MCP600 vs. DD12V-D4?

Tyop · 03-11-2004, 07:52 AM

Yes, it's me again. Yes, it's another pump related topic.

If you were to undervolt a D4 how would it compare to the MCP600, both in performance and noise level? I haven't been able to find any such comparison anywhere.

I would also be interested in a comparison between the D4 using 1/2" or 3/4" inlet/outlet, also with regards to noise and performance.

AngryAlpaca · 03-11-2004, 08:35 AM

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=276809 It should get substantially higher flow, but with more than twice the heat.

Tyop · 03-11-2004, 08:53 AM

Thanks for the informative link! I guess the D4 is completely out of the running for me then, since I'd like a more quiet setup. Either import a MCP600 from the US, or try and find someone who actually have pump relays in stock and just get a 1250.

prandtl · 03-11-2004, 11:06 AM

solid state relays can be bought at any surplus electronic store.

Butcher · 03-11-2004, 11:50 AM

Why would you want a solid state one? A standard relay is much cheaper and more easily obtainable, and doesn't suffer from heating issues.

If you have some basic electronics knowledge wiring a pump relay is very easy, just make sure you get a relay with contacts rated for the specified current.

feathers · 03-11-2004, 05:59 PM

"Why would you want a solid state one? A standard relay is much cheaper and more easily obtainable, and doesn't suffer from heating issues." - Uhh.. because a solid state relay is much more reliable? A mechanical relay will eventually wear out. A solid state relay will have a much longer lifespan and also doesn't suffer from heating issues. I use a 13-amp mains relay which is activated by a small voltage and doesn't generate any heat.

feathers · 03-11-2004, 06:00 PM

It's a solid-state relay.

Turbokeu · 03-12-2004, 03:06 AM

When using SSR's (solid state relays) an important factor is the holding current.
The holding current is the minimum load current through the triac at which it will conduct with his gate fired up.
The holding current is often specified for 50-60mA (see the datasheet of your SSR), it means that with 110VAC mains voltage you nead a load of at least 5.5 to 6.6W, and with 220VAC mains voltage 11 to 13W. That means that with 220VAC and a Eheim 1046 (5W) or 1048 (10W) for example the SSR wouldn't work...

CD

Turbokeu · 03-12-2004, 03:08 AM

When using SSR's (solid state relays) an important factor is the holding current.
The holding current is the minimum load current through the triac at which it will conduct with his gate fired up.
The holding current is often specified for 50-60mA (see the datasheet of your SSR), it means that with 110VAC mains voltage you nead a load of at least 5.5 to 6.6W, and with 220VAC mains voltage 11 to 13W. That means that with 220VAC and a Eheim 1046 (5W) or 1048 (10W) for example the SSR wouldn't work...

Also heat isn't really an issue since SSR's are rated for several Amps, and most pumps used in WC only draw a little fraction of that.

CD

Sorry, double post, just wanted to edit it ... :shrug:

Tyop · 03-12-2004, 03:36 AM

Love your avatar Turbokeu!

I've ordered a MCP600, a White Water and a Maze4 GPU block. Now I can't stop thinking about how to mount all of it in my case! Going to have to move it's current air cooled innards to an old case so I can mod in peace.

Turbokeu · 03-12-2004, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyop

Love your avatar Turbokeu!

I've ordered a MCP600, a White Water and a Maze4 GPU block. Now I can't stop thinking about how to mount all of it in my case! Going to have to move it's current air cooled innards to an old case so I can mod in peace.

Avatar??? That's a picture of me when I was 5 years old...

That's the best thing you can do, that way you're not in a hurry to finish it.
Carefull planning is half of the work...
Which case do you have?

CD

Tyop · 03-12-2004, 06:27 PM

I got an Antec Sonata case:

I'm thinking of removing the harddrive tray thingy and make a hole in the bottom of the case for the heatercore and fan(s). Then add a reservoir to the top of the case, like an Aquatube or something home made.

