SCSI - What to buy?

cristoff · 08-03-2003, 08:02 PM

I just got a Seagate Cheetah 18.2gig 10k drive, 80 pin....

I know there are alot more people here then anywhere else that know about SCSI components...

So I was wondering what is 80pin? Also, what would I need to buy to have a bootable card? I know it would have to have a bios on its own... but what is the rating or whatever, meaning Ultra 160 or 320 or ultra 2, wide LVD/SE?

Also... Its a 3 1/4 inch drive, like a normal size drive...

Thanks for the help guys...

cybrsamurai · 08-03-2003, 08:21 PM

unless all of the SCSI knowledge in my brain has been corrupted by my recent auto accident you are looking for Ultra 160. Adaptec makes the best cards, although they are also very expensive. I have had some good luck with Initio cards if you want to save a buck. Just so you know OC and SCSI doesn't work super well together if you plan to overclock or are overclocking defenitly go with Adaptec.

Hellion_Prime · 08-03-2003, 09:45 PM

80 pin drives are used for hotswap bays. They provide both power and signal. You'll need to get an 80pin -> 68pin adapter to use it with most cards.

ItsSoLARGE · 08-03-2003, 11:35 PM

yeah and get a LSI card... adaptec is good but overpriced.. the egg has a nice lsi one for like 50

iroc409 · 08-04-2003, 12:10 AM

aahhh, crap. there's another fairly decent scsi company that's a little less known, but they work good... dammit, i can't remember the name.

oh well. american megatrends makes some good scsi stuff too, but they're more costly than adaptec. you can usually get good deals on adaptec stuff on ebay. ultra160 is expensive equipment tho.

cristoff · 08-04-2003, 09:25 AM

well whats ultra 320? and I think I know what lvd means... low voltage disc...which is most likely what it is... since its a 3 1/2 drive... hmm....

So either:

Adaptec
LSI
Initio

Hmm... anymore... I need bootable... so it needs a bios... ..

Hellion_Prime · 08-04-2003, 09:39 AM

U320 is the speed of the drive. Its quite a bit faster than U160... but for one drive, U160 would probably be fine. Depending on what prices you find for either type, I'd say to go with a U320 card, just on general principles. I have an LSI based Tekram U160 card in my winbox right now. and I like it alot. They make good stuff.

Just about every U160 or U320 card I can recall seeing has been bootable., as far as I can remember. Go over to the LSI website and take a look at their U320 stuff. Mmmmmmm a MegaRAID 320-4x. 4 channels of U320 with PCI-X connectivity and 128MB of cache..... Yummy. Of course, you'd need to sell an organ or 4 to afford one...

Tempus · 08-04-2003, 09:54 AM

LVD is low voltage differential. It describes the SIGNAL that travels along the cable. The LVD style gives you better signal integrity -> lng cable distances and higher speed.

The 80pin SCA connector will typically need an 80pinSCA to 68pin UWScsi to connect to a standard card. There are SCA cards out there but they are extra bucks.

The only big difference between U320 and U160 (beyond the obvious badnwidth difference) is that most/many U320 cards are 64bit PCI cards -- so you need a good server board for those.

Also note that there is a BIG difference between the standard 68pin and the 68pin LVD. You can't mix and match. So if your drive is LVD then you a> need to make sure your card has a LVD channel on it, and b> need to make sure you hook up to that channel.

The size of the drive (3.5 or 5.25) has no bearing on the interface, speed, etc.

cristoff · 08-04-2003, 03:22 PM

so a U160 capable card and its most likely scsi if it has u160... and also i need a card adapter from 80 pin to 68 pin...
What should I look for in an adapter for it?

Hellion_Prime · 08-05-2003, 01:58 PM

Google is your friend.

Joe · 08-05-2003, 02:09 PM

Low Voltage Disk

hehehe

and this comment :

Quote:

Also note that there is a BIG difference between the standard 68pin and the 68pin LVD. You can't mix and match. So if your drive is LVD then you a> need to make sure your card has a LVD channel on it, and b> need to make sure you hook up to that channel.

is wrong.

