Anyone tried tap water for cooling?

Ewan · 09-07-2003, 04:33 AM

I mean simply hooking up your water block to a tap and having the other end go to the drain. It's got a lot going for it:

1) it's high pressure, so it will be effective for any extemely constrictive water block
2) it's usually colder than ambient. Where I'm at it's about 9 degrees C.
3) since it's single pass as opposed to a loop, you don't need a pump or radiator which saves on the investment. That $100(US) right there.
4) since you don't have a pump you don't need to worry about it failing.

The only thing wrong with it is that it uses lots of water: 1440 L/day for every l/min of flow you have. This is only a problem if you have expensive water.

Since your water is already about 10 degrees lower than ambient you wouldn't need high flows to get good cooling. Most water cooling folks have water temperatures in the 25-27 degree region. How would you like 10 degree water, without eleborate cooling equipment?

This is asuming that your tap water is that cold however.
Anyone tried this?

winewood · 09-07-2003, 09:08 AM

Its economics. A $20-30 waterbill daily is not benificial. And thats on the cheap side.

Buy a TEC for $35 and invest some time. That will cool below 10C and use far less cost per day.

bigben2k · 09-07-2003, 09:25 AM

It's not environmentally "proper", but it's been tried.

It's also not terribly convenient, when you consider the temperature of your shower (if you don't have a dedicated heater), or the water pressure throughout the rest of the house.

Winewood: they've got a different system out in Europe.

copyman · 09-07-2003, 11:17 AM

opps

MadHacker · 09-07-2003, 11:20 AM

We don't have a water bill around here either... un metered water...
gota love it....
have been thinking about it..
but live in a rental..
and somhow my pc is always far from the water connection...

Ruiner · 09-07-2003, 12:11 PM

I've seen rigs that use the toilet tank as a reservoir. A few flushes a day might be enough.

winewood · 09-07-2003, 12:16 PM

LOL! A toilet tank??

If you flush, does the pump suck air till it fills up? I would think mineral deposits would be a horrible thing in that setup. I have calcium in my water down here. Any metal corrodes quickly.

hydrogen18 · 09-07-2003, 12:23 PM

this sounds good except for the fact that you'd never be albe to take a shower(i know its been said, stressing the point). If you have your own well, temperatures are as cold as 5 C and there is no water bill

Ruiner · 09-07-2003, 01:04 PM

Getting off thread...
There was a fellow who buried a large (50 gallon I think) tank in his yard, down below 6 feet (he used a front end loader) and used that as a reservoir.
The tank stayed cool that far down.

superart · 09-07-2003, 02:51 PM

Also, tap water isnt PURE water, so if you have a leak, your PC sorts out and dies. Plus it will corrode your blocks and the bacteria will start making colonies in your tubes and blocks, and this will make flow go down and make heat transfer less efficient.

Boli · 09-07-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruiner
Getting off thread...
There was a fellow who buried a large (50 gallon I think) tank in his yard, down below 6 feet (he used a front end loader) and used that as a reservoir.
The tank stayed cool that far down.

Pretty sure that was Bladerunner.

superart · 09-07-2003, 04:45 PM

no, I remember seeing something like that too. The guy who did that also mentioned that he was living in a trailer for the time being since his house was being built. I don't remember seeing it in Bladerunner, however.

Zogthetroll · 09-07-2003, 08:18 PM

well, i think the site you're referring to with the underground tank is this one, http://www.dwpg.com/content.php?contid=3&artid=57
which i would love to do except i live in a condo (pretty sure the neighbors wouldn't think highly of me burying a tank in the front yard)

. anyway, i did find this from bladerunner's site, zerofanzone.com, so i'm not sure if it was orignally his work or not. hope this helps

superart · 09-07-2003, 08:32 PM

Quote:

anyway, i did find this from bladerunner's site, zerofanzone.com

OH!! You meant a website belonging to a person who goes by the name bladerunner. I thought you were referring to the movie bladerunner. ok I'm glad we cleared that one up.

golovko · 09-07-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by superart
I don't remember seeing it in Bladerunner, however.

They were refering to bladerunner the member that posts on this forum, not "Bladerunner" the movie.

superart · 09-07-2003, 11:27 PM

Yea, I got it. Please refer to the post above, where I acknowledge my brief moment of stupidity.

orev · 09-09-2003, 12:05 AM

On topic:
Not only would it cost a lot in water bills, it's a complete waste of resources - yes, it's wasting water - there would be no reason for it.

On a similar note:
I've often thought about using the cold water pipe, not as a water source, but as a heat exchanger. If your comp is close enough to your pipes, wrap some copper around the pipe and run your WC water through it. Probably gain a few temp points, and it's all passive.

