My Radbox

cahillr · 09-08-2003, 01:59 PM

Radbox Creation

Before starting I’d like to thank two forums and all the talented people on them for the entertainment, inspiration and insight you’ve given me over the years and the help, albeit indirectly on this project.

www.procooling.com
www.overclockers.com.au

Also I’ve included all but one of the pics as links so as not to cause the 56k people a headache.

After playing around with water cooling for 2+ years I decided I wanted to do something a little different, the two main

criteria I aimed for are :-

1. Cool
2. Quiet
3. Not to large
4. Easily movable (for cleaning and working on, etc)

I used to take my main PC to LAN parties but now have a shuttle for that so it was decided it wasn’t necessary to make it portable and self contained in the PC as my original water cooling systems.
The thought of having everything external has always appealed but due to the LAN parties was previously not practical, now was the time to give it a try. I’ve seen far to many of these external systems just thrown together over a bench and called a complete cooling system, so I knew I wanted this to look the part as well as work very well.
I decided on a rad box with everything bar the blocks enclosed inside, next step was to think what components I actually wanted this system to be made from and build around those.

Little bit of system info is needed before I carry on so you can see what I’m designing for.
Case - Coolermaster 110
MB - MSI K7D Master (Dual MP)
CPU - 2x MP2400
The case had already been modded for the previous water cooling by having a large panel cut out of the top for the radiator to sit in, this will be left in place and a plate made up to house 2 slow/quiet 120mm fans to pull the hot air out.

The list came out as :-

Hardware
1. 2xCathar’s Cascade WB (what else

2. 2xThermochill 120.3 Rads (Best I’ve seen so far and BillA’s testing on these looked good)
3. Eheim 1260 pump (to be replaced with an Iwaki)
4. 4xSunon fans (best I found for CFM vs dB)
5. PWM fan controller
6. Micro ATX PSU
Other Criteria
7. Reservoir, always liked them as they make for easy filling and air removal
8. Quick disconnects of some kind
9. If it vibrates, insulate it
10. Easy to upgrade pump, reservoir as needed

Details to keep flow rate up
1. Rad barbs are 14mm bored out to 12mm internally
2. Y connectors are all 16mm
3. Quick release connectors are 16mm
4. The only 2 quick 90 deg bends are 15mm copper
With all the above the smallest internal diameter until it hits the blocks are 12mm.

I won’t go into specific build details as I have next to no DIY skills but went and bought the tools and did it, so it’s not rocket science. The only thing I would say use the right tools, ie, do NOT try and cut straight lines with a jigsaw use a circular saw or at a minimum clamp batons to the wood to act as guides. If there’s something not obvious from the pictures
please post and I’ll explain the details.
Similarly the principles behind what I have done with regard to the dual rads are well know and need no explanation, the only thing a little different from the norm is that I went for a parallel connection for the cpu’s rather than the normal serial.
Given enough flow rate in the system this seemed a much better approach baring in mind how restrictive the Cascade in relation to most blocks. After testing I’m getting very approximately 6lpm through each side of the Y connector flowing into the blocks, which should be sufficient for the moment.
I have planned to replace the pump with an Iwaki once a decent settling in period has gone through to make sure it all works as anticipated.

Temps (These are an average between the two cpu’s as they both report slightly different temps)

Before (with 2x Coolermaster Aero7+ near maximum speed)
Ambient 24
Idle 42
Load 48-50

After (with all fans at 8v which is virtually silent)
Ambient 24
Idle 33
Load 38-40

I’ve not tried it with all the fans on max as it’s meant to be quiet, once I have the Iwaki in place in a few weeks I’ll do the temps again with max fan voltage as well this time.

This is my first post on these forums and I hope I’ve learnt all my lessons well

anyway it’s open to the floor for comments and questions.

