52C full load maze3? what the!@#?

spinky · 12-21-2002, 04:50 AM

okay i need help.

i reinstalled my block twice..didnt help
i dont know the water tempreture, but its not hot to touch.
the waterblock is not hot to touch.

so
im assuming the block isn't seated right.
now

the maze3 block uses the 4 mounting holes, plus nuts to lock it in to place.

i did it with the board in the tower and the case straight..so basically i mount it sideways in...is that the issue?

im suppose to put it laying on its back and install the block?

and one more thing, am i supposed to tighten the nuts to the max? and make the springs all tight? cause if you tighten the nuts to the max, the plastic bolt will go sideways or slant (not straight when tightened too much)

am i doing this wrong? 52C.. pfft.. thats sorta gay.
tempreture outside is 33C, inside my room its lot less than that (aircond)..and it does 52C ..my sk6 before that did 56C on load..

EDIT: first time install, i used a copper shim. 2nd time i reinstall..removed the shim..no diffrence.

Puzzdre · 12-21-2002, 05:54 AM

Did you check if the block is sitting on the raised edge of the socket so it doesn't cover the core all the way?
I don't have the experience with the maze blocks, but my homemade is mounted with shim, and actually I got better temps than without the shim.
It could be that the bolts are'nt tight enough so the thermal joint is poor...:shrug:

Good luck!

Cathar · 12-21-2002, 06:26 AM

Seems about right to me.

Grab a slow spinning quiet case fan and sit it on the back of your video card and point it at the CPU socket area, and then tell us what your CPU temps are.

spinky · 12-21-2002, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
Seems about right to me.

Grab a slow spinning quiet case fan and sit it on the back of your video card and point it at the CPU socket area, and then tell us what your CPU temps are.

okay, will try that after i put my system back together.
i opened it up to reseat the block again.

btw..i used a tupperware for a res.. i can't seem to seal it properly..where the tube comes out..i used goop..the shitty thing doesn't stick to the plastic of the tupperware....... what glue/sealant do i use?

MadDogMe · 12-21-2002, 07:48 AM

Tighten it up, I used brass bolts instead of the bendy nylon ones, they're much better...

What is the rest of your system?, rad, tube, ect...

4DegC below SK6 temps seems OKish, don't forget the SK6 was starting to encroach on H2o temps if a Delta was used, saying that, with a room temp of 21DegC I get a idle temp of 33DegC(it goes cooler but I was sloppy with the AS3[tempry' mount]), for each degree of rise in roomtemp the CPU temp will rise more(than a degree)...

crane · 12-21-2002, 10:06 AM

Not trying to sound patronizing,but are you sure you have water flow going into the WB's inlet (center) barb?
Another good way to make sure you don't have the WB sitting up on the raised edge of the socket is to use a mechanics inspection mirror and a bright light.... angle it just right and you can see all of the way to the core of the chip.
I've removed and replaced WB's dozens of times in the upright position...it has no bearing on the installation. What does come in to play is hose weight and flexibility on the block. Any side to side forces or hose tension is going to screw up your thermal interface with the core.
When tightening the mounting nuts...start out with all 4 just barely threaded on....then alternate tightening each one in a cross ways pattern. Count the turns and do each nut the same until you feel those springs start to give resistance,then give em another full turn and stop. Gently wiggle the WB in a side to side motion... it should move only slightly with just moderate resistance being felt.
Bear in mind I have never installed a maze 3 WB before and I am basing the above on my experiences....it may be different for you.

