Oil Coolers - Better than heatercores?

MeowChow · 05-24-2003, 11:06 PM

The top-performing Serck that BillA tested is an oil cooler. They are generally designed for minimal pressure drop, and often employ internal turbulators. So, cost aside, are oil coolers a better choice than heatercores?

As far as cost goes, Setrab makes a line of high-performance oil coolers, which can be purchased on eBay for about $40-$50 (comparable to the Serck: 11x5x2, 16 plates).

ps. Any ideas on what would be the best way to clean oil out of one of these?

joemac · 05-24-2003, 11:18 PM

I have had better results with oil cooler but that is my personal experience, as for how to clean them? Do you mean remove oil? Try a degreaser.

#Rotor · 05-25-2003, 12:01 AM

I'm running an oil-cooler, very similar to that, and I will hands down go for a properly ventilated heater-core....

the oil coolers such as on the ebay link is very very nice, and very price competitive. They also have a much nicer shape, for (allinonecase) apps, but if sheer brute force is the requirement, a nice 9" heater-core, is pretty damn hard to beat....

MeowChow · 05-25-2003, 02:21 AM

JoeMac - What heater cores and oil coolers have you compared (ie. size/design/mfg/etc)?

Rotor - Is yours a 16 plate design? I suppose, by simple extrapolation from Big Momma's results, that a 9" heater core might surpass the Serck and other similar oil coolers in raw heat transfer capacity at a given rate of flow; however, the significantly lower head loss of an oil cooler may result in a net system improvement over the heater core. Or perhaps I'm putting too much faith in flow...

bigben2k · 05-25-2003, 10:38 AM

There's more than one type of oil cooler (which as far as I know, are tranny coolers).

The Hayden series have built-in turbulators, which give them an excellent performance, not unlike the Serck.

A straight pipe type cooler will not perform anywhere near as well as those, or a heatercore. Of course this doesn't prevent one from putting in their own turbulators...

MeowChow · 05-25-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
There's more than one type of oil cooler (which as far as I know, are tranny coolers).

Engine oil coolers are not the same as transmission oil coolers. Engine oil coolers are designed to be less restrictive, and generally higher performing. While you can use an engine oil cooler for your transmission oil, the reverse is not necessarily true. The Serck and Setrab are both engine oil coolers.

Quote:

The Hayden series have built-in turbulators, which give them an excellent performance, not unlike the Serck.

A straight pipe type cooler will not perform anywhere near as well as those, or a heatercore. Of course this doesn't prevent one from putting in their own turbulators...

You mean these? It looks like all their engine oil coolers are pipe coolers with turbulators, like the 5x10 BeCooling unit BillA tested. Hayden's only plate coolers are transmission oil coolers like the "twice blessed" and "miracle midget wonder" of BillA's tests, which don't contain turbulators, afaik.

satanicoo · 05-25-2003, 06:03 PM

in a low-flow ,high restrictive system, the best is to opt for a heater-core/oil-coolers with turbulators right?
since there is litle flow, turbulators will not put up much restriction right?

pelle76 · 05-25-2003, 06:13 PM

I dug this out of a BMW 520 -86. Its from the ClimatControl I think... Or atleast it was positioned behind the heatercore...

Its a 120mm

BTW... Heres the heatercore:

MeowChow · 05-25-2003, 07:36 PM

satanicoo:
Heater cores, to my knowledge, do not use turbulators. The need for turbulators in greatest in oil cooling applications, where the oil's high viscosity readily results in laminar flow conditions.

With regards to your second question, the presence or absence of turbulators should make little difference at any flow rate, relative to the overall design of the radiator. Flow restriction, analogous to resistance in electrical circuits, is mostly a function of length times the inverse of the cross sectional area. This is, for example, why 1-pass radiators usually have less head loss than 2-pass radiators of equivalent size: the 1-pass radiator has twice as many parallel tubes/plates (more cross sectional area), and the total length of each parallel segment is about half as long (less total length). The overall contribution of turbulators to pressure drop is probably quite small, but that's something only a fluid engineer or radiator designer can answer for sure.

pelle76:
Your first pic is an evaporator from the car's A/C.

satanicoo · 05-25-2003, 08:05 PM

pelle76, are those made of copper or alu?
i wonder wich one is best.... probably the heatercore

pelle76 · 05-26-2003, 05:11 AM

They are both alu...

bigben2k · 05-26-2003, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MeowChow
Engine oil coolers are not the same as transmission oil coolers. Engine oil coolers are designed to be less restrictive, and generally higher performing. While you can use an engine oil cooler for your transmission oil, the reverse is not necessarily true. The Serck and Setrab are both engine oil coolers.