A similar idea is to use the concrete floor or walls of your basement, but I'm sure that's probably been mentioned before. The toilet tank is a pretty neat idea too, as long as your WC loop is isolated, not actually pumping the water from the tank.

On the buried tank, it seems like it would be much more efficient to bury loops or mazes of copper tubing instead of 1 big tank.

MadHacker · 09-09-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by orev
On topic:
Not only would it cost a lot in water bills, it's a complete waste of resources - yes, it's wasting water - there would be no reason for it.

Fortunately for me, where I live in B.C. the water is not metered.
So if I turn on a hose and let it run 24/7 I don't get a large bill.

it rains here 10 months of the year (feels like it anyways)

so we have lots of water.
unfortuatly my wife would still freek if we had water hoses running around the apartment

MeltMan · 09-09-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadHacker
[unfortuatly my wife would still freek if we had water hoses running around the apartment [/b]

So?

MadHacker · 09-09-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MeltMan
So?

I take it you don't have a girlfriend or a wife you don't care to piss off?
me... I like to get laid...
hard to do that when the wife is ready to rip my nuts off...

Ewan · 09-15-2003, 10:11 AM

If you have metered water then the price of the water will reflect it's environmental value so you don't need to worry about wasting resources if you are billed. You only need to worry about the bill.
It would be interesting to compare the water bill for the cooling to the electricity cooling bill and water cooling investment. $100 for a rad and pump should buy you a lot of water.
If you already have a steady consumption of water for one reason or other, then the water will be free since you aren't degrading it by running it through your waterblock first.

You don't need a huge flow. 1 L/min is enough. Most showers use more than 10 L/min so your shower won't be effected.

Also with tap water your computer won't heat your room since the heat goes down the drain as opposed to heating the room. If you had a lot of computers in a room it might be a realy good idea to just cool with tap water so that the room doesn't get too hot.

superart · 09-15-2003, 08:12 PM

you mean like get a plumber to come in and install a custom pipe network for the 10,000 node beuwulf cluster I happen to have in my basement?

Sounds like a good idea, ill look into it after i finish installing that new render farm in the attic.

DualSingularity · 09-15-2003, 09:13 PM

What about hooking it into a radiant floor heating system? The comp plugs into the manifold and uses the already establisjed network of tubing, its sealed and usually has an anitbacterial agent in the water already. In the summer it would be great cuz a basement floor is always cold

and that big of a tubing system would absorb most if not all of the heat before it got back to the computer. In the winter...... ummm...... ummmm........ I got nuthin

superart · 09-15-2003, 09:38 PM

My parents used to own a dry cleaning business. Although most dry cleaners operate without A/C, since normal A/C would just croak after about a couple hours, they use a network of water pipes to pump cold water throughout the building. You can patch your computer to one of these, and really be in business

Got KarmA? · 09-15-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by superart
Also, tap water isnt PURE water, so if you have a leak, your PC sorts out and dies.

Cute, often-used argument towards using distilled water, but entirely pointless. There is a massive amount of contaminants in the tubes, pump, reservoir, you name it ... and although its true that pure H2O is not conductive, the moment it touches your system, it'll pick up enough to cause a problem.

Let alone when it falls on a motherboard or videocard which has picked up even the slightest amount of dirt or dust.

09-07-2003, 04:33 AM	#1
Ewan Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30	Anyone tried tap water for cooling? I mean simply hooking up your water block to a tap and having the other end go to the drain. It's got a lot going for it: 1) it's high pressure, so it will be effective for any extemely constrictive water block 2) it's usually colder than ambient. Where I'm at it's about 9 degrees C. 3) since it's single pass as opposed to a loop, you don't need a pump or radiator which saves on the investment. That $100(US) right there. 4) since you don't have a pump you don't need to worry about it failing. The only thing wrong with it is that it uses lots of water: 1440 L/day for every l/min of flow you have. This is only a problem if you have expensive water. Since your water is already about 10 degrees lower than ambient you wouldn't need high flows to get good cooling. Most water cooling folks have water temperatures in the 25-27 degree region. How would you like 10 degree water, without eleborate cooling equipment? This is asuming that your tap water is that cold however. Anyone tried this?