I have a thermistor epoxied under my CPU so I don't have that anxious "first start up" feeling waiting for the bios screen to load so I can see temps of the chip. Trust me, I've cooked chips with a shoddy installation before..thats a sick feeling.

pHaestus · 12-21-2002, 10:53 AM

For CPU diode temperatures those aren't unreasonable. A little more info on your setup would be useful: what radiator, what fan, and where it is placed in the case. If you are cooling the rad with warm air from the case (top blowhole or something), and that air is 35C, then that would more or less explain things.

spinky · 12-21-2002, 11:51 AM

okay..
to sum it up..

thats 3 sunons up front.. all at 7V each.. its rated 2.4W so u can roughly guess how powerful it is..

the stock casing fan grills was all removed..so its unrestricted and cool fresh air from outside the case is blowing at the rad. rad is black ice pro.. with a delta 120mm X 25mm on it..running at full 12V.. the pump is not THAT powerful..but it got about head till a little above the PSU.. 1200L/hr (probably crap rating)

i believe the problem isn't the rad... thats for sure..
i've been working with PC a long time..but i just started with WC.. so..any tips whatsoever is appreciated.

PS: anybody have any idea how to seal a tupperware/plastic ?

nicozeg · 12-21-2002, 12:33 PM

You did'nt said your cpu tipe, speed and vcore.

Tupperware plastic is impossible to bond

g.l.amour · 12-21-2002, 01:23 PM

it is possible when using pattex hobbyist glue

crane · 12-21-2002, 03:19 PM

Don't know if you can find "Hellmans Mayonaise" where you are...but the plastic jars are great reservoirs. Wide mouth lid so you can toss the pump inside and the jar itself is tough enough to drill and cut threads with a 1/4 npt pipe tap.

Buy a jar,make a big batch of tuna salad for everyone and then proceed to make a good reservoir.

bigben2k · 12-21-2002, 09:31 PM

Don't give up yet, you're doing very well.

Now look at your rad: did you consider ducting?

Once you have a duct installed, I think you'll find better results.

Also, the hose running from the block to the rad: it may be pulling on the block, and lifting/tilting it ever so slightly, which would explain that 56C temp. You may consider giving it some slack.

You may have air trapped in the block, but I think that's unlikely, unless your flow is poor.

jaydee · 12-21-2002, 11:20 PM

My thoughts.

1) The airflow through the rad is severly blocked and looks to also be recycling the already warmed air.
2) The pump is sitting in the resivore. Depending on the heat that pump puts off it could be boosting the water temps significantly, especially being the rad air flow is hampered and not cooling effectivly.
3) Make sure the block is evenly tightened down on all 4 corners and it isn't sitting on the high spot of the socket. This should easily be viewable without any tools as the line you will see if it is sitting ontop of the hump will be at the bottom of the block (i.e. you would be able to slide something under the block), or the line will be on the side of the block if seated properly (i.e. you could not slide anything under the block, but you could slide something in between the socket hump and the block). Hard to explain with out pics but I think you get the idea.

Thats about all I got and it has already been covered.

Pakman117 · 12-22-2002, 02:40 AM

I recently installed my Maze3 on an XP1500+. Maybe I put it on too tight, but the distance from the block to the nuts was probably 1/4" to 3/8". The springs were pretty compressed. I was using a shim and got temps of about 30C - 35C. When I later took the block off, I could read the lettering from the CPU on the maze3 from the artic silver. Make sure you put that sucker on tight, and if you're using a shim, you might want to try without it. See pics of my system at www.osthebox.com.

MadDogMe · 12-22-2002, 03:00 AM

You have your block upside down, mount it other way up, if you mount it the way you have it there is a GOOD chance of having it on the lip of the socket...

The inlet barb of the Maze3 is the one nearest centre, always have that on the top for your mobo's socket mounting...

I agree with JD116, your rad is suffocating!, with the res there, (you don't need a res, a fillingtube/airtrap works fine) and also if you dont have a hole cut in the front panel to let it breath as well...

pippin88 · 12-22-2002, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
is suffocating!, with the res there, (you don't need a res, a fillingtube/airtrap works fine) and also if you dont have a hole cut in the front panel to let it breath as well...