You CAN mix and match LVD and SE devices. (SE = Single ended, and is what that "standard 68 pin" is refering to). WHen you put a SE device on a LVD channel everything falls back to the speed of the SE device ( normally 20 or 40 depending on the technlogy).

Differential (or as some geeks call it HVD now) was a much higher voltage adn THAT you cant mix and match. if you put a SE device on a Differential channel you could burn out the SCSI logic chip on the SE device rather fast, if not instantly.

SCA2 is what you would be looking for SCA is an older standard. I would recomend avoiding SCA/2 drives since they add another level of complication for problems. If you can get a normal 68 pin version you would be better off in the long run. ( unless you have back plane you plan on mounting the drive to.)

Last night I just took a 12 disk 9.1GB UW SCSI RAID array out of commission... replaced it with a handful of 100 and 120GB IDE drives... the funny thing is that the IDE is faster than the UW SCSI was for transfer even on a massive array like that. THe array was split on 2 channels on a Mylex DAC960 series RAID card with 64mb cache. I still run all U160 SCSI in my main workstation though, never ditching SCSI from that box.

Also SCSI ONLY reaches its potential with a handful of drives or more. a Single SCSI drive on a U320 will really perform marginal if at all faster than a high end IDE drive on a SATA setup. But in a cluster of SCSI drives, in a array config, you can get some seriously high output and fill the U320 up in no time. keep that in mind when you are buying or building a SCSI setup... its power in numbers that makes the difference.

(this is coming from a person who owned SCSI drives in every workstation I ever owned since I was 10 years old. My first IDE drive was a 20GB WD I bougth about 3 years ago. Took that long for IDE to impress me

)

Dark Ember · 08-07-2003, 10:59 AM

Well, in case your curious about my experiences to date...

I've been using a 1 channel LSI U160 card with a 15k.3 for a while now, and its been working great. My card wouldn't work with your drive, because its 68 pins though. Just wanted to say that I am quite pleased with the performance of th LSI card to date. The bios on it is kind of confusing though...

LSI is also a big partner of seagate and maxtor, doing all the new scsi and Serial Attached SCSI research on new products, so I would tend to trust their products.

As far as products to buy... You could either get a card with an 80 pin scsi port on it, or you could get a 80 to 68 pin adapter for the drive. That would probably be your best bet, if you want to put the drive in your computer's case, rather than an external case, as most cards don't have an 80 pin port on them.

Joe · 08-07-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dark Ember
You could either get a card with an 80 pin scsi port on it, or you could get a 80 to 68 pin adapter for the drive.

SCA isnt a cable or card connection interface, its ONLY an interface from a drive to a backplane. You cant buy a controler with an 80 pin SCA interface on it, since SCA isnt meant for that end of the chain.

08-03-2003, 08:02 PM	#1
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	SCSI - What to buy? I just got a Seagate Cheetah 18.2gig 10k drive, 80 pin.... I know there are alot more people here then anywhere else that know about SCSI components... So I was wondering what is 80pin? Also, what would I need to buy to have a bootable card? I know it would have to have a bios on its own... but what is the rating or whatever, meaning Ultra 160 or 320 or ultra 2, wide LVD/SE? Also... Its a 3 1/4 inch drive, like a normal size drive... Thanks for the help guys... __________________ fr33t3chi3

08-03-2003, 08:21 PM	#2
cybrsamurai Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ashland Posts: 296	unless all of the SCSI knowledge in my brain has been corrupted by my recent auto accident you are looking for Ultra 160. Adaptec makes the best cards, although they are also very expensive. I have had some good luck with Initio cards if you want to save a buck. Just so you know OC and SCSI doesn't work super well together if you plan to overclock or are overclocking defenitly go with Adaptec. __________________ Air cooled my ass.

08-03-2003, 09:45 PM	#3
Hellion_Prime Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Arlington, MA, US Posts: 90	80 pin drives are used for hotswap bays. They provide both power and signal. You'll need to get an 80pin -> 68pin adapter to use it with most cards. __________________ That which does not kill me had BETTER do enough damage to keep me from firing back!

