lots of watercooling questions! plz help

[artemis0007]

Hey guys, I was hoping that some people could help me design a water cooling system. I'll list my questions so it would be easier to answer (sorta like a test).

The case I plan on using is the YY-0221B mini-cube server (it looks spiffy). I'll be putting my Tyan K7 Thunder with 2 1.2 GHz procs into it, as well as 4 IDE HDs, 1 SCSI HD in a bay cooler, 5 SCSI HDs in an ICY Dock, 1 DVD, 1 CD-RW, 1 floppy, 1 zip, 1 vid card, 1 snd card, 1 modem, and 1 IDE RAID card.

Lots of stuff ain't it? You can image the amount of heat dumped. Okay on with the questions.

1) Since I have two procs (no pelts or oc'ing because I want 110% stability) should I use 2 water circuits, one for each proc?

2) Should I use BeCooling's AquaCoil radiator or Overclock-Watercool's Black Ice low pressure drop radiator?

3) What kind of water pump should I use (brand/model)?

4) I know I want a reservoir tank (because filling and bleeding is a pain), but should the pump be in the tank or outside the tank?

5) Should I try to use air ducting for the radiators? And if I should, is it alright if I pump in the air from the bottom of the case (assuming that it's on wheels)?

6) If I used the Black Ice radiators, would there be ANY adverse effects if I mounted them to the top of the case (because of space constraints)?

6a) assuming it's okay, should I mount it with the fins protruding into the case or protruding out?

7) Shoud I get 12V pumps that connect to the PSU or 110V pumps that use the AC?

7a) If I use the 110V pumps, is there a way to turn them on from a switch on the outside of the case (assuming there is a switch)?

8) What is the difference between Purple Ice (BeCooling) and Water wetter?

9) Should I use 1/2" OD tubing or 3/8" OD tubing?

10) What kind of tubing should I use (silicon...)?

11) Would it be worthwhile to have a copper HSF (like the SK6) attached to the water block (assuming it fits, or I get it custom from OCWC) as a redundancy measure?

I think that's all of the questions that I have for now. I just wanted to clear these questions up before I bought anything because water cooling can take a big bite outta my bank account :|

I appreciate any advice you guys can give!

[XOD]

Damn dude, Unleashing a barrage is more like it I think I can help with a few.

for 1) you can just do a Y splitter and cool them from the same circuit

for 4) You should have it on the outside to help lower your h2o temps

for 5) YES

for 6) not if you duct in fresh air

for 7) 110 if you have a smaller PSU (<350w)

for 8) I don't know the difference but I hear Water Wetter is better

for 9) 1/2"

for 10) as long as its not chilled, then it doesn't really matter, if it is chilled, then silicon

for 11) if you have good quality pumps and the option for instant off (in your bios)in case your pumps fail then its no ness.

Thats all the help I can give for now

[joeyd]

i sugest getting a black ice 2 instead of two black ices .....

as for where to put them... i'm building a box that will fit my radiator , pump and res .... this way i don't add more heat to the case.... i just set up my buddy in that case with air cooling....all i have to say is you have so much room in that case you should be able to fit everything in it...

[Kevin]

Artemis, i've been working on a YY minicube project w/ dual heatercores...
Look
...




I still need to convert my big momma to 1/2" ID barbs and order sheet metal to make purdy shrouds...
Back to your questions (the pics were just to give you an idea of what you could do w/ the YY cube).
1. You COULD w/ this case (notice how I used dual heatercores). Would be a pain in the ass.
2. heatercores!!! mod them yourself!!
3. Eheim 1250
4. outside
5. yeah you want to space the fans slightly away from the radiators to make sure airflow get to right behind the motor. Then use some ducting. Air coming from the bottom is fine. Make sure to use some sort of dust filter.
6. Not really... I have my fans blowing in on my heatercores. This way I get cool air coming into the case through the heatercore rather than having hot air that was inside the case exhausted through the heatercore. So that's the only minor downfall. Dunno what you mean bout the fins...
7. AC ones... see some procooling articles to see how you can make them turn on w/ the case.
8. basically the same I think
9. 1/2" ID if you can. 3/8" is good too.
10. silicone tubing from www.mcmaster.com. Get the thickwalled stuff...
11. Don't put a heatsink on the waterblock.
Wow that was an airstrike of questions .
-Kevin

[XOD]

not to bad of a setup, how do you like that "big momma x2" rad? that thing is huge, how well does it cool?