Depends on pump (Unless I missed him stating a pump that can run inline?)

waterrat · 12-22-2002, 08:12 AM

Move the rad in front of the top fan,that would solved the problem that both JD and Bigben talk about ,you would be above the res. and give more slak to your tubing

spinky · 12-22-2002, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
You have your block upside down, mount it other way up, if you mount it the way you have it there is a GOOD chance of having it on the lip of the socket...

i seriously thought of that, but the waterblock is supposed to be offset.. so how can it be mount wrong? i read dangerden.com 's guide and it says it will only go in the right way.

fillingtube/airtrap..how do i do that..a link to a related thread would be good. (flames can go away)

Pakman117 · 12-22-2002, 12:31 PM

I dunno how you mounted your block like that, but look at dangerden's guide again and you'll see it needs to be rotated 90 degrees to the right. You should see the socket's raised tab if its on right.

pHaestus · 12-22-2002, 02:14 PM

Pakman: different motherboards have the socket laid out differently.

Is that an Asus A7V-133 by any chance?

Pakman117 · 12-22-2002, 04:00 PM

Ah, thats a good point. Spinky, what kind of motherboard do you have? Mine is a KG7-Raid.

MadDogMe · 12-23-2002, 01:58 AM

I shit you not spinky, your blocks upside down :| ...

You can't see it well from pacmans pic, but the outlet (that is nearest the blocks edge) should be on the right of the 'socket tab' that shows, the inlet (more central) should be on the left (or top as yours is set on the mobo)...

pHaestus · 12-23-2002, 02:07 AM

The larger concern is that the motherboard is either an Asus A7V or A7V-133 by my guess (check the riser card for power components).

Asus uses a surface mount thermistor that measrues the air temp under the socket and extrapolates what the CPU temp must be to get that temp. Since this is a pretty indirect method, it usually produces pretty far off results. Try pointing an 80mm fan at the wb; temps usually drop around 5C...

spinky · 12-23-2002, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
The larger concern is that the motherboard is either an Asus A7V or A7V-133 by my guess (check the riser card for power components).

Asus uses a surface mount thermistor that measrues the air temp under the socket and extrapolates what the CPU temp must be to get that temp. Since this is a pretty indirect method, it usually produces pretty far off results. Try pointing an 80mm fan at the wb; temps usually drop around 5C...

the board is an A7V133..

questions

1) is my block on WRONG?
2) okay. its not internal diode reading, its understood and agreed that the reading is off.. but since its under the same room tempreture, same configuration.. same external diode...same casing - SK6 with 80mm sunon gives 56C max load.. this does 52C load.. so we can agree that using the block gives better tempreture..but its probably a 4-8C diffrence? (is it right to think this way?)

thanks for the replies so far, i'm a slow learner, but give me sometime i'll catchup.

airtrap/filling tube? i still need help on that

PS: thanks for the picture Pakman! pictures are worth a thousand words

SCompRacer · 12-23-2002, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spinky

1) is my block on WRONG?

The other way to tell how to position your block is look at your Maze3. You will see that two mounting holes are closer to the edge of the block on one side than the other side. It's not by much either. The side with the holes closest to the edge of the block goes toward the step on the CPU socket. Even then I have had the edge of the block contact the step on some boards. Tolerance stack ups maybe, but you gotta check and deal with it.

12-21-2002, 04:50 AM	#1
spinky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Malaysia Posts: 48	52C full load maze3? what the!@#? okay i need help. i reinstalled my block twice..didnt help i dont know the water tempreture, but its not hot to touch. the waterblock is not hot to touch. so im assuming the block isn't seated right. now the maze3 block uses the 4 mounting holes, plus nuts to lock it in to place. i did it with the board in the tower and the case straight..so basically i mount it sideways in...is that the issue? im suppose to put it laying on its back and install the block? and one more thing, am i supposed to tighten the nuts to the max? and make the springs all tight? cause if you tighten the nuts to the max, the plastic bolt will go sideways or slant (not straight when tightened too much) am i doing this wrong? 52C.. pfft.. thats sorta gay. tempreture outside is 33C, inside my room its lot less than that (aircond)..and it does 52C ..my sk6 before that did 56C on load.. EDIT: first time install, i used a copper shim. 2nd time i reinstall..removed the shim..no diffrence.

