Amount of water

dr_zukov · 08-17-2003, 06:43 AM

What amount of water do you use in your rig? Is a big res better than a small one? Does it even matter? Is it dependent on the type of a rig?

Puzzdre · 08-17-2003, 08:50 AM

Welcome to the forums dr_Z!

It shouldnt really matter how much water, and bigger or smaller res. Use one that will suffice the need of easy filling the system, and be a good airtrap. Think that any size that will suit your case will do. Bigger res will not bring any benefit, just more time till the water gets to the stable working temp, but nothing else.

My system contains about 6 dcl of water, no res.

Cheers!

CoolROD · 08-17-2003, 03:37 PM

Welcome Dr_Z,

It is common to use a res. that doubles as an airtrap. To be an effective airtrap the vater velocity has to slow to allow the air to rise and settle out of suspension. You can do that by:

1) restricting flow (which you do not want) -or-
2) by increasing the area of the water stream in your airtrap...

Boli · 08-17-2003, 05:26 PM

OR... option 3

Stagger your inlet/outlet. i.e. a perfect res airtrap in a system is one which does not offer a direct rout from one side to the other. this can be done on a small/large scale.

CoolROD · 08-17-2003, 11:11 PM

Right -you are basically increasing the amount of time that the air has to settle out of the water. You can increase the length of travel with good design by using a baffle, good inlet / outlet placement, or increased res size (which usually slows water velocity), etc.

dr_zukov · 08-18-2003, 12:35 AM

Thanks for the replies.

About the water velocity. How big is the difference in velocity between a closed system (which I suppose would have the highest) and a system with a really big res (where water would basically stop before going into the pump), or is there a difference at all?

CoolROD · 08-18-2003, 07:00 AM

For a given flow rate: The local velocity is inversely proportional to the cross sectional area!

There are gradients of flow (from zero to maximum), but you can ignore them for this application. There will also be high velocity streams in front of the ports, but you can ignore them too -if the ports are reasonably far apart.

dr_zukov · 08-18-2003, 09:45 AM

Thanks for the info. It makes sense, but it's been a long time since I dabbled in physics

.

CoolROD · 08-18-2003, 10:28 AM

The majority of the systems that I have seen (including mine) that have reservoirs are still "closed" systems b/c the reservoirs are not vented to atmosphere!

I know that any pressure head at the inlet of a pump increases the pump's efficiency and any suction work decreases the pump's (or fan's).

I cannot give a percentage increase in flow due to a closed system. I know there is one b/c I have measured it! I am also interested in this and it is discussed somewhere in this forum.

Mabye one of the Pros here will enlighten us...

arcsylver · 08-19-2003, 09:31 PM

My current setup uses a 5 gallon food service jug such as what french fry oil comes in cleaned thouroughly as a res (external of course)

The only advantage I have found with such a huge res is that I really dont need a radiator with such a large container external to the system because it allows the water to cool somewhat naturally with the outlet for the res drawing from the bottom of the jug.

I can completely shut off the fan on my DD BI Evo without any long term temp change registering on my temp sensors using MBM5 .

CPU reads approx 30C all the time with a case temp approx 5 over that.

Room temp is usually in the mid 70's F

CPU is 1 Ghz Celeron on a crap MSI mobo. Otherwise I would OC this sucker to see what it can really do.

CoolROD · 08-19-2003, 09:40 PM

That is interesting...
You are not using evaporation for cooling?
-just heat transfer through the wall of the jug?
Is your res a plastic container?

arcsylver · 08-19-2003, 09:48 PM

It is a fairly thin walled 5 gallon food service type jug commonly used for tings like vegetable oil in large quantities. I have a DD BI Evo radiator as well but I have run my system for well over eight hours while gaming without any fans running at all with only a 1 or 2 degree increase in operating temps.

The jug sits on the floor right beside my full tower under my desk and there is no aorflow under there except what is generated by the outlets of my case fans.

I Have thought of making a similar designed/capacity res out of something like 1/4" copper plae with fins to see how it might perform but have not had the $$$ to buy the raw materials yet to test it out.

The biggest pain about it is that it definitely is not portable in any way due to 5gallons of water in the system.

But it is really nice to not have to worry about a thermal overload.

I have had this system running (the WC not the comp) 24/7 since january 1st of this year without any problems.

Oh and before anyone asks I am using a Hydor L20 pump for this rig and a small innovatek socket 370 WB

CoolROD · 08-19-2003, 09:52 PM

Sounds great.

What is your chemical coctail? -or just water?

Is your water still clear?

Any signs of nasty growth (algae, bacteria) in your system?

arcsylver · 08-19-2003, 10:03 PM

I use a mix of DIstilled water and Isoprophyl alchohol.

I have a mix of CHeap clear vinyl/plastic tubing and Copper tubing in my system and it is am all copper rig. No AL in it.

No Algae growth as of yet or at least none that is readily visible.

I am unsure of the exact mix on the alcohol though. I know it is less than half a standard size bottle to the 5 gallons though.

