Storm Extreme pump solution

Surrept · 08-13-2005, 07:44 AM

Hello and appologies in advance for my extremely noob post.

I have just purchased a Swiftech storm and Maze4 to use with my external water bong cooling setup. I won't go into details but i'm at the very end of my wits and want to be done with it all. I was hopeing I could get some advice to go with the high price tag of my extreme even though I saw exactly where that money went after cleaning out the insides. Again sorry for the uninformed questions but I can't sort through threads and make a decision for myself. Price is a concern and space is a semi concern, fool proof and trouble free are highest on the list

Dave · 08-13-2005, 09:21 AM

Its not a noob question, even I as a factory rep had some misunderstanding about Storm block.

Cather can answer better, but I would suggest one of our MAG pumps if space is an issue, or a D5 from Swiftech or Danger Den if you have room, if you want DC.

If AC, can't loose with a Ehiem, believe Cather is suggesting a 1250 model.

pHaestus · 08-13-2005, 09:38 AM

The Cooltechnica AquaXtreme 50z (was the Swiftech MCP600) is also a pretty good match with the Storm block. I have used that pump with my Storm G5 and a BIPro3 (1pass) for a few months. I recently replaced the AquaXtreme with a Laing D4, but it was for overvolting (the older D4s excel at that) and not due to some deficiency of the AquaXtreme.

Brians256 · 08-13-2005, 09:45 AM

The two best rated pumps out there (in the affordable range) are the MCP350/DDC (names from Swiftech and Dangerden respectively) and the MCP655/D5 (same companies).

Dave from C-Systems sells their Mag pump which is reputed to be very quiet and small. It is not a high flow pump, though, and falls below the MCP350/DDC in performance. It is much cheaper though.

MCP350/DDC - quiet. small. SHOULD be reliable, but I think there was an early batch that was problematic. Spendy.

MCP655/D5 - sorta quiet. You can set the pump speed with a 5-way switch built into the pump for the speed/noise tradeoff you want in your system. Can be very good performer at the expense of some noise, although not a lot of noise like a dishwasher. Even at top speed, it's not a huge amount of noise.

Cathar · 08-13-2005, 09:45 AM

Yep, I'd say Laing D5 if using a bong. Its good pressure head will help with the height needed for the bong waterfall.

Remember to use some decent in-line water-strainer filters though if you've got a bong cooler with the storm block. All those little jets will clog up with lint fairly quickly due to the water atrracting dust from the air otherwise.

Brians256 · 08-13-2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brians256

The two best rated pumps out there (in the affordable range) are the MCP350/DDC (names from Swiftech and Dangerden respectively) and the MCP655/D5 (same companies).

Dave from C-Systems sells their Mag pump which is reputed to be very quiet and small. It is not a high flow pump, though, and falls below the MCP350/DDC in performance. It is much cheaper though.

MCP350/DDC - quiet. small. SHOULD be reliable, but I think there was an early batch that was problematic. Spendy.

MCP655/D5 - sorta quiet. You can set the pump speed with a 5-way switch built into the pump for the speed/noise tradeoff you want in your system. Can be very good performer at the expense of some noise, although not a lot of noise like a dishwasher. Even at top speed, it's not a huge amount of noise.

I wanted to say why I said two, instead of three for the best number of pumps. I haven't actually seen the C-Systems pump in person, and I've only seen one review of it (goto their site http://www.c-systems.ca and look at the link to the review by robotech of their older pump and then read the review of the updated mag pump by Robotech). Robotech does a great review. I didn't get the impression that robotech was blown away by the pump, but he certainly didn't dismiss it. I think he was looking for a higher-flow and higher-pressure pump. IF you don't need that... this may be the pump for you.

Brians256 · 08-13-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Yep, I'd say Laing D5 if using a bong. Its good pressure head will help with the height needed for the bong waterfall.

Remember to use some decent in-line water-strainer filters though if you've got a bong cooler with the storm block. All those little jets will clog up with lint fairly quickly due to the water atrracting dust from the air otherwise.

Good point. I never connected the dots. With a bong cooling system, you'll need the head from a D5 type pump to get the best out of your system. With the latest update, you'll still be able to throttle down the pump if you want, but a bong system isn't meant to be silent anyways.

Surrept · 08-13-2005, 01:07 PM

Thanks for the replies so quick. My plan was to loose the waterbong all together due to issues of dirty water and problems with half the system being external, the pump I have now would work just fine for a water bong, it's a little giant which is like an iwaki. I think it would fit in my case but i'm not to sure about putting that large of a pump in a case. A radiator and res will be added as well, I'll do some looking around of the mentioned pumps.

