GPU block......thoughts?

Wilier · 09-23-2004, 03:59 AM

Hey chaps.
Ive got an Nvidia 5800 ultra which has the old "dust buster" cooler attached. Now this is a good card, but DAMN is it noisy. So having fitted my first WC rig, I decided I would design and build a water-block for the card to replace the old cooler.

Basically, Ive measured the memory chips and GPU itself, and come up with a plan, but need to know if you think it will work.

The image isnt great, but click it to get a bigger version:

The red dotted lines are the locations of the chips, the black the proposed outline of the water-chanels. I was going to put the water in directly above the GPU, and then out above the farthest-most memory chips (green circles)

The block itself will be made from 12mm copper sheet, the bottom side machined to accept the lower memory chips. I was thinking of making the top from acrylic, sealed to the base by either a gasket or an o-ring.

Pump I have is an Eheim 1048, which is currently pumping through an XXS Innovatek CPU block. Will it be man enough for the task do you think?

Any comments will be greatly received.

bigben2k · 09-23-2004, 02:06 PM

I think it'll work just fine. The only issue I see you battling with, is sealing the top.

An o-ring is best, but it's gotta be done right (search here, much info available).

A gasket might be easier, but you ought to know that the surfaces have to be nicely flat, and that you should really give yourself a good gap, as well as making sure that it's screwed in properly: you really can't have too many screws there.

MadHacker · 09-23-2004, 02:52 PM

looking at the picture, will the water flow to the ram chips but it won't flow much at the ram chips that do not have water outlets, maybe making a path so that it will force the water to flow past the other ram chips as well?
my 2¢

bigben2k · 09-23-2004, 05:26 PM

Yeah, I spotted that too, but given the heatload, I'm pretty sure that it's not going to have an impact.

|kbn| · 09-23-2004, 05:40 PM

Imo skip the GPU inlet and have it flowing from ram->gpu->ram.
Gpus dont make that much heat (compared to cpus anyway - and then its a bigger area to cool anyway), even 6800s, itd be nicer with just two barbs.sticking out.
That would ean you need wider channels for the increrased flow, dunno if it would fit..

Also dont use accrylic it cracks too easly. Polycarb is good but there are better plastics that are not transparent, but as the block faces downwards, you wouldnt see much of it anyway.
Of those plastics, ones I can remember are derlin, maybe slightly expensive/hard to find
The other is polyethylene, a good soft easy to machine material that is not brittle so wont crack, and is compleatly fine with water in it. Most plastic containers for solvents/petrol are made from HDPE so its a good choice. Also cutting/chopping boards are often made of it, which is a good cheap source of thick plastic for tops - the same size in accrylic or polycarb would probably cost 5-20x more!

Are you making it by cnc or just a normal mill/other tools?

Anyway make sure you post pics of the finnished block

Wilier · 09-25-2004, 07:36 AM

OK, thanks for the responses, very helpfull all of you.
I do have a couple more questions though.

If I make the block smaller, ie. remove most of the excess copper and have channels to each area that needs cooling, will this help in the cooling effect? I guess what Im asking is, does more copper (not wetted) equal better cooling, or does the non-wetted copper actually retain heat? making the cooling water work harder?

:shrug:

Wil.

|kbn| · 09-25-2004, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilier

OK, thanks for the responses, very helpfull all of you.
I do have a couple more questions though.

If I make the block smaller, ie. remove most of the excess copper and have channels to each area that needs cooling, will this help in the cooling effect? I guess what Im asking is, does more copper (not wetted) equal better cooling, or does the non-wetted copper actually retain heat? making the cooling water work harder?

:shrug:

Wil.

From my understanding, excess copper is just that, excesss. Not needed.

It will retain heat upto the temperature of the surroundings (be that block, ambient air or water). The amount of heat is dependant on the specific heat of the material and the thermal resistance for it to be disipated through minor heat paths (copper->air for example, in a waterblock).
Unless it affects the major heat paths (cpu->water) it can not reduce cooling performance to remove or add it.

MadHacker · 09-26-2004, 12:30 AM

the only issues i know of extra copper will have is weight...
how much extra weight do you want to have on your video card?
my 2¢

bigben2k · 09-26-2004, 11:01 AM

Better to have a wide gap, if using RTV/silicone to seal the top.

As for weight:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10367

Kobuchi · 09-26-2004, 01:39 PM

More copper is heavier, and seems wasteful when you post the pics we're all keen to see. On the other hand, mass buys time if the pump fails.

To seal a shape like that I'd solder on a sheet of brass or copper.

bigben2k · 09-26-2004, 06:53 PM

Here's a link to the same tool I mentionned, from a great site with many other usefull tools. Prices seemed reasonable, but not beyond average:
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=82817

Wilier · 09-30-2004, 05:18 AM

Right, well Ive taken everything on-board that's been said, thanks for your help.

Ive had the base machined to accept the DDR chip step-downs, still need lapping though. At the moment, the slab is still at its maximum size, but this will be chopped down after the machining is complete to remove the excess.

Click for a bigger version.

noxqzs · 10-03-2004, 07:04 PM

wouldn't it be best to leave that till the last step, so that you have an even surface with which to work with?

09-23-2004, 03:59 AM	#1
Wilier Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK Posts: 12	GPU block. Hey chaps. Ive got an Nvidia 5800 ultra which has the old "dust buster" cooler attached. Now this is a good card, but DAMN is it noisy. So having fitted my first WC rig, I decided I would design and build a water-block for the card to replace the old cooler. Basically, Ive measured the memory chips and GPU itself, and come up with a plan, but need to know if you think it will work. The image isnt great, but click it to get a bigger version: The red dotted lines are the locations of the chips, the black the proposed outline of the water-chanels. I was going to put the water in directly above the GPU, and then out above the farthest-most memory chips (green circles) The block itself will be made from 12mm copper sheet, the bottom side machined to accept the lower memory chips. I was thinking of making the top from acrylic, sealed to the base by either a gasket or an o-ring. Pump I have is an Eheim 1048, which is currently pumping through an XXS Innovatek CPU block. Will it be man enough for the task do you think? Any comments will be greatly received. Last edited by Wilier; 09-30-2004 at 05:19 AM.

09-23-2004, 02:06 PM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I think it'll work just fine. The only issue I see you battling with, is sealing the top. An o-ring is best, but it's gotta be done right (search here, much info available). A gasket might be easier, but you ought to know that the surfaces have to be nicely flat, and that you should really give yourself a good gap, as well as making sure that it's screwed in properly: you really can't have too many screws there. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-23-2004, 02:52 PM	#3
MadHacker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Okotoks, A.B. Canada Posts: 726	looking at the picture, will the water flow to the ram chips but it won't flow much at the ram chips that do not have water outlets, maybe making a path so that it will force the water to flow past the other ram chips as well? my 2¢ __________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - (Einstein)

09-23-2004, 05:26 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yeah, I spotted that too, but given the heatload, I'm pretty sure that it's not going to have an impact. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-26-2004, 12:30 AM	#8
MadHacker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Okotoks, A.B. Canada Posts: 726	the only issues i know of extra copper will have is weight... how much extra weight do you want to have on your video card? my 2¢ __________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - (Einstein)

09-23-2004, 05:40 PM	#5
\|kbn\| Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: W. Sussex, UK Posts: 329	Imo skip the GPU inlet and have it flowing from ram->gpu->ram. Gpus dont make that much heat (compared to cpus anyway - and then its a bigger area to cool anyway), even 6800s, itd be nicer with just two barbs.sticking out. That would ean you need wider channels for the increrased flow, dunno if it would fit.. Also dont use accrylic it cracks too easly. Polycarb is good but there are better plastics that are not transparent, but as the block faces downwards, you wouldnt see much of it anyway. Of those plastics, ones I can remember are derlin, maybe slightly expensive/hard to find The other is polyethylene, a good soft easy to machine material that is not brittle so wont crack, and is compleatly fine with water in it. Most plastic containers for solvents/petrol are made from HDPE so its a good choice. Also cutting/chopping boards are often made of it, which is a good cheap source of thick plastic for tops - the same size in accrylic or polycarb would probably cost 5-20x more! Are you making it by cnc or just a normal mill/other tools? Anyway make sure you post pics of the finnished block

09-25-2004, 07:36 AM	#6
Wilier Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK Posts: 12	OK, thanks for the responses, very helpfull all of you. I do have a couple more questions though. If I make the block smaller, ie. remove most of the excess copper and have channels to each area that needs cooling, will this help in the cooling effect? I guess what Im asking is, does more copper (not wetted) equal better cooling, or does the non-wetted copper actually retain heat? making the cooling water work harder? :shrug: Wil.

09-26-2004, 11:01 AM	#9
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Better to have a wide gap, if using RTV/silicone to seal the top. As for weight: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10367 __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-26-2004, 01:39 PM	#10
Kobuchi Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 313	More copper is heavier, and seems wasteful when you post the pics we're all keen to see. On the other hand, mass buys time if the pump fails. To seal a shape like that I'd solder on a sheet of brass or copper.

09-26-2004, 06:53 PM	#11
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Here's a link to the same tool I mentionned, from a great site with many other usefull tools. Prices seemed reasonable, but not beyond average: http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=82817 __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-30-2004, 05:18 AM	#12
Wilier Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK Posts: 12	Started machining. Right, well Ive taken everything on-board that's been said, thanks for your help. Ive had the base machined to accept the DDR chip step-downs, still need lapping though. At the moment, the slab is still at its maximum size, but this will be chopped down after the machining is complete to remove the excess. Click for a bigger version.

10-03-2004, 07:04 PM	#13
noxqzs Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MA Posts: 7	wouldn't it be best to leave that till the last step, so that you have an even surface with which to work with?

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