You mean these? It looks like all their engine oil coolers are pipe coolers with turbulators, like the 5x10 BeCooling unit BillA tested. Hayden's only plate coolers are transmission oil coolers like the "twice blessed" and "miracle midget wonder" of BillA's tests, which don't contain turbulators, afaik.

Hot Dog! There's actually an engine oil cooler! Either are indicated as having turbulators though.

I really can't remember which one Bill tested... let's search... Got it!, it's BeCooling's 5 x 10 cooler, which was not included in Bill's roundup. It's a Hayden Ultra-cool tranny cooler.

Here's a link to the turbulators in question.

BladeRunner · 05-26-2003, 06:53 PM

How about this:-

Out of a 1972 JCB, its all brass & copper construction, all older lorries, busses and tractors have rads made this way, alu and the equipment to make rads out of it was expensive back then.

cleanning it up and modding it now as I'll have to use it soon due to moving house

JokerCPoC · 06-06-2003, 02:17 AM

Or how about this one?
Beware It's rather LARGE!
Possible Radiator for Water Cooling?

ebay auction for this radiator, size mentioned there

mad mikee · 06-06-2003, 12:43 PM

knock off those 3/8" reducing barbs and make it a 1/2" connection.

JokerCPoC · 06-06-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mad mikee
knock off those 3/8" reducing barbs and make it a 1/2" connection.

I hope that's for the one that I mentioned, If It is then, I'll let whoever buys It do that.

redleader · 06-06-2003, 04:43 PM

zoom314: Would you make your sig smaller? It gets annoying when its twice as long as your posts.

JokerCPoC · 06-06-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redleader
zoom314: Would you make your sig smaller? It gets annoying when its twice as long as your posts.

How's that?

Sproket · 06-06-2003, 09:48 PM

I found this from Brian at Becooling. Its used but it 100% copper tubing and should solve my UV dye disappearing/trapping problem.
AquaCoil.

http://www.chadandjodi.com/watercool/newcoil1.jpg

Will have it in 4 days or so. I have tracking number.

Sproket · 06-06-2003, 09:50 PM

I will be selling my Dtek Brand new Rad for $25 with shroud, etc.
Used dtek rad for 3 days.

JokerCPoC · 06-06-2003, 09:57 PM

Wow, That's some rad, Mine only has six loops, yours looks like It has ten loops in It.

murray13 · 06-06-2003, 11:26 PM

For me when I bought my heater core it was a price/performance issue. It will be hard to beat what I found. The same heater core as a 2-302 (10 3/4 x 5 5/8 x 2). Anyone in America can get one of these for $19.99+local taxes at your local NAPA dealer. The NAPA part number is 4603056. If they give you a price higher than this tell them that is what is online at their site. (Check it first www.napaonline.com)

I don't think a Serck or similar going for $48+$12 shipping is going to out perform the one above enough to warrant spending 3 times the money. I could just go get a second one and still have money left over.

I have since moved on to using a water chiller (from ebay) that went for less than what some one spent on that serck type rad.

JokerCPoC · 06-06-2003, 11:44 PM

Well maybe I can't beat the price, My MaxXxpert cost Me $30.00, Shipping was Free though.

Sproket · 06-07-2003, 12:20 AM

Zoom314
How does your Maxxpert perform?
What are your temps?
Thanks

JokerCPoC · 06-07-2003, 01:15 AM

I didn't mean to imply that I had a working water cooling setup yet, I'm still 2 water blocks and a 12v pump away from that point yet.

View Poll Results: Best bang, disregarding buck:
heater core	21	67.74%
oil cooler	6	19.35%
transmission cooler	4	12.90%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

05-24-2003, 11:06 PM	#1
MeowChow Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5	Oil Coolers - Better than heatercores? The top-performing Serck that BillA tested is an oil cooler. They are generally designed for minimal pressure drop, and often employ internal turbulators. So, cost aside, are oil coolers a better choice than heatercores? As far as cost goes, Setrab makes a line of high-performance oil coolers, which can be purchased on eBay for about $40-$50 (comparable to the Serck: 11x5x2, 16 plates). ps. Any ideas on what would be the best way to clean oil out of one of these?