Wish I coul dbe more precise. This was my first WC rig and I have not been to accurate in my record keeping.

I have a new setup in the works that I hope to keep better resords fir the sak of experimentation coming up soon.

See the post about perfect WC cases to get the link to the cabinet I will be using. This new setup wqill be a self contained but still non portable rig due to the huge size of the cabinet.

I plan to have a custom Rad/Res built for it to mount on the back wall of it. I plan to use something in the nieghboorhood of 3" PVC (hopefully clear) on each side of a 2 loop radiator (2 separate cooling loops) fed directly by the outlets of the rad on each side

CoolROD · 08-19-2003, 10:14 PM

Good luck with both -and, oh yeah, I almost forgot:

Welcome to the Forum!

I like big cases b/c I have big hands and big tools. I consider a big case that is self contained to be portable, though not as readily portable as some of the smaller ones...

I asked about your coctail b/c I am firing up a system with a UV sterilizer for the water. I am also looking into other additives for the water.

edit: I guess Dr_Z got what (or more than) he was looking for.

arcsylver · 08-19-2003, 10:22 PM

heh yeah I guess so.

As for the portability, I plan to add So good strong casters to this puppy to make it better.

Oh and sorry for highjacking your thread dude, Didn't mean to I swear!!!!

CoolROD · 08-19-2003, 10:25 PM

I guess all this activity is keeping it on top, though...

Casters -just strap on a hand truck...

08-17-2003, 06:43 AM	#1
dr_zukov Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 10	Amount of water What amount of water do you use in your rig? Is a big res better than a small one? Does it even matter? Is it dependent on the type of a rig?

08-17-2003, 08:50 AM	#2
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Welcome to the forums dr_Z! It shouldnt really matter how much water, and bigger or smaller res. Use one that will suffice the need of easy filling the system, and be a good airtrap. Think that any size that will suit your case will do. Bigger res will not bring any benefit, just more time till the water gets to the stable working temp, but nothing else. My system contains about 6 dcl of water, no res. Cheers! __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

08-17-2003, 03:37 PM	#3
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Welcome Dr_Z, It is common to use a res. that doubles as an airtrap. To be an effective airtrap the vater velocity has to slow to allow the air to rise and settle out of suspension. You can do that by: 1) restricting flow (which you do not want) -or- 2) by increasing the area of the water stream in your airtrap... __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-17-2003, 05:26 PM	#4
Boli Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackburn / Dundee Posts: 451	OR... option 3 Stagger your inlet/outlet. i.e. a perfect res airtrap in a system is one which does not offer a direct rout from one side to the other. this can be done on a small/large scale. __________________ 1800+ @ 2247 (214x10.5) - STABLE, 512MB PC3700 TwinX Cosair RAM, NF7-S v2.0, GeForce3 Ti200 Parallel BIM, 120.1 Thermochill, Eheim 1048, Maze 3, Maze4 GPU, "Z" chipset, 1/2" tubing, PC-70: 5x120mm & 9x80mm fans. Internet Server & second machine (folding 24/7): 512MB DDR RAM, XP2000+

08-17-2003, 11:11 PM	#5
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Right -you are basically increasing the amount of time that the air has to settle out of the water. You can increase the length of travel with good design by using a baffle, good inlet / outlet placement, or increased res size (which usually slows water velocity), etc. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-18-2003, 12:35 AM	#6
dr_zukov Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 10	Thanks for the replies. About the water velocity. How big is the difference in velocity between a closed system (which I suppose would have the highest) and a system with a really big res (where water would basically stop before going into the pump), or is there a difference at all?

08-18-2003, 07:00 AM	#7
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	For a given flow rate: The local velocity is inversely proportional to the cross sectional area! There are gradients of flow (from zero to maximum), but you can ignore them for this application. There will also be high velocity streams in front of the ports, but you can ignore them too -if the ports are reasonably far apart. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-18-2003, 09:45 AM	#8
dr_zukov Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 10	Thanks for the info. It makes sense, but it's been a long time since I dabbled in physics .

08-18-2003, 10:28 AM	#9
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	The majority of the systems that I have seen (including mine) that have reservoirs are still "closed" systems b/c the reservoirs are not vented to atmosphere! I know that any pressure head at the inlet of a pump increases the pump's efficiency and any suction work decreases the pump's (or fan's). I cannot give a percentage increase in flow due to a closed system. I know there is one b/c I have measured it! I am also interested in this and it is discussed somewhere in this forum. Mabye one of the Pros here will enlighten us... __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-19-2003, 09:31 PM	#10
arcsylver Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: State of insanity Posts: 101	My current setup uses a 5 gallon food service jug such as what french fry oil comes in cleaned thouroughly as a res (external of course) The only advantage I have found with such a huge res is that I really dont need a radiator with such a large container external to the system because it allows the water to cool somewhat naturally with the outlet for the res drawing from the bottom of the jug. I can completely shut off the fan on my DD BI Evo without any long term temp change registering on my temp sensors using MBM5 . CPU reads approx 30C all the time with a case temp approx 5 over that. Room temp is usually in the mid 70's F CPU is 1 Ghz Celeron on a crap MSI mobo. Otherwise I would OC this sucker to see what it can really do. __________________ Been Building these things since the IBM XT and I aint about to stop now!!! Prescott 2.8Ghz @ 3.08Ghz ECS 865PE-A Mobo Corsair 768 MB PC3200 DDR HP CD-Writer 9300 Maxtor 30 GB ATA Danger Den RBX 1957 Chevy Brass Radiator Danner Mag 7 Rackmounted Dual Blower w/Thermostat All this in a 4' Server cabinet