12-21-2002, 05:54 AM	#2
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Did you check if the block is sitting on the raised edge of the socket so it doesn't cover the core all the way? I don't have the experience with the maze blocks, but my homemade is mounted with shim, and actually I got better temps than without the shim. It could be that the bolts are'nt tight enough so the thermal joint is poor...:shrug: Good luck! __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

12-21-2002, 10:06 AM	#6
crane Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 82	Not trying to sound patronizing,but are you sure you have water flow going into the WB's inlet (center) barb? Another good way to make sure you don't have the WB sitting up on the raised edge of the socket is to use a mechanics inspection mirror and a bright light.... angle it just right and you can see all of the way to the core of the chip. I've removed and replaced WB's dozens of times in the upright position...it has no bearing on the installation. What does come in to play is hose weight and flexibility on the block. Any side to side forces or hose tension is going to screw up your thermal interface with the core. When tightening the mounting nuts...start out with all 4 just barely threaded on....then alternate tightening each one in a cross ways pattern. Count the turns and do each nut the same until you feel those springs start to give resistance,then give em another full turn and stop. Gently wiggle the WB in a side to side motion... it should move only slightly with just moderate resistance being felt. Bear in mind I have never installed a maze 3 WB before and I am basing the above on my experiences....it may be different for you. I have a thermistor epoxied under my CPU so I don't have that anxious "first start up" feeling waiting for the bios screen to load so I can see temps of the chip. Trust me, I've cooked chips with a shoddy installation before..thats a sick feeling. __________________ dirt rules

12-21-2002, 01:23 PM	#10
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	it is possible when using pattex hobbyist glue __________________ yo soy un tiburón

12-21-2002, 03:19 PM	#11
crane Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 82	Don't know if you can find "Hellmans Mayonaise" where you are...but the plastic jars are great reservoirs. Wide mouth lid so you can toss the pump inside and the jar itself is tough enough to drill and cut threads with a 1/4 npt pipe tap. Buy a jar,make a big batch of tuna salad for everyone and then proceed to make a good reservoir. __________________ dirt rules

12-21-2002, 06:26 AM	#3
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Seems about right to me. Grab a slow spinning quiet case fan and sit it on the back of your video card and point it at the CPU socket area, and then tell us what your CPU temps are.

12-21-2002, 07:48 AM	#5
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Tighten it up, I used brass bolts instead of the bendy nylon ones, they're much better... What is the rest of your system?, rad, tube, ect... 4DegC below SK6 temps seems OKish, don't forget the SK6 was starting to encroach on H2o temps if a Delta was used, saying that, with a room temp of 21DegC I get a idle temp of 33DegC(it goes cooler but I was sloppy with the AS3[tempry' mount]), for each degree of rise in roomtemp the CPU temp will rise more(than a degree)...

12-21-2002, 10:53 AM	#7
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	For CPU diode temperatures those aren't unreasonable. A little more info on your setup would be useful: what radiator, what fan, and where it is placed in the case. If you are cooling the rad with warm air from the case (top blowhole or something), and that air is 35C, then that would more or less explain things.

12-21-2002, 11:51 AM	#8
spinky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Malaysia Posts: 48	okay.. to sum it up.. thats 3 sunons up front.. all at 7V each.. its rated 2.4W so u can roughly guess how powerful it is.. the stock casing fan grills was all removed..so its unrestricted and cool fresh air from outside the case is blowing at the rad. rad is black ice pro.. with a delta 120mm X 25mm on it..running at full 12V.. the pump is not THAT powerful..but it got about head till a little above the PSU.. 1200L/hr (probably crap rating) i believe the problem isn't the rad... thats for sure.. i've been working with PC a long time..but i just started with WC.. so..any tips whatsoever is appreciated. PS: anybody have any idea how to seal a tupperware/plastic ?