05-25-2003, 12:01 AM	#3
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I'm running an oil-cooler, very similar to that, and I will hands down go for a properly ventilated heater-core.... the oil coolers such as on the ebay link is very very nice, and very price competitive. They also have a much nicer shape, for (allinonecase) apps, but if sheer brute force is the requirement, a nice 9" heater-core, is pretty damn hard to beat.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

05-25-2003, 10:38 AM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	There's more than one type of oil cooler (which as far as I know, are tranny coolers). The Hayden series have built-in turbulators, which give them an excellent performance, not unlike the Serck. A straight pipe type cooler will not perform anywhere near as well as those, or a heatercore. Of course this doesn't prevent one from putting in their own turbulators... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-26-2003, 06:53 PM	#13
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	How about this:- Out of a 1972 JCB, its all brass & copper construction, all older lorries, busses and tractors have rads made this way, alu and the equipment to make rads out of it was expensive back then. cleanning it up and modding it now as I'll have to use it soon due to moving house __________________ Zero Fan Zone

05-24-2003, 11:18 PM	#2
joemac Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dallas Posts: 339	I have had better results with oil cooler but that is my personal experience, as for how to clean them? Do you mean remove oil? Try a degreaser.

05-25-2003, 02:21 AM	#4
MeowChow Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5	JoeMac - What heater cores and oil coolers have you compared (ie. size/design/mfg/etc)? Rotor - Is yours a 16 plate design? I suppose, by simple extrapolation from Big Momma's results, that a 9" heater core might surpass the Serck and other similar oil coolers in raw heat transfer capacity at a given rate of flow; however, the significantly lower head loss of an oil cooler may result in a net system improvement over the heater core. Or perhaps I'm putting too much faith in flow...

05-25-2003, 06:03 PM	#7
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	in a low-flow ,high restrictive system, the best is to opt for a heater-core/oil-coolers with turbulators right? since there is litle flow, turbulators will not put up much restriction right?

05-25-2003, 06:13 PM	#8
pelle76 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sweden, Skovde Posts: 101	I dug this out of a BMW 520 -86. Its from the ClimatControl I think... Or atleast it was positioned behind the heatercore... Its a 120mm BTW... Heres the heatercore:

05-25-2003, 07:36 PM	#9
MeowChow Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5	satanicoo: Heater cores, to my knowledge, do not use turbulators. The need for turbulators in greatest in oil cooling applications, where the oil's high viscosity readily results in laminar flow conditions. With regards to your second question, the presence or absence of turbulators should make little difference at any flow rate, relative to the overall design of the radiator. Flow restriction, analogous to resistance in electrical circuits, is mostly a function of length times the inverse of the cross sectional area. This is, for example, why 1-pass radiators usually have less head loss than 2-pass radiators of equivalent size: the 1-pass radiator has twice as many parallel tubes/plates (more cross sectional area), and the total length of each parallel segment is about half as long (less total length). The overall contribution of turbulators to pressure drop is probably quite small, but that's something only a fluid engineer or radiator designer can answer for sure. pelle76: Your first pic is an evaporator from the car's A/C.

05-25-2003, 08:05 PM	#10
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	pelle76, are those made of copper or alu? i wonder wich one is best.... probably the heatercore

05-26-2003, 05:11 AM	#11
pelle76 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sweden, Skovde Posts: 101	They are both alu...

06-06-2003, 02:17 AM	#14
JokerCPoC Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 130	Or how about this one? Beware It's rather LARGE! Possible Radiator for Water Cooling? ebay auction for this radiator, size mentioned there __________________ My Blog Joker1: 2-265 @ 2.25GHz cpus(OSA265FAA6CB)[H8DCE] soon Joker2: 1-165 @ 2.65GHz cpu[Bios/Clockgen405], MS-6702E v1.0(9.3 Bios) Joker3: 1-270 @ 2.40(2nd-270 cpu soon)GHz cpu[Ntune], K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker4: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker5: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) (10.10GHz now, 25.43GHz maybe? Crunchin 4 SetiBoinc for the PC Perspective Killer Frogs)

06-06-2003, 12:43 PM	#15
mad mikee Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: US of A!!!! Posts: 146	I see some mods for it already... knock off those 3/8" reducing barbs and make it a 1/2" connection. __________________ His PCV2000 DFI ULTRA D (SLI Modded just because) 4200 x2 @ ~ 10 x 260 /1.49 Vcore , G5 + PA160 + 150mm Papst@5V + Maze 4 GPU + mcp350. Temp 36-37(load-2 x D20L) 2x1GB Ballistix PC4000, x800xl 256m, 74G rap + 160G Hitachi SATA , 21" mit/nec 1920x1440 Crt + 19 Neovo F-419 1280x1024 LCD, OCZ Powerstream 600 Hers: (my beloved who lets me do all this) LianLi PCV1000, SD3700 @ 9x300, 1GB GBLA, 250+ 120 SATA, X700pro, 19" Neovo F-419 LCD, another OCZ 600

06-06-2003, 04:43 PM	#17
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	zoom314: Would you make your sig smaller? It gets annoying when its twice as long as your posts.

