Swage Connectors

bob_folkerts · 08-29-2001, 12:41 AM

Hello all,

I've been looking into water cooling a PC and I was wondering if anyone has used swage connectors. They use ferules & a retaining nut to securely connect to tubing. I build some water cooled instruments in a vacuum chamber which is one place that a leak is even more disasterous than on a motherboard. We quickly stopped using any barbed connections and used only swaged connections. You can find brass swaged fittings from McMaster Carr at a pretty reasonable price. They can be used with nylon (or metal) tubing.

Relative to a swage fitting, a barb has two major disadvantages. First, high pressure tends to push the tube of the barbed connector. A swage connection actually gets tighter at high pressures. The tubing will rupture before the connection fails ( I found this the hard way.) The second problem we found was that plastic tubes tend to flow over time, so connections started leaking after months or years. If you 'really clamp down' on the tube, it often gets worse! The plastic tubes will flow all the faster if you apply more pressure. I suspect that silicon tubes will hold up better than the Tygon tubes I used in the lab, but I would strongly recomend that you consider using swaged connections.

To find inexpensive fittings, see http://www.mcmaster.com/ goto the Compression Tube Fittings (page 5 for inexpensive brass fittings)

LiquidCool · 08-29-2001, 10:38 AM

Same thing I have been trying to tell people, mine are a little different though but still the same idea...

redleader · 08-31-2001, 06:27 PM

Thanks for the advice. I have not been happy with plastic and screw on fittings. I'll definately try these out.

redleader · 08-31-2001, 06:29 PM

you mean on of these?

http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/107/html/0107.html

How exactly does it fit onto the tubning? I'm having trouble vizualizing it.

bob_folkerts · 09-01-2001, 12:00 AM

The Swagelok company has some descriptions of connections. I think it makes more sense to look at their online manuals than to try and explain how the connector body, ferules and retaining nut work.

Their PFA Tube Fittings Catalog is www.swagelok.com/en/spec/pdf/MS-01-05.pdf This gives a detailed description of their fittings. There is an installation guide which gives an explanation of how to seal the connectors at www.swagelok.com/en/jhtml/UIGuides.jhtml%3FS=18&request=?_requestid=37190
The best picture is on page 6 (of a 1 MB pdf file).

The units from McMaster Carr work the same way.

These connectors are for hard, thin walled tubing. One disadvantage of this is that is pretty hard to get a sharp radius. SO, you may need to get some elbows to navigate the inside of your case. This would be one place that I am thinking about getting some of the plastic elbows ( I don't want a metal block near a motherboard)

I am getting some components together & I will try to get some pictures and get some good written notes.

DivideByZero · 09-01-2001, 08:32 AM

When I put my cooling system together that was won of the things that I looked at... I ended up using PVC tubing with inserts on the end and compression fittings all around... I took the fittings that came with my MCW462 off and replaced them with compression fittings. I am very happy with them, not a single leak in over six months, plus they can be taken apart and re-used with no problems at all.

Khar · 09-02-2001, 03:34 PM

So, can you use Silicon hose with these swage connectors (such as the Mcmaster Silicon hose sold by Dangerden)? I mean, if it needs to be hard walled hose...I'm looking at getting a 1/2" watercooling setup and I like the look of these fittings.

redleader · 09-02-2001, 10:23 PM

Another question. How hard is it to replace the barbs on my core? They look like they are screwed and then coated in some white stuff. What would I do to replace them?

bob_folkerts · 09-02-2001, 10:54 PM

The white is probably either teflon tape or teflon paste. Be sure clean out all of the old teflon and any other goup out of the threads. I may overdo the cleaning, but I used to work in high vacuum systems that can neaver be to clean. Clean seals don't leak.

The teflon paste is easier to use, but be careful not to add to much - I have never found adding more goop ( of any sort) to be helpful in stopping leaks.