09-07-2003, 09:08 AM	#2
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Its economics. A $20-30 waterbill daily is not benificial. And thats on the cheap side. Buy a TEC for $35 and invest some time. That will cool below 10C and use far less cost per day. __________________ -winewood-

09-07-2003, 09:25 AM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It's not environmentally "proper", but it's been tried. It's also not terribly convenient, when you consider the temperature of your shower (if you don't have a dedicated heater), or the water pressure throughout the rest of the house. Winewood: they've got a different system out in Europe. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-07-2003, 11:20 AM	#5
MadHacker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Okotoks, A.B. Canada Posts: 726	We don't have a water bill around here either... un metered water... gota love it.... have been thinking about it.. but live in a rental.. and somhow my pc is always far from the water connection... __________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - (Einstein)

09-07-2003, 12:16 PM	#7
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	LOL! A toilet tank?? If you flush, does the pump suck air till it fills up? I would think mineral deposits would be a horrible thing in that setup. I have calcium in my water down here. Any metal corrodes quickly. __________________ -winewood-

09-07-2003, 11:17 AM	#4
copyman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 66	opps

09-07-2003, 12:11 PM	#6
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	I've seen rigs that use the toilet tank as a reservoir. A few flushes a day might be enough.

09-07-2003, 12:23 PM	#8
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	this sounds good except for the fact that you'd never be albe to take a shower(i know its been said, stressing the point). If you have your own well, temperatures are as cold as 5 C and there is no water bill

09-07-2003, 01:04 PM	#9
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	Getting off thread... There was a fellow who buried a large (50 gallon I think) tank in his yard, down below 6 feet (he used a front end loader) and used that as a reservoir. The tank stayed cool that far down.

09-07-2003, 02:51 PM	#10
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	Also, tap water isnt PURE water, so if you have a leak, your PC sorts out and dies. Plus it will corrode your blocks and the bacteria will start making colonies in your tubes and blocks, and this will make flow go down and make heat transfer less efficient. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

09-07-2003, 04:45 PM	#12
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	no, I remember seeing something like that too. The guy who did that also mentioned that he was living in a trailer for the time being since his house was being built. I don't remember seeing it in Bladerunner, however. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

09-07-2003, 08:18 PM	#13
Zogthetroll Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio, U.S.A. Posts: 177	well, i think the site you're referring to with the underground tank is this one, http://www.dwpg.com/content.php?contid=3&artid=57 which i would love to do except i live in a condo (pretty sure the neighbors wouldn't think highly of me burying a tank in the front yard). anyway, i did find this from bladerunner's site, zerofanzone.com, so i'm not sure if it was orignally his work or not. hope this helps

09-07-2003, 11:27 PM	#16
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	Yea, I got it. Please refer to the post above, where I acknowledge my brief moment of stupidity. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

09-09-2003, 12:05 AM	#17
orev Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 35	On topic: Not only would it cost a lot in water bills, it's a complete waste of resources - yes, it's wasting water - there would be no reason for it. On a similar note: I've often thought about using the cold water pipe, not as a water source, but as a heat exchanger. If your comp is close enough to your pipes, wrap some copper around the pipe and run your WC water through it. Probably gain a few temp points, and it's all passive. A similar idea is to use the concrete floor or walls of your basement, but I'm sure that's probably been mentioned before. The toilet tank is a pretty neat idea too, as long as your WC loop is isolated, not actually pumping the water from the tank. On the buried tank, it seems like it would be much more efficient to bury loops or mazes of copper tubing instead of 1 big tank.

09-15-2003, 10:11 AM	#21
Ewan Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30	If you have metered water then the price of the water will reflect it's environmental value so you don't need to worry about wasting resources if you are billed. You only need to worry about the bill. It would be interesting to compare the water bill for the cooling to the electricity cooling bill and water cooling investment. $100 for a rad and pump should buy you a lot of water. If you already have a steady consumption of water for one reason or other, then the water will be free since you aren't degrading it by running it through your waterblock first. You don't need a huge flow. 1 L/min is enough. Most showers use more than 10 L/min so your shower won't be effected. Also with tap water your computer won't heat your room since the heat goes down the drain as opposed to heating the room. If you had a lot of computers in a room it might be a realy good idea to just cool with tap water so that the room doesn't get too hot.

09-15-2003, 08:12 PM	#22
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	you mean like get a plumber to come in and install a custom pipe network for the 10,000 node beuwulf cluster I happen to have in my basement? Sounds like a good idea, ill look into it after i finish installing that new render farm in the attic. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

09-15-2003, 09:13 PM	#23
DualSingularity Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 2	What about hooking it into a radiant floor heating system? The comp plugs into the manifold and uses the already establisjed network of tubing, its sealed and usually has an anitbacterial agent in the water already. In the summer it would be great cuz a basement floor is always cold and that big of a tubing system would absorb most if not all of the heat before it got back to the computer. In the winter...... ummm...... ummmm........ I got nuthin

09-15-2003, 09:38 PM	#24
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	My parents used to own a dry cleaning business. Although most dry cleaners operate without A/C, since normal A/C would just croak after about a couple hours, they use a network of water pipes to pump cold water throughout the building. You can patch your computer to one of these, and really be in business __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

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