08-03-2003, 11:35 PM	#4
ItsSoLARGE Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: So Cal Posts: 125	yeah and get a LSI card... adaptec is good but overpriced.. the egg has a nice lsi one for like 50 __________________ Plumber's Goop: The Watercooler's Duct Tape

08-04-2003, 12:10 AM	#5
iroc409 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 596	aahhh, crap. there's another fairly decent scsi company that's a little less known, but they work good... dammit, i can't remember the name. oh well. american megatrends makes some good scsi stuff too, but they're more costly than adaptec. you can usually get good deals on adaptec stuff on ebay. ultra160 is expensive equipment tho. __________________ :shrug:

08-04-2003, 09:25 AM	#6
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	well whats ultra 320? and I think I know what lvd means... low voltage disc...which is most likely what it is... since its a 3 1/2 drive... hmm.... So either: Adaptec LSI Initio Hmm... anymore... I need bootable... so it needs a bios... .. __________________ fr33t3chi3

08-04-2003, 09:39 AM	#7
Hellion_Prime Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Arlington, MA, US Posts: 90	U320 is the speed of the drive. Its quite a bit faster than U160... but for one drive, U160 would probably be fine. Depending on what prices you find for either type, I'd say to go with a U320 card, just on general principles. I have an LSI based Tekram U160 card in my winbox right now. and I like it alot. They make good stuff. Just about every U160 or U320 card I can recall seeing has been bootable., as far as I can remember. Go over to the LSI website and take a look at their U320 stuff. Mmmmmmm a MegaRAID 320-4x. 4 channels of U320 with PCI-X connectivity and 128MB of cache..... Yummy. Of course, you'd need to sell an organ or 4 to afford one... __________________ That which does not kill me had BETTER do enough damage to keep me from firing back! Last edited by Hellion_Prime; 08-04-2003 at 09:45 AM.

08-04-2003, 09:54 AM	#8
Tempus Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 456	LVD is low voltage differential. It describes the SIGNAL that travels along the cable. The LVD style gives you better signal integrity -> lng cable distances and higher speed. The 80pin SCA connector will typically need an 80pinSCA to 68pin UWScsi to connect to a standard card. There are SCA cards out there but they are extra bucks. The only big difference between U320 and U160 (beyond the obvious badnwidth difference) is that most/many U320 cards are 64bit PCI cards -- so you need a good server board for those. Also note that there is a BIG difference between the standard 68pin and the 68pin LVD. You can't mix and match. So if your drive is LVD then you a> need to make sure your card has a LVD channel on it, and b> need to make sure you hook up to that channel. The size of the drive (3.5 or 5.25) has no bearing on the interface, speed, etc. __________________ Thou art God.

08-04-2003, 03:22 PM	#9
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	so a U160 capable card and its most likely scsi if it has u160... and also i need a card adapter from 80 pin to 68 pin... What should I look for in an adapter for it? __________________ fr33t3chi3

08-05-2003, 01:58 PM	#10
Hellion_Prime Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Arlington, MA, US Posts: 90	Google is your friend. __________________ That which does not kill me had BETTER do enough damage to keep me from firing back!

08-07-2003, 10:59 AM	#12
Dark Ember Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6	Well, in case your curious about my experiences to date... I've been using a 1 channel LSI U160 card with a 15k.3 for a while now, and its been working great. My card wouldn't work with your drive, because its 68 pins though. Just wanted to say that I am quite pleased with the performance of th LSI card to date. The bios on it is kind of confusing though... LSI is also a big partner of seagate and maxtor, doing all the new scsi and Serial Attached SCSI research on new products, so I would tend to trust their products. As far as products to buy... You could either get a card with an 80 pin scsi port on it, or you could get a 80 to 68 pin adapter for the drive. That would probably be your best bet, if you want to put the drive in your computer's case, rather than an external case, as most cards don't have an 80 pin port on them.

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