I like teflon tape, just cut a strip long enough to go around twice. Be sure to go around the right way (CW with the threads pointing at your face - I think). If you get it wrong, the tape will unwind when you tighten it.

With either teflon, I would start by hand tightening. Then lightly tighten with a wrench. Overtighting doesn't help and may hurt if you cut the teflon to schreads. Really overtighting can damage (tapered) pipe threads.

xerka · 09-02-2001, 11:01 PM

Hey the connectors you are talking about cant you get them over at
Liquidcool.org
just wondering if thats what you are talking about.

bob_folkerts · 09-03-2001, 12:26 AM

No, they aren't the same but they are similar. The basic principle of operation apply to both designs. It looks like they offer similar advantages:
1) unobstructed tube (seal is outside of the tube)
2) allow higher pressure than barb & clamps
3) no damage to the hose from the clamp so no leaks over time.

The major differance is that the swage fittings use metal ferrules instead of the o-ring and collet in the push-in connectors. I don't know which is better, since I haven't used the push-in fittings. I'm guessing the push-ins are easier to use and the swaged fittings are better at higher pressure. (But I hope nobody is going to be running a system at over 10 atmospheres of pressure, so the push-in should be fine.) A metal swage connection might last longer than a o-ring, but Nitrile rings quite good. They look like pretty good connectors to me.

I'll bet either one will do fine. I would choose either one over a barbed connection.

LiquidCool · 09-03-2001, 12:31 AM

Thanks

The only problem with mine is when using silicone. Since silicone is so soft the stainless teeth can't get a good grip and it can slip out pretty easy. I have a big load of "helpers" on the way. It's just a thin stainless steel sleeve that fits inside the end of the tube that goes in the fitting. This supports the tube and lets the teeth get a good bite.

I had considered a swage type connector, but these are easier to use once it's in your case. No wrenches or tools needed...

08-29-2001, 12:41 AM	#1
bob_folkerts Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Marion, Iowa Posts: 8	Swage Connectors Hello all, I've been looking into water cooling a PC and I was wondering if anyone has used swage connectors. They use ferules & a retaining nut to securely connect to tubing. I build some water cooled instruments in a vacuum chamber which is one place that a leak is even more disasterous than on a motherboard. We quickly stopped using any barbed connections and used only swaged connections. You can find brass swaged fittings from McMaster Carr at a pretty reasonable price. They can be used with nylon (or metal) tubing. Relative to a swage fitting, a barb has two major disadvantages. First, high pressure tends to push the tube of the barbed connector. A swage connection actually gets tighter at high pressures. The tubing will rupture before the connection fails ( I found this the hard way.) The second problem we found was that plastic tubes tend to flow over time, so connections started leaking after months or years. If you 'really clamp down' on the tube, it often gets worse! The plastic tubes will flow all the faster if you apply more pressure. I suspect that silicon tubes will hold up better than the Tygon tubes I used in the lab, but I would strongly recomend that you consider using swaged connections. To find inexpensive fittings, see http://www.mcmaster.com/ goto the Compression Tube Fittings (page 5 for inexpensive brass fittings)

09-01-2001, 08:32 AM	#6
DivideByZero Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 6	When I put my cooling system together that was won of the things that I looked at... I ended up using PVC tubing with inserts on the end and compression fittings all around... I took the fittings that came with my MCW462 off and replaced them with compression fittings. I am very happy with them, not a single leak in over six months, plus they can be taken apart and re-used with no problems at all. __________________ WARNING: Module REALITY.SYS caused a General Protection Fault in USER.EXE. Reboot Universe? (Y/N)

09-02-2001, 11:01 PM	#10
xerka Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 107	Hey the connectors you are talking about cant you get them over at Liquidcool.org just wondering if thats what you are talking about. __________________ Folders: I've given up folding

08-29-2001, 10:38 AM	#2
LiquidCool Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 231	Same thing I have been trying to tell people, mine are a little different though but still the same idea...