08-19-2003, 09:40 PM	#11
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	That is interesting... You are not using evaporation for cooling? -just heat transfer through the wall of the jug? Is your res a plastic container? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-19-2003, 09:48 PM	#12
arcsylver Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: State of insanity Posts: 101	It is a fairly thin walled 5 gallon food service type jug commonly used for tings like vegetable oil in large quantities. I have a DD BI Evo radiator as well but I have run my system for well over eight hours while gaming without any fans running at all with only a 1 or 2 degree increase in operating temps. The jug sits on the floor right beside my full tower under my desk and there is no aorflow under there except what is generated by the outlets of my case fans. I Have thought of making a similar designed/capacity res out of something like 1/4" copper plae with fins to see how it might perform but have not had the $$$ to buy the raw materials yet to test it out. The biggest pain about it is that it definitely is not portable in any way due to 5gallons of water in the system. But it is really nice to not have to worry about a thermal overload. I have had this system running (the WC not the comp) 24/7 since january 1st of this year without any problems. Oh and before anyone asks I am using a Hydor L20 pump for this rig and a small innovatek socket 370 WB __________________ Been Building these things since the IBM XT and I aint about to stop now!!! Prescott 2.8Ghz @ 3.08Ghz ECS 865PE-A Mobo Corsair 768 MB PC3200 DDR HP CD-Writer 9300 Maxtor 30 GB ATA Danger Den RBX 1957 Chevy Brass Radiator Danner Mag 7 Rackmounted Dual Blower w/Thermostat All this in a 4' Server cabinet

08-19-2003, 09:52 PM	#13
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Sounds great. What is your chemical coctail? -or just water? Is your water still clear? Any signs of nasty growth (algae, bacteria) in your system? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-19-2003, 10:03 PM	#14
arcsylver Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: State of insanity Posts: 101	I use a mix of DIstilled water and Isoprophyl alchohol. I have a mix of CHeap clear vinyl/plastic tubing and Copper tubing in my system and it is am all copper rig. No AL in it. No Algae growth as of yet or at least none that is readily visible. I am unsure of the exact mix on the alcohol though. I know it is less than half a standard size bottle to the 5 gallons though. Wish I coul dbe more precise. This was my first WC rig and I have not been to accurate in my record keeping. I have a new setup in the works that I hope to keep better resords fir the sak of experimentation coming up soon. See the post about perfect WC cases to get the link to the cabinet I will be using. This new setup wqill be a self contained but still non portable rig due to the huge size of the cabinet. I plan to have a custom Rad/Res built for it to mount on the back wall of it. I plan to use something in the nieghboorhood of 3" PVC (hopefully clear) on each side of a 2 loop radiator (2 separate cooling loops) fed directly by the outlets of the rad on each side __________________ Been Building these things since the IBM XT and I aint about to stop now!!! Prescott 2.8Ghz @ 3.08Ghz ECS 865PE-A Mobo Corsair 768 MB PC3200 DDR HP CD-Writer 9300 Maxtor 30 GB ATA Danger Den RBX 1957 Chevy Brass Radiator Danner Mag 7 Rackmounted Dual Blower w/Thermostat All this in a 4' Server cabinet

08-19-2003, 10:14 PM	#15
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Good luck with both -and, oh yeah, I almost forgot: Welcome to the Forum! I like big cases b/c I have big hands and big tools. I consider a big case that is self contained to be portable, though not as readily portable as some of the smaller ones... I asked about your coctail b/c I am firing up a system with a UV sterilizer for the water. I am also looking into other additives for the water. edit: I guess Dr_Z got what (or more than) he was looking for. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-19-2003, 10:22 PM	#16
arcsylver Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: State of insanity Posts: 101	heh yeah I guess so. As for the portability, I plan to add So good strong casters to this puppy to make it better. Oh and sorry for highjacking your thread dude, Didn't mean to I swear!!!! __________________ Been Building these things since the IBM XT and I aint about to stop now!!! Prescott 2.8Ghz @ 3.08Ghz ECS 865PE-A Mobo Corsair 768 MB PC3200 DDR HP CD-Writer 9300 Maxtor 30 GB ATA Danger Den RBX 1957 Chevy Brass Radiator Danner Mag 7 Rackmounted Dual Blower w/Thermostat All this in a 4' Server cabinet

08-19-2003, 10:25 PM	#17
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I guess all this activity is keeping it on top, though... Casters -just strap on a hand truck... __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)