6-15 for one...if you feel you need this insurance, go for it. When I went water...I put the shim on my mom's computer. I've removed my XP1800 at least...10 times since I bought it, and I have yet to screw up without a shim. __________________ My old and retired watercooling setup. Watercooled K6-2 450 at 600 Also Retired - Watercooling an XP1800@1782MHz

11-26-2002, 10:52 PM	#7
DarkEdge Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 176	I don't think they do, but you don't need one for the p4. Thats what the heat spreader does. __________________ Intel p4 2.26@3.0 Abit BD7II-Raid,1gb Corsair 3200 ATI Radeon 9700 3 80gb Seagates 3 40gb Maxtors

11-26-2002, 08:32 PM	#5
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	The system I intend for this coming year will be my first w/c as well. And I agree completly with Darkedge, better safe than sorry. For the highly experianced they may well not be needed, but I'm not. And I won't risk killing a CPU for a bit of bravado. Wouldn't feel to kool to kill a 4-$500.00 Barton, or worse a p4 @$600+$.

11-27-2002, 04:19 AM	#8
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	If you are careful you don't need one, IMO it's more of the 'socket/lug~sprung-clip' type mounts (with a screwdriver) that need them, where a slip while mounting could put all the pressure on one side of the core, or the block itself could act as a lever if not mounted properly, stepped up onto the socket edge for example... With the 'four mobo hole' mounting method, or a socket mount that you tighten a central screw down on after clip is fitted to socket, I don't think it's needed at all...

11-27-2002, 05:01 AM	#9
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I would not say it for girls.... there are some very extreme ladies around, that would take great offence, being thrown into the same trashbag along with, you know who. __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-27-2002, 05:02 AM	#10
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	one thing to take into consideration a shim requires your pc to be laid flat on its side. now i wanted a shim too (shame, shame), but, if i have to lay my pc on its side to keep the shim from falling off; my res is going to be emptied quite fast on my floor ;-) sooo, no shim for me __________________ yo soy un tiburón

11-27-2002, 09:13 AM	#12
crane Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 82	I take the little rubber pads off of a chip I killed and remount them on the new chip closer to the core. Seems to work for me. __________________ dirt rules

11-27-2002, 09:45 AM	#13
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	now that last one is a very good idea, about the redundant rubber feet, too bad i threw away a KIA 1500+ last week. oops ben, didn't know that one; i was thinking that the shim might tilt when the pc was standing. thx , may there be many posts to come; lol __________________ yo soy un tiburón

11-27-2002, 10:29 AM	#14
Cova Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 247	Hmm..., I personally hate shims, but I'm wondering if they could have some benefit in a chilled WC system (or direct phase-change or something). If the entire block is sub-ambient (or sub-freezing), all insulated already around the entire block/socket/everything in the area, do you think it would effect stability to put in a shim? Cover both sides of the shim with non-conductive thermal grease (in a VERY thin layer or you get BB2K's too-thick shim problem above - even better to do this with a slightly undersized shim), and then chill the entire packaging of the CPU. I'd love to hear from someone with both a chiller and a shim (or just a chiller and willing to spend $15 more for science), as I'll be building my own chiller soon and am contemplating what effect it would have. If no-ones tried it by then I'll do it myself, but you'll be waiting a few months minimum for the results.

11-27-2002, 11:16 AM	#15
bytesyzed Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hell's Kitchen Posts: 23	Personally, I think shims are a gimmick. But if it gives you peace of mind, I guess it won't do you any harm. However, I've heard that some people actually get higher temps when using a shim so you might want to do a little research on it before digging in.

11-27-2002, 02:13 PM	#17
phreenet Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gloucester, Virginia Posts: 356	Winnies __________________ Dual Pentium!!! 933@1107 Liquid Cooled.

11-27-2002, 02:37 PM	#19
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Sugar frosted? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-27-2002, 02:41 PM	#20
mfpmax Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Rockledge,FL,US Posts: 731	Ok...not gonna go there __________________ My old and retired watercooling setup. Watercooled K6-2 450 at 600 Also Retired - Watercooling an XP1800@1782MHz

11-27-2002, 02:45 PM	#21
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	now its my turn to congratulate another member at his 500th post cheers mfpmax, may there be many more to come __________________ yo soy un tiburón

11-27-2002, 03:36 PM	#23
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	and what other forum would that be??? not a pr0nforum ey; lol __________________ yo soy un tiburón

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