08-31-2001, 06:27 PM	#3
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Thanks for the advice. I have not been happy with plastic and screw on fittings. I'll definately try these out.

08-31-2001, 06:29 PM	#4
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	you mean on of these? http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/107/html/0107.html How exactly does it fit onto the tubning? I'm having trouble vizualizing it.

09-01-2001, 12:00 AM	#5
bob_folkerts Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Marion, Iowa Posts: 8	The Swagelok company has some descriptions of connections. I think it makes more sense to look at their online manuals than to try and explain how the connector body, ferules and retaining nut work. Their PFA Tube Fittings Catalog is www.swagelok.com/en/spec/pdf/MS-01-05.pdf This gives a detailed description of their fittings. There is an installation guide which gives an explanation of how to seal the connectors at www.swagelok.com/en/jhtml/UIGuides.jhtml%3FS=18&request=?_requestid=37190 The best picture is on page 6 (of a 1 MB pdf file). The units from McMaster Carr work the same way. These connectors are for hard, thin walled tubing. One disadvantage of this is that is pretty hard to get a sharp radius. SO, you may need to get some elbows to navigate the inside of your case. This would be one place that I am thinking about getting some of the plastic elbows ( I don't want a metal block near a motherboard) I am getting some components together & I will try to get some pictures and get some good written notes.

09-02-2001, 03:34 PM	#7
Khar Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: London Posts: 2	So, can you use Silicon hose with these swage connectors (such as the Mcmaster Silicon hose sold by Dangerden)? I mean, if it needs to be hard walled hose...I'm looking at getting a 1/2" watercooling setup and I like the look of these fittings.

09-02-2001, 10:23 PM	#8
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Another question. How hard is it to replace the barbs on my core? They look like they are screwed and then coated in some white stuff. What would I do to replace them?

09-02-2001, 10:54 PM	#9
bob_folkerts Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Marion, Iowa Posts: 8	The white is probably either teflon tape or teflon paste. Be sure clean out all of the old teflon and any other goup out of the threads. I may overdo the cleaning, but I used to work in high vacuum systems that can neaver be to clean. Clean seals don't leak. The teflon paste is easier to use, but be careful not to add to much - I have never found adding more goop ( of any sort) to be helpful in stopping leaks. I like teflon tape, just cut a strip long enough to go around twice. Be sure to go around the right way (CW with the threads pointing at your face - I think). If you get it wrong, the tape will unwind when you tighten it. With either teflon, I would start by hand tightening. Then lightly tighten with a wrench. Overtighting doesn't help and may hurt if you cut the teflon to schreads. Really overtighting can damage (tapered) pipe threads.

09-03-2001, 12:26 AM	#11
bob_folkerts Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Marion, Iowa Posts: 8	No, they aren't the same but they are similar. The basic principle of operation apply to both designs. It looks like they offer similar advantages: 1) unobstructed tube (seal is outside of the tube) 2) allow higher pressure than barb & clamps 3) no damage to the hose from the clamp so no leaks over time. The major differance is that the swage fittings use metal ferrules instead of the o-ring and collet in the push-in connectors. I don't know which is better, since I haven't used the push-in fittings. I'm guessing the push-ins are easier to use and the swaged fittings are better at higher pressure. (But I hope nobody is going to be running a system at over 10 atmospheres of pressure, so the push-in should be fine.) A metal swage connection might last longer than a o-ring, but Nitrile rings quite good. They look like pretty good connectors to me. I'll bet either one will do fine. I would choose either one over a barbed connection.

09-03-2001, 12:31 AM	#12
LiquidCool Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 231	Thanks The only problem with mine is when using silicone. Since silicone is so soft the stainless teeth can't get a good grip and it can slip out pretty easy. I have a big load of "helpers" on the way. It's just a thin stainless steel sleeve that fits inside the end of the tube that goes in the fitting. This supports the tube and lets the teeth get a good bite. I had considered a swage type connector, but these are easier to use once it's in your case. No wrenches or tools needed...

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