[redleader]

If you can fit a heatercore its worth it. At least until the new BlackIces show up they are unbeatable for performance and price, even if mounting them is a nightmare.

[ 09-26-2001: Message edited by: redleader ]

[Kevin]

I assume it'll cool like a mofo . If you noticed, things still are missing and not finished in that badboy. It is a HUGE work in progres...
-Kevin

Originally posted by XOD:
not to bad of a setup, how do you like that "big momma x2" rad? that thing is huge, how well does it cool?

[Turbokeu]

I will try to give you some answers on your questions.

1) Two water circuits are better of course but more expensive (2 pumps, 2 rads...) but if you go for a single circuit put the two waterblocks in parallel with a "Y". With a series connection your second CPU will always be hotter (10°C or more...)

2) Personally I prefer the new AquaCoil II with 1/2" connections, it cools better than the Black Ice (3/8" connections) and is less expensive (see Radiator Roundup at http://www.procooling.com/reviews/h...on_1_-_8.shtml, although the tested AquaCoil was the old 3/8" version). Heater cores like the Big Mama work better and are less expensive but they are less compact and do not have fan or mounting holes.
It's also a matter of space constraints in your case.

3) Any waterpump is OK as long as it fits in your setup (hose connections, size...) Take a pump with at least a couple of hundreds of gallons/minute (mag drive pumps don't like back pressure, so the real flow is less than half or a quarter of the specified flow). The best are Eheim (but expensive and big) like the 1048 or the 1250. Danner pumps are fine but they tend to "rattle" (although there is a fix on internet on how to glue the impeller to the axle).

4) Inline is better for the temps (pump dissapates less heat to the water - even my inline Sicce Idra (25Watts) adds 5°C to the water with the radiatorfan not running!) and you don't need a real reservoir if you have a "fill & bleed" system with valves and/or an "airtrap" (see my threads http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...c&f=2&t=000555 and http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...c&f=2&t=000647

5) Definately Yes! (see my thread http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...&f=2&t=000608.

6) Not at all.

6a) As far as the airflow of the radiatorfan is well ducted through the rad and then outside the case everything is just fine. I f you use one fan on the radiator make it "suck" air through the rad through a shroud. Axial fans have a dead spot in the middle and by using a shroud (about 1") the fan will be less noisy (less air turbulency). (see also my thread http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...&f=2&t=000555.

7) 12V pumps are more expensive and more noisy.
Just use regular 110V AC pumps with a relay connected to the PSU. That way your pump is powered on together with the PSU and you can't forget to power on the pump. If you need help for the schematic just tell me.

7a) See 7.

8) AFAIK none, I use Purple Ice because it was easier to obtain in Belgium. Both are anti-algae, anti-corrosion additives and tend to drop the water temps by a few degrees due to the decreased surface tension of the cooling water. Use a mix of 2oz in 1 gallon of demineralized or distilled water.

9) Definately go for 1/2" tubing. Like I said before, mag drive pumps do not like back pressure, so use the biggest possible ID.
Try to not have an ID less than 9 to 10mm in the hole circuit (including waterblocks).

10) I like silicon hoses. They are very soft, do not kink that easy as PVC hoses and do not tend to become hard in time as the PVC one. Is more expensive and less transparent than PVC hose.

11) Aircooling on waterblocks is not efficient. Just use an automatic shutdown utility in case of pump failure (like Shutdown Now) when the CPU temp exceeds a predefined treshold.
A well build watercooling setup is as reliable as standard aircooling.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion.


CD

[resago]

8) I find that brown gravy has great thermal properties, not to mention tastes great on just about everything.

[artemis0007]

Thanks for the input!

Now I can refine my questions a little bit more.

12) I heard a lot of people telling me that the Eheim 1250 pumps are pretty good. How big is it exactly (or approximately)?

13) Is there any significant difference between the Black Ice II and the AquaCoil II (price, size, performance)?