Pics for your enjoyment

The Eheim quickfits I used
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/quickfits.jpg

Rads/Fans/Controller and PSU in
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/radsin1.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/radsin2.jpg

Pump tray all ready to go, I mounted it all on a separate platform to keep vibration down and also to allow easy upgrade without destroying the main unit by drilling loads of holes in it.
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/ptray1.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/ptray2.jpg

Pump tray mounted inside the box on it’s vibration absorbing feet
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/inside1.jpg

All the internals done and ready for testing.
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/Finished1.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/Finished2.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/Finished3.jpg

Motherboard with blocks on being tested outside the case for any leaks……
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blocks1.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blocks2.jpg

Oooops found one, and it’s in the block

I did buy two spare tops from cathar, but decided for the moment to patch it with superglue and silicon sealant, when I do the pump and overhaul the system I’ll replace the top.
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blockleak.jpg

And almost to the end…a few shots of the box from outside, you may notice that from the side the radiator still looks white, I have dust filters in front of them, nice and easy to clean rather tha stripping the unit down and hovering it out

http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/side.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/front.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/finished4.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/finished5.jpg

Andfinally all in and working 8)
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/allin.jpg

dima y · 09-08-2003, 02:35 PM

very very nice looking!

may i suggest (insist on) something?

HOSECLAMPS on the water blocks. plz dude you dont want all that money and hard and beautiful work to go to waste do you?

Plz buy some hoseclamps

Cathar · 09-08-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cahillr
Oooops found one, and it’s in the block I did buy two spare tops from cathar, but decided for the moment to patch it with superglue and silicon sealant, when I do the pump and overhaul the system I’ll replace the top.
http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blockleak.jpg

That's it. I'm off to buy some new thread sealant.

I test these barb seals here, but this seems to be the second one now that has leaked even though testing out fine here.

Something's going on with the extended curing time is my guess.

Pritorian · 09-08-2003, 06:22 PM

Very very nice work!

Giving me insiration too something the same!

like the quick cinnect fitting, makes changing the blocks pretty easy.

xerka · 09-08-2003, 07:39 PM

DAMN! That is really nice. If I wouldn't of just bought a new bike I would probably set something up like that. My very first setup was external like that but it was a POS. Then I switched to it all internal, but that just got in the way. Right now I have nothing watercooled but I am getting a little sick of noise again.

One question though, why didn't you mount the fan controls on the outside of the box?

Caeberos · 09-08-2003, 08:54 PM

If i ever make another water cooling setup, it is gonna look somthing like that

. Cept maybe use several 12v rotrons and heater cores. maybe an iwaki pump.... yeh

orev · 09-08-2003, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dima y
very very nice looking!

may i suggest (insist on) something?

HOSECLAMPS on the water blocks. plz dude you dont want all that money and hard and beautiful work to go to waste do you?

Plz buy some hoseclamps

Yeah, clamps are good, but cable ties are so much better and so much cheaper. 200 for like $2.00.

dima y · 09-09-2003, 12:26 AM

whatever floats your boat! as long as there is some sort of squizing force on the hoses, i suggest these:

http://www.pi-thon.com/Spanner.htm

they are really sweet:

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthrea...0&pagenumber=6

cahillr · 09-09-2003, 12:18 PM

Thanks for the replies all apreciated

Dimay. I've honestly never used any form of hose clamps and never found a problem, I guess as I always use over sized barbs the hose tends to grip very well, I will try and get some of those python connectors for the waterblocks though as they look rather nice and the barbs are standard 12mm. But so far not a single leak from the hosing on the barbs.

Xerca. The fans will never be turned up unless it gets so toasty in here that it needs it which here in the Uk is about two months a year so i decided I wanted it to look clean and simple. I was tempted to put a temp readout on the outside though.

One thing I forgot to mention is that the grills are all removable, the fastenings are rare earth magnets mounted in the wood then painted over to make it all invisible..magnets are fantastic for moutning grills on the pc's as well, no more ugly screws

g.l.amour · 09-09-2003, 12:50 PM

about the spills in plexi cathar

i'm having similar problems with the tops or jet-middle pieces i make. first leaktest's give no leaks whatsoever. but after a few weeks small leaks start to form. not like in that picture but enough to color the copper. no damage because apparently evaporates too fast.

1) micro cracks after a while because of the pressure

2) bad sealant

i tend to think that it is caused by nr1. because its not high grade stuff i use; maybe lexan is better than cheap-ass plexi...

Joe · 09-09-2003, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by orev
Yeah, clamps are good, but cable ties are so much better and so much cheaper. 200 for like $2.00.

Umm cable ties suck for hose retention and seals since the movement of the zip tie tends to collect any slack in the hose into one area they more times than not will CAUSE a leak rather than stop one.

Cathar · 09-09-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
about the spills in plexi cathar

i'm having similar problems with the tops or jet-middle pieces i make. first leaktest's give no leaks whatsoever. but after a few weeks small leaks start to form. not like in that picture but enough to color the copper. no damage because apparently evaporates too fast.

1) micro cracks after a while because of the pressure

2) bad sealant

i tend to think that it is caused by nr1. because its not high grade stuff i use; maybe lexan is better than cheap-ass plexi...

I'm almost positive in my case that it's not #1. The polycarb used is extremely difficult to crack. It just flexes around pressure points and it's almost "gummy" in a plastic sense.

A number of times I've cranked down the barbs super-tight just to see what would happen. Instead of cracking the thread eventually strips, but this takes a LOT of effort. On middle plates that were rejected due to machining faults I've been able to bend the tubes 90 degrees and bend them back again, and they look almost as good as new, which is an indication of how pliable the polycarb is to pressure situations.

I personally feel it's due to a bad sealant application or bad sealant curing. I apply the sealant by hand and do my best to ensure that there's no dry points, but I guess one or two might slip past me occasionally. Failing that, while it still hasnt fully cured (and therefore shrunk back into its final shape) the sealant was probably sealing, but after a week it will have cured, possibly revealing any small leaks then.

Acrylic/Plexi has poor stress resiliance compared to polycarb. If you're having problems with stress fractures, I recommend switching to polycarb.

09-08-2003, 06:22 PM	#4
Pritorian Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 201	Very very nice work! Giving me insiration too something the same! like the quick cinnect fitting, makes changing the blocks pretty easy. __________________ Boo!

09-08-2003, 07:39 PM	#5
xerka Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 107	DAMN! That is really nice. If I wouldn't of just bought a new bike I would probably set something up like that. My very first setup was external like that but it was a POS. Then I switched to it all internal, but that just got in the way. Right now I have nothing watercooled but I am getting a little sick of noise again. One question though, why didn't you mount the fan controls on the outside of the box? __________________ Folders: I've given up folding

09-09-2003, 12:50 PM	#10
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	about the spills in plexi cathar i'm having similar problems with the tops or jet-middle pieces i make. first leaktest's give no leaks whatsoever. but after a few weeks small leaks start to form. not like in that picture but enough to color the copper. no damage because apparently evaporates too fast. 1) micro cracks after a while because of the pressure 2) bad sealant i tend to think that it is caused by nr1. because its not high grade stuff i use; maybe lexan is better than cheap-ass plexi... __________________ yo soy un tiburón

09-08-2003, 01:59 PM	#1
cahillr Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3	My Radbox Radbox Creation Before starting I’d like to thank two forums and all the talented people on them for the entertainment, inspiration and insight you’ve given me over the years and the help, albeit indirectly on this project. www.procooling.com www.overclockers.com.au Also I’ve included all but one of the pics as links so as not to cause the 56k people a headache. After playing around with water cooling for 2+ years I decided I wanted to do something a little different, the two main criteria I aimed for are :- 1. Cool 2. Quiet 3. Not to large 4. Easily movable (for cleaning and working on, etc) I used to take my main PC to LAN parties but now have a shuttle for that so it was decided it wasn’t necessary to make it portable and self contained in the PC as my original water cooling systems. The thought of having everything external has always appealed but due to the LAN parties was previously not practical, now was the time to give it a try. I’ve seen far to many of these external systems just thrown together over a bench and called a complete cooling system, so I knew I wanted this to look the part as well as work very well. I decided on a rad box with everything bar the blocks enclosed inside, next step was to think what components I actually wanted this system to be made from and build around those. Little bit of system info is needed before I carry on so you can see what I’m designing for. Case - Coolermaster 110 MB - MSI K7D Master (Dual MP) CPU - 2x MP2400 The case had already been modded for the previous water cooling by having a large panel cut out of the top for the radiator to sit in, this will be left in place and a plate made up to house 2 slow/quiet 120mm fans to pull the hot air out. The list came out as :- Hardware 1. 2xCathar’s Cascade WB (what else 2. 2xThermochill 120.3 Rads (Best I’ve seen so far and BillA’s testing on these looked good) 3. Eheim 1260 pump (to be replaced with an Iwaki) 4. 4xSunon fans (best I found for CFM vs dB) 5. PWM fan controller 6. Micro ATX PSU Other Criteria 7. Reservoir, always liked them as they make for easy filling and air removal 8. Quick disconnects of some kind 9. If it vibrates, insulate it 10. Easy to upgrade pump, reservoir as needed Details to keep flow rate up 1. Rad barbs are 14mm bored out to 12mm internally 2. Y connectors are all 16mm 3. Quick release connectors are 16mm 4. The only 2 quick 90 deg bends are 15mm copper With all the above the smallest internal diameter until it hits the blocks are 12mm. I won’t go into specific build details as I have next to no DIY skills but went and bought the tools and did it, so it’s not rocket science. The only thing I would say use the right tools, ie, do NOT try and cut straight lines with a jigsaw use a circular saw or at a minimum clamp batons to the wood to act as guides. If there’s something not obvious from the pictures please post and I’ll explain the details. Similarly the principles behind what I have done with regard to the dual rads are well know and need no explanation, the only thing a little different from the norm is that I went for a parallel connection for the cpu’s rather than the normal serial. Given enough flow rate in the system this seemed a much better approach baring in mind how restrictive the Cascade in relation to most blocks. After testing I’m getting very approximately 6lpm through each side of the Y connector flowing into the blocks, which should be sufficient for the moment. I have planned to replace the pump with an Iwaki once a decent settling in period has gone through to make sure it all works as anticipated. Temps (These are an average between the two cpu’s as they both report slightly different temps) Before (with 2x Coolermaster Aero7+ near maximum speed) Ambient 24 Idle 42 Load 48-50 After (with all fans at 8v which is virtually silent) Ambient 24 Idle 33 Load 38-40 I’ve not tried it with all the fans on max as it’s meant to be quiet, once I have the Iwaki in place in a few weeks I’ll do the temps again with max fan voltage as well this time. This is my first post on these forums and I hope I’ve learnt all my lessons well anyway it’s open to the floor for comments and questions. Pics for your enjoyment The Eheim quickfits I used http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/quickfits.jpg Rads/Fans/Controller and PSU in http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/radsin1.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/radsin2.jpg Pump tray all ready to go, I mounted it all on a separate platform to keep vibration down and also to allow easy upgrade without destroying the main unit by drilling loads of holes in it. http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/ptray1.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/ptray2.jpg Pump tray mounted inside the box on it’s vibration absorbing feet http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/inside1.jpg All the internals done and ready for testing. http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/Finished1.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/Finished2.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/Finished3.jpg Motherboard with blocks on being tested outside the case for any leaks…… http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blocks1.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blocks2.jpg Oooops found one, and it’s in the block I did buy two spare tops from cathar, but decided for the moment to patch it with superglue and silicon sealant, when I do the pump and overhaul the system I’ll replace the top. http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/blockleak.jpg And almost to the end…a few shots of the box from outside, you may notice that from the side the radiator still looks white, I have dust filters in front of them, nice and easy to clean rather tha stripping the unit down and hovering it out http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/side.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/front.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/finished4.jpg http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/finished5.jpg Andfinally all in and working 8) http://www.images.golum.biz/radbox/allin.jpg

09-08-2003, 02:35 PM	#2
dima y Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: palo alto, CA Posts: 164	very very nice looking! may i suggest (insist on) something? HOSECLAMPS on the water blocks. plz dude you dont want all that money and hard and beautiful work to go to waste do you? Plz buy some hoseclamps

09-08-2003, 08:54 PM	#6
Caeberos Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 32	If i ever make another water cooling setup, it is gonna look somthing like that . Cept maybe use several 12v rotrons and heater cores. maybe an iwaki pump.... yeh

09-09-2003, 12:26 AM	#8
dima y Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: palo alto, CA Posts: 164	whatever floats your boat! as long as there is some sort of squizing force on the hoses, i suggest these: http://www.pi-thon.com/Spanner.htm they are really sweet: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthrea...0&pagenumber=6

09-09-2003, 12:18 PM	#9
cahillr Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3	Thanks for the replies all apreciated Dimay. I've honestly never used any form of hose clamps and never found a problem, I guess as I always use over sized barbs the hose tends to grip very well, I will try and get some of those python connectors for the waterblocks though as they look rather nice and the barbs are standard 12mm. But so far not a single leak from the hosing on the barbs. Xerca. The fans will never be turned up unless it gets so toasty in here that it needs it which here in the Uk is about two months a year so i decided I wanted it to look clean and simple. I was tempted to put a temp readout on the outside though. One thing I forgot to mention is that the grills are all removable, the fastenings are rare earth magnets mounted in the wood then painted over to make it all invisible..magnets are fantastic for moutning grills on the pc's as well, no more ugly screws

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