06-06-2003, 09:48 PM	#19
Sproket Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 193	I found this from Brian at Becooling. Its used but it 100% copper tubing and should solve my UV dye disappearing/trapping problem. AquaCoil. http://www.chadandjodi.com/watercool/newcoil1.jpg Will have it in 4 days or so. I have tracking number. __________________ NF7-S Bios D1.8 218FSB X 11.5 1700+ DLT3C 0310 @ 2511Mhz TwinMos 2x256 PC3200 BH-5 Albatron TI4800se 310/643 3dmark 15,110 3DMark2001SE Link

06-06-2003, 09:50 PM	#20
Sproket Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 193	I will be selling my Dtek Brand new Rad for $25 with shroud, etc. Used dtek rad for 3 days. __________________ NF7-S Bios D1.8 218FSB X 11.5 1700+ DLT3C 0310 @ 2511Mhz TwinMos 2x256 PC3200 BH-5 Albatron TI4800se 310/643 3dmark 15,110 3DMark2001SE Link

06-06-2003, 09:57 PM	#21
JokerCPoC Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 130	Wow, That's some rad, Mine only has six loops, yours looks like It has ten loops in It. __________________ My Blog Joker1: 2-265 @ 2.25GHz cpus(OSA265FAA6CB)[H8DCE] soon Joker2: 1-165 @ 2.65GHz cpu[Bios/Clockgen405], MS-6702E v1.0(9.3 Bios) Joker3: 1-270 @ 2.40(2nd-270 cpu soon)GHz cpu[Ntune], K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker4: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker5: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) (10.10GHz now, 25.43GHz maybe? Crunchin 4 SetiBoinc for the PC Perspective Killer Frogs)

06-06-2003, 11:26 PM	#22
murray13 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Omaha, NE USA Posts: 216	For me when I bought my heater core it was a price/performance issue. It will be hard to beat what I found. The same heater core as a 2-302 (10 3/4 x 5 5/8 x 2). Anyone in America can get one of these for $19.99+local taxes at your local NAPA dealer. The NAPA part number is 4603056. If they give you a price higher than this tell them that is what is online at their site. (Check it first www.napaonline.com) I don't think a Serck or similar going for $48+$12 shipping is going to out perform the one above enough to warrant spending 3 times the money. I could just go get a second one and still have money left over. I have since moved on to using a water chiller (from ebay) that went for less than what some one spent on that serck type rad.

06-06-2003, 11:44 PM	#23
JokerCPoC Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 130	Well maybe I can't beat the price, My MaxXxpert cost Me $30.00, Shipping was Free though. __________________ My Blog Joker1: 2-265 @ 2.25GHz cpus(OSA265FAA6CB)[H8DCE] soon Joker2: 1-165 @ 2.65GHz cpu[Bios/Clockgen405], MS-6702E v1.0(9.3 Bios) Joker3: 1-270 @ 2.40(2nd-270 cpu soon)GHz cpu[Ntune], K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker4: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker5: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) (10.10GHz now, 25.43GHz maybe? Crunchin 4 SetiBoinc for the PC Perspective Killer Frogs)

06-07-2003, 12:20 AM	#24
Sproket Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 193	Zoom314 How does your Maxxpert perform? What are your temps? Thanks __________________ NF7-S Bios D1.8 218FSB X 11.5 1700+ DLT3C 0310 @ 2511Mhz TwinMos 2x256 PC3200 BH-5 Albatron TI4800se 310/643 3dmark 15,110 3DMark2001SE Link

06-07-2003, 01:15 AM	#25
JokerCPoC Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 130	I didn't mean to imply that I had a working water cooling setup yet, I'm still 2 water blocks and a 12v pump away from that point yet. __________________ My Blog Joker1: 2-265 @ 2.25GHz cpus(OSA265FAA6CB)[H8DCE] soon Joker2: 1-165 @ 2.65GHz cpu[Bios/Clockgen405], MS-6702E v1.0(9.3 Bios) Joker3: 1-270 @ 2.40(2nd-270 cpu soon)GHz cpu[Ntune], K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker4: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) Joker5: 2-285 @ 3.25? GHz cpu[Ntune], (soon) K8N-DL v1.03(1007 Bios) (10.10GHz now, 25.43GHz maybe? Crunchin 4 SetiBoinc for the PC Perspective Killer Frogs)

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