Amazing job on the block cathar, unbelieveable attention to design and manufactureing detail!

RoboTech · 08-14-2005, 01:55 PM

Yes, IMHO the MCP655 is a very good match for the Storm...

The following table is from the Swiftech MCP655 12 VDC Pump review at SC.c

For this test I am using an open, constant level reservoir > Pump > 6x6x2 heatercore > Storm WB > 5 gal graduated bottle (4' of 1/2" ID silicone tubing).

The small MCP350 (DDC) beats out the much larger E-1250 due to higher head pressure. I did not test the CSP-MAG but I would expect it to fall below the E-1250.

Dave · 08-15-2005, 06:34 AM

I think you should read Cathar other threads on Storm, a CSP-MAG will be within 1Deg C of other pumps.

It comes down to what he can fit, and how much he wants to spend.

As indicated, I believe the Storm required high flow / pressure, and have been recommending two MAG's in series for people that have emailed us direct.

Cathar has corrected this mis-understanding, and now I only suggest a second MAG if they really want that extra 1Deg C

I still do not have a Storm, and can not confirm directly the performance gained with higher head.

Wang · 08-17-2005, 05:21 PM

Hi Robo, Props for the great pump reviews!
I have a request: could you put the modded MCP350 in your storm loop?
I would really like to know how well it performs, for my future upgrade.

TIA
Wang

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTech

Yes, IMHO the MCP655 is a very good match for the Storm...

The following table is from the Swiftech MCP655 12 VDC Pump review at SC.c

For this test I am using an open, constant level reservoir > Pump > 6x6x2 heatercore > Storm WB > 5 gal graduated bottle (4' of 1/2" ID silicone tubing).

The small MCP350 (DDC) beats out the much larger E-1250 due to higher head pressure. I did not test the CSP-MAG but I would expect it to fall below the E-1250.

Anonymous · 08-18-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wang

Hi Robo, Props for the great pump reviews!
I have a request: could you put the modded MCP350 in your storm loop?
I would really like to know how well it performs, for my future upgrade.

In case Robotech doesn't have the time:
The MCP350 data is actually from Swiftech's site, but used Robotech's data for the point of intersect, which is why the corner is slightly to the right of the curve.

Voodoo Rufus · 08-18-2005, 12:58 PM

It's nice to see all the pump and test data resulting from the SystemCooling review. Good for everyone and for completeness.

RoboTech · 08-18-2005, 05:29 PM

OK, here is the revised table that now includes my modified MCP350 pump, the CSP-MAG, and Iwaki MD-15R...

Same setup as before: Res > Pump > 6x6x2 Radiator > Storm > 5 gal graduated bottle.

Edit: Added Iwaki MD-15R

RoboTech · 08-19-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

In case Robotech doesn't have the time:
The MCP350 data is actually from Swiftech's site, but used Robotech's data for the point of intersect, which is why the corner is slightly to the right of the curve.

I'm not clear on how the "Best fit quadratic" and "Robotech test loop data" curves were derived or what they are showing in the graph you posted - could you elaborate? Thanks...

Roscal · 08-19-2005, 01:44 PM

It's the global pressure drop of the whole system. Only put the flowrate values on pump curves...

RoboTech · 08-19-2005, 01:45 PM

Since the title of this thread is "Storm Extreme pump solution" here is one more pump to consider...

Iwaki MD-15R => 98.4 GPH

Same Storm test loop as before...

kimandsally · 08-19-2005, 02:19 PM

In all the tests above using the MCP 350 was the 3/8" fittings and tube used also the 3/8" barbs on the Storm G4 as that is what I am using at the moment and I'm looking to see if it is worth me going to 1/2" what is the likely improvement by going to 1/2"?

And then this is a noob question, the reservior I'm using is the Tank-O-Matic External Reservoir, the fittings are about 3/8" so if I were to mod the pump leaving the output @3/8" and the inlet to 1/2" wouldn't that make a flow restriction?

What I don't understand is why are the reserviors made with such small bore's? am I missing something?

Anonymous · 08-19-2005, 06:26 PM

(What Roscal said)
"Best fit quadratic" in previous graph was derived using least squares method with a quadratic function in Matlab to predict the total resistance curve of your test loop.

Included MD15R and modded MCP350 data points:
Norm of residuals = .9353
Max residual = ~.55 ft H20 (CSP Mag)

(Sorry for OT)

RoboTech · 08-19-2005, 07:55 PM

Anonymous,

Excellent - now I understand (I missed seeing all the intersect points the first time)...

Thanks for taking the time to explain!