The slickest layout would be to have a T-line in the hose going to the CPU block and not having a reservoir, but I'm not sure how messy filling/bleeding a T-line is in the long run.

I'm open to suggestions!

rundymc · 03-12-2004, 07:38 PM

fill and bleed outside of the case before you leak test, I think that's what most ppl do
what I used to do was to put the two hose connections that go to the T-fitting and put them in a clean tupperware reservoir
the bleeding process is greatly shortened, after about half a day (just to be sure) I connect the T-fitting submerged (with clean hands to prevent any major contamination)

go with the hdd carriages, lots of ppl do it, but I recommend sucking out of the case through the rad, rather than blowing in

Turbokeu · 03-13-2004, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rundymc

go with the hdd carriages, lots of ppl do it, but I recommend sucking out of the case through the rad, rather than blowing in

Agreed for the HDD carriages, but I wouldn't recommend sucking warm air (ambient +5°C-ish) from the case through the rad.
It would be better to suck fresh ambient room air through the rad into the case.
The rad will heat the air only by a couple of degrees which doesn't matter for the the inside of the case. But it matters a lot for your coolant temp since at best it will be a couple of degrees higher than the air you use to cool the rad.

When I started my WC-ed Lian Li PC-70 project (july 2001) and showed it on the forum here everybody stated that it was bad to suck warm air from the case through my rad.
That pushed me to make a complete separate air intake and outtake for my rad...

CD

Tyop · 03-13-2004, 04:50 AM

Yeah I was thinking of sucking fresh air through the radiator. The reasoning for this is that sucking air in will hopefully result in positive pressure inside the case, or atleast +/- 0 with the rear exhaust fan and PSU fan. That way I wont suck dust in through every little hole in the case, such as optical drives, instead I can put a low restriction filter at the radiator inlet.

Point taken about filling and bleeding outside the case when using a T-line. I'm gonna have to do some more research about them before I decide.

Butcher · 03-13-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feathers

"Why would you want a solid state one? A standard relay is much cheaper and more easily obtainable, and doesn't suffer from heating issues." - Uhh.. because a solid state relay is much more reliable? A mechanical relay will eventually wear out. A solid state relay will have a much longer lifespan and also doesn't suffer from heating issues. I use a 13-amp mains relay which is activated by a small voltage and doesn't generate any heat.

On the other hand, the odds are your pump will wear out long before a mechanical relay.

Tyop · 03-17-2004, 02:03 AM

Off topic:

Gotta love those intra-EU import rules! No extra tax, no customs fees and the shipping wasn't much more expensive than domestic shipping.

Someone is in need of some lovin' tho.

Gonna have to keep a project log somewhere.

Butcher · 03-17-2004, 06:18 AM

I got my DD blocks from criticool in canada - despite being imported from otuside the EU there were no import duties to pay and it worked out a LOT cheaper than a local supplier.

fhorst · 03-17-2004, 01:52 PM

I have one MCP600 left over. I bought 2, for a dual pump setup, but it did not help my temps... I live in Europe, The Netherlands..

Turbokeu · 03-17-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhorst

I have one MCP600 left over. I bought 2, for a dual pump setup, but it did not help my temps... I live in Europe, The Netherlands..

Hoeveel vraag je ervoor? - how much do you ask for it?
Also, which version is it? (original?, modded impeller/trust bearing?, Version2 ?)

Please let me know.

CD

Turbokeu · 03-17-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyop

The slickest layout would be to have a T-line in the hose going to the CPU block and not having a reservoir, but I'm not sure how messy filling/bleeding a T-line is in the long run.
I'm open to suggestions!

I strongly advise to not put your T-line before the CPU and/or VGA block (maximum restriction is in that point of the loop) . Ideally, the T-line should be in the return line to the pump (least pressure). That way you're sure the T-line will not overflow due to pressure.

CD

Maximilium · 03-18-2004, 02:52 AM

for the money you can spend on the D4 you should be able to do this, i am on my "test phase", i love this litle pumps, they are quiet.

BillA · 03-18-2004, 09:52 AM

I gotta ask:
what WCing setup requires 2 of these pumps ?
can you run your system with 1 pump and get some temps ?
then insert the second pump and see the change in temps ?
(more complex is often for negligible gains)

just curious
- like that blue color though

msv · 03-18-2004, 10:53 AM

Tjenare, Tyop!
Where did You order the MCP600 from? I´ve tried to some distributor here in Sweden, but have failed so far (piling the failures, depressive hobby).
regards
Mikael S.

pauldenton · 03-18-2004, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msv

Tjenare, Tyop!
Where did You order the MCP600 from? I´ve tried to some distributor here in Sweden, but have failed so far (piling the failures, depressive hobby).
regards
Mikael S.

this UK site now stocks them - £54.34 inc VAT. it looks as if they will export but best to email them i guess.....
http://www.overclock.co.uk/customer/...roductid=17372

03-11-2004, 07:52 AM	#1
Tyop Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	MCP600 vs. DD12V-D4? Yes, it's me again. Yes, it's another pump related topic. If you were to undervolt a D4 how would it compare to the MCP600, both in performance and noise level? I haven't been able to find any such comparison anywhere. I would also be interested in a comparison between the D4 using 1/2" or 3/4" inlet/outlet, also with regards to noise and performance.

03-11-2004, 11:06 AM	#4
prandtl Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 60	solid state relays can be bought at any surplus electronic store. __________________ OCS CS clan

03-11-2004, 11:50 AM	#5
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	Why would you want a solid state one? A standard relay is much cheaper and more easily obtainable, and doesn't suffer from heating issues. If you have some basic electronics knowledge wiring a pump relay is very easy, just make sure you get a relay with contacts rated for the specified current. __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

03-12-2004, 03:06 AM	#8
Turbokeu Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brussels - Belgium Posts: 232	When using SSR's (solid state relays) an important factor is the holding current. The holding current is the minimum load current through the triac at which it will conduct with his gate fired up. The holding current is often specified for 50-60mA (see the datasheet of your SSR), it means that with 110VAC mains voltage you nead a load of at least 5.5 to 6.6W, and with 220VAC mains voltage 11 to 13W. That means that with 220VAC and a Eheim 1046 (5W) or 1048 (10W) for example the SSR wouldn't work... CD __________________ My website: http://www.turbokeu.com Backup website: http://www2.turbokeu.com My company: http://www.kdcs.be

03-12-2004, 03:08 AM	#9
Turbokeu Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brussels - Belgium Posts: 232	When using SSR's (solid state relays) an important factor is the holding current. The holding current is the minimum load current through the triac at which it will conduct with his gate fired up. The holding current is often specified for 50-60mA (see the datasheet of your SSR), it means that with 110VAC mains voltage you nead a load of at least 5.5 to 6.6W, and with 220VAC mains voltage 11 to 13W. That means that with 220VAC and a Eheim 1046 (5W) or 1048 (10W) for example the SSR wouldn't work... Also heat isn't really an issue since SSR's are rated for several Amps, and most pumps used in WC only draw a little fraction of that. CD Sorry, double post, just wanted to edit it ... :shrug: __________________ My website: http://www.turbokeu.com Backup website: http://www2.turbokeu.com My company: http://www.kdcs.be

03-11-2004, 08:35 AM	#2
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=276809 It should get substantially higher flow, but with more than twice the heat.

03-11-2004, 08:53 AM	#3
Tyop Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	Thanks for the informative link! I guess the D4 is completely out of the running for me then, since I'd like a more quiet setup. Either import a MCP600 from the US, or try and find someone who actually have pump relays in stock and just get a 1250.

03-11-2004, 05:59 PM	#6
feathers Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: UK Posts: 81	"Why would you want a solid state one? A standard relay is much cheaper and more easily obtainable, and doesn't suffer from heating issues." - Uhh.. because a solid state relay is much more reliable? A mechanical relay will eventually wear out. A solid state relay will have a much longer lifespan and also doesn't suffer from heating issues. I use a 13-amp mains relay which is activated by a small voltage and doesn't generate any heat.

03-11-2004, 06:00 PM	#7
feathers Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: UK Posts: 81	It's a solid-state relay.

03-12-2004, 03:36 AM	#10
Tyop Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	Love your avatar Turbokeu! I've ordered a MCP600, a White Water and a Maze4 GPU block. Now I can't stop thinking about how to mount all of it in my case! Going to have to move it's current air cooled innards to an old case so I can mod in peace.

03-12-2004, 06:27 PM	#12
Tyop Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	I got an Antec Sonata case: I'm thinking of removing the harddrive tray thingy and make a hole in the bottom of the case for the heatercore and fan(s). Then add a reservoir to the top of the case, like an Aquatube or something home made. The slickest layout would be to have a T-line in the hose going to the CPU block and not having a reservoir, but I'm not sure how messy filling/bleeding a T-line is in the long run. I'm open to suggestions!

03-12-2004, 07:38 PM	#13
rundymc Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 67	fill and bleed outside of the case before you leak test, I think that's what most ppl do what I used to do was to put the two hose connections that go to the T-fitting and put them in a clean tupperware reservoir the bleeding process is greatly shortened, after about half a day (just to be sure) I connect the T-fitting submerged (with clean hands to prevent any major contamination) go with the hdd carriages, lots of ppl do it, but I recommend sucking out of the case through the rad, rather than blowing in

03-13-2004, 04:50 AM	#15
Tyop Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	Yeah I was thinking of sucking fresh air through the radiator. The reasoning for this is that sucking air in will hopefully result in positive pressure inside the case, or atleast +/- 0 with the rear exhaust fan and PSU fan. That way I wont suck dust in through every little hole in the case, such as optical drives, instead I can put a low restriction filter at the radiator inlet. Point taken about filling and bleeding outside the case when using a T-line. I'm gonna have to do some more research about them before I decide.

03-17-2004, 02:03 AM	#17
Tyop Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	Off topic: Gotta love those intra-EU import rules! No extra tax, no customs fees and the shipping wasn't much more expensive than domestic shipping. Someone is in need of some lovin' tho. Gonna have to keep a project log somewhere.

03-17-2004, 06:18 AM	#18
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	I got my DD blocks from criticool in canada - despite being imported from otuside the EU there were no import duties to pay and it worked out a LOT cheaper than a local supplier. __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

03-17-2004, 01:52 PM	#19
fhorst Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Almere, The Netherlands (Europe) Posts: 262	I have one MCP600 left over. I bought 2, for a dual pump setup, but it did not help my temps... I live in Europe, The Netherlands.. __________________ If it get's hot, it needs to be watercooled!

03-18-2004, 02:52 AM	#22
Maximilium Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 68	for the money you can spend on the D4 you should be able to do this, i am on my "test phase", i love this litle pumps, they are quiet. __________________ Maximilium Last edited by Maximilium; 03-28-2004 at 02:27 PM. Reason: picture link fix

03-18-2004, 09:52 AM	#23
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	I gotta ask: what WCing setup requires 2 of these pumps ? can you run your system with 1 pump and get some temps ? then insert the second pump and see the change in temps ? (more complex is often for negligible gains) just curious - like that blue color though

03-18-2004, 10:53 AM	#24
msv Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 336	Tjenare, Tyop! Where did You order the MCP600 from? I´ve tried to some distributor here in Sweden, but have failed so far (piling the failures, depressive hobby). regards Mikael S. __________________ The only constant factor in all Your failures is You. Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnen mihi habis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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