12-21-2002, 12:33 PM	#9
nicozeg Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 403	You did'nt said your cpu tipe, speed and vcore. Tupperware plastic is impossible to bond

12-21-2002, 09:31 PM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Don't give up yet, you're doing very well. Now look at your rad: did you consider ducting? Once you have a duct installed, I think you'll find better results. Also, the hose running from the block to the rad: it may be pulling on the block, and lifting/tilting it ever so slightly, which would explain that 56C temp. You may consider giving it some slack. You may have air trapped in the block, but I think that's unlikely, unless your flow is poor. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-21-2002, 11:20 PM	#13
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	My thoughts. 1) The airflow through the rad is severly blocked and looks to also be recycling the already warmed air. 2) The pump is sitting in the resivore. Depending on the heat that pump puts off it could be boosting the water temps significantly, especially being the rad air flow is hampered and not cooling effectivly. 3) Make sure the block is evenly tightened down on all 4 corners and it isn't sitting on the high spot of the socket. This should easily be viewable without any tools as the line you will see if it is sitting ontop of the hump will be at the bottom of the block (i.e. you would be able to slide something under the block), or the line will be on the side of the block if seated properly (i.e. you could not slide anything under the block, but you could slide something in between the socket hump and the block). Hard to explain with out pics but I think you get the idea. Thats about all I got and it has already been covered.

12-22-2002, 02:40 AM	#14
Pakman117 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: PA Posts: 5	I recently installed my Maze3 on an XP1500+. Maybe I put it on too tight, but the distance from the block to the nuts was probably 1/4" to 3/8". The springs were pretty compressed. I was using a shim and got temps of about 30C - 35C. When I later took the block off, I could read the lettering from the CPU on the maze3 from the artic silver. Make sure you put that sucker on tight, and if you're using a shim, you might want to try without it. See pics of my system at www.osthebox.com. __________________ "The only good accelerator for a mac is one that causes it to go -9.8m/s^2"

12-22-2002, 03:00 AM	#15
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	You have your block upside down, mount it other way up, if you mount it the way you have it there is a GOOD chance of having it on the lip of the socket... The inlet barb of the Maze3 is the one nearest centre, always have that on the top for your mobo's socket mounting... I agree with JD116, your rad is suffocating!, with the res there, (you don't need a res, a fillingtube/airtrap works fine) and also if you dont have a hole cut in the front panel to let it breath as well...

12-22-2002, 08:12 AM	#17
waterrat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: miami Posts: 35	Move the rad in front of the top fan,that would solved the problem that both JD and Bigben talk about ,you would be above the res. and give more slak to your tubing __________________ 8rda3+,xp1600@1.8gig, OCZ EL 256meg x 2, TI4200, MAZE 3,RIO 1700, BIX size used heater core.

12-22-2002, 12:31 PM	#19
Pakman117 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: PA Posts: 5	I dunno how you mounted your block like that, but look at dangerden's guide again and you'll see it needs to be rotated 90 degrees to the right. You should see the socket's raised tab if its on right. __________________ "The only good accelerator for a mac is one that causes it to go -9.8m/s^2"

12-22-2002, 02:14 PM	#20
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Pakman: different motherboards have the socket laid out differently. Is that an Asus A7V-133 by any chance?

12-22-2002, 04:00 PM	#21
Pakman117 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: PA Posts: 5	Ah, thats a good point. Spinky, what kind of motherboard do you have? Mine is a KG7-Raid. __________________ "The only good accelerator for a mac is one that causes it to go -9.8m/s^2"

12-23-2002, 01:58 AM	#22
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I shit you not spinky, your blocks upside down :\| ... You can't see it well from pacmans pic, but the outlet (that is nearest the blocks edge) should be on the right of the 'socket tab' that shows, the inlet (more central) should be on the left (or top as yours is set on the mobo)...

12-23-2002, 02:07 AM	#23
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The larger concern is that the motherboard is either an Asus A7V or A7V-133 by my guess (check the riser card for power components). Asus uses a surface mount thermistor that measrues the air temp under the socket and extrapolates what the CPU temp must be to get that temp. Since this is a pretty indirect method, it usually produces pretty far off results. Try pointing an 80mm fan at the wb; temps usually drop around 5C...

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