14) Is there ANY disadvantage to having the pump turn on at same time as computer (pump relayed to PSU)?
Clarification: If I had the pump connected to an external switch, then I could turn on the pump before I turn on the computer. Is this better/no difference/worse?

15) Is a big reservoir tank necessary or is a little on (say 4" x 4" x 2") okay?

16) Since I won't be putting an HSF on the waterblock, what kind of water block should I get (I want to use the 4 motherboard mountings instead of the socket clips; using an AMD MP)?

17) Assuming I use the Aquacoil II Radiators, would there be any adverse effects (noise, heat, etc...) if I stacked one on top of the other (space constraints)?

18) How do I make a shroud?

18a) Where can I get sheet metal for the shroud and ducting?

19) Where can I buy no spill couplers for the tubing?

Thanks for the previous input. I hope you guys can help me out on the new questions! Thank you!

[TNT2bluz]

Some sneak peeks...

[Turbokeu]

Originally posted by artemis0007:
Thanks for the input!

Now I can refine my questions a little bit more.

12) I heard a lot of people telling me that the Eheim 1250 pumps are pretty good. How big is it exactly (or approximately)?

13) Is there any significant difference between the Black Ice II and the AquaCoil II (price, size, performance)?

14) Is there ANY disadvantage to having the pump turn on at same time as computer (pump relayed to PSU)?
Clarification: If I had the pump connected to an external switch, then I could turn on the pump before I turn on the computer. Is this better/no difference/worse?

15) Is a big reservoir tank necessary or is a little on (say 4" x 4" x 2") okay?

16) Since I won't be putting an HSF on the waterblock, what kind of water block should I get (I want to use the 4 motherboard mountings instead of the socket clips; using an AMD MP)?

17) Assuming I use the Aquacoil II Radiators, would there be any adverse effects (noise, heat, etc...) if I stacked one on top of the other (space constraints)?

18) How do I make a shroud?

18a) Where can I get sheet metal for the shroud and ducting?

19) Where can I buy no spill couplers for the tubing?

Thanks for the previous input. I hope you guys can help me out on the new questions! Thank you!

12) see http://www.eheim.com.

13) I wouldn't know (Black Ice II is not yet out).

14) AFAIK, no disadvantage.

15) Why bother with a reservoir, make an inline system with a good airtrap.(see http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...c&f=2&t=000555 and http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...&f=2&t=000647)
If you use an Eheim pump submerged, you will need a reservoir the size of a bucket...

16) Swiftech MCW462 (with modded connections) or DD Maze2 or Fixittt's Spir@l waterblock (see http://dtekcustoms.safeshopper.com/7/31.htm?219).

17) If they have both their own fan and own in- and outtake I don't see any problem.
If you want to use them in the same circuit, connect them in parallel with Y-connectors.

18) See my thread http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...&f=2&t=000608.

18a) I don't know where to find Alu sheet there where you live. In Brussels I know about two stores that sell any kind of Alu sheets. Both are specialized Alu resellers.

19) I don't have a clue. (why use them, try to minimize flow losses in your setup)

CD

[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: Turbokeu ]

[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: Turbokeu ]

[artemis0007]

The couplers are quick disconnects. I would like to use them for the waterblocks and pumps so I can easily swap them out of the circuit without having to bleed the system and them refill.

Thanks for the response!

[redleader]

Is there ANY disadvantage to having the pump turn on at same time as computer (pump relayed to PSU)?
Clarification: If I had the pump connected to an external switch, then I could turn on the pump before I turn on the computer. Is this better/no difference/worse?

No problem having them go on at the same time. In fact I'd recommend it. That way you don't have to worry about forgetting to switch on the pump. A dead CPU is a bad thing.

Since I won't be putting an HSF on the waterblock, what kind of water block should I get (I want to use the 4 motherboard mountings instead of the socket clips; using an AMD MP)?

Get a Maze2 from www.dangerden.com. Those bloacks are awesome.

Where can I buy no spill couplers for the tubing?

As in compression fittings? Do a search for "swaged" for more info. Actually I'd really like to do this in my system but they are somewhat hard to get and expensive.

Is a big reservoir tank necessary or is a little on (say 4" x 4" x 2") okay?

A res is just to help you fill. Make it whatever size is best for your setup.