RoboTech · 08-19-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimandsally

In all the tests above using the MCP 350 was the 3/8" fittings and tube used also the 3/8" barbs on the Storm G4 as that is what I am using at the moment and I'm looking to see if it is worth me going to 1/2" what is the likely improvement by going to 1/2"?

And then this is a noob question, the reservior I'm using is the Tank-O-Matic External Reservoir, the fittings are about 3/8" so if I were to mod the pump leaving the output @3/8" and the inlet to 1/2" wouldn't that make a flow restriction?

What I don't understand is why are the reserviors made with such small bore's? am I missing something?

No, both the MCP350 tests were conducted with the same 1/2" ID tubing used in all the others. For the MCP350 and MCP350 Modified, I used a 2" long pice of 3/8" ID tube to a 3/8-to-1/2 adapter right out of the pump discharge.

Theoretically opening up the suction port to 1/2" will let the pump "breathe" a little better, but if that is the only change you make to your existing system I couldn't say how much of an affect it would have. Yes, the 3/8" outlet is still a "restriction" but it does not have as much affect being on the discharge.

My guess - many reservoirs are made with relatively small fittings due to the curvature of the reservoir wall and for ease of manufacture.

kimandsally · 08-20-2005, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTech

No, both the MCP350 tests were conducted with the same 1/2" ID tubing used in all the others. For the MCP350 and MCP350 Modified, I used a 2" long pice of 3/8" ID tube to a 3/8-to-1/2 adapter right out of the pump discharge.

Theoretically opening up the suction port to 1/2" will let the pump "breathe" a little better, but if that is the only change you make to your existing system I couldn't say how much of an affect it would have. Yes, the 3/8" outlet is still a "restriction" but it does not have as much affect being on the discharge.

My guess - many reservoirs are made with relatively small fittings due to the curvature of the reservoir wall and for ease of manufacture.

Thanks for the quick reply, I'm confused that the diameters can go up and down so much with out a large inpact on performance.

You will probably gather that I am new to watercooling which is partially true I had a Zalman Resorater for a year the decided to go for a better set up hence where I am now.

I suppose I could run bench tests but I am limited with space and I do not have any other parts I was going to buy 1/2" piping and fittings if you thought I would gain more from doing so.

Thanks again.

Wang · 08-29-2005, 03:31 PM

Big thanks go out to Anonymous for the graph! and Robotech for his efforts to edumacate us with his updated Storm/pump loop!!
Oh and to Laing.. for the modable sweetness that is the DDC.

Big thanks,
Wang.

08-13-2005, 07:44 AM	#1
Surrept Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: US Posts: 2	Storm Extreme pump solution Hello and appologies in advance for my extremely noob post. I have just purchased a Swiftech storm and Maze4 to use with my external water bong cooling setup. I won't go into details but i'm at the very end of my wits and want to be done with it all. I was hopeing I could get some advice to go with the high price tag of my extreme even though I saw exactly where that money went after cleaning out the insides. Again sorry for the uninformed questions but I can't sort through threads and make a decision for myself. Price is a concern and space is a semi concern, fool proof and trouble free are highest on the list

08-13-2005, 09:38 AM	#3
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The Cooltechnica AquaXtreme 50z (was the Swiftech MCP600) is also a pretty good match with the Storm block. I have used that pump with my Storm G5 and a BIPro3 (1pass) for a few months. I recently replaced the AquaXtreme with a Laing D4, but it was for overvolting (the older D4s excel at that) and not due to some deficiency of the AquaXtreme. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-18-2005, 05:29 PM	#14
RoboTech Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 229	OK, here is the revised table that now includes my modified MCP350 pump, the CSP-MAG, and Iwaki MD-15R... Same setup as before: Res > Pump > 6x6x2 Radiator > Storm > 5 gal graduated bottle. Edit: Added Iwaki MD-15R Last edited by RoboTech; 08-19-2005 at 01:55 PM.

08-13-2005, 09:21 AM	#2
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	Its not a noob question, even I as a factory rep had some misunderstanding about Storm block. Cather can answer better, but I would suggest one of our MAG pumps if space is an issue, or a D5 from Swiftech or Danger Den if you have room, if you want DC. If AC, can't loose with a Ehiem, believe Cather is suggesting a 1250 model.

08-13-2005, 09:45 AM	#4
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	The two best rated pumps out there (in the affordable range) are the MCP350/DDC (names from Swiftech and Dangerden respectively) and the MCP655/D5 (same companies). Dave from C-Systems sells their Mag pump which is reputed to be very quiet and small. It is not a high flow pump, though, and falls below the MCP350/DDC in performance. It is much cheaper though. MCP350/DDC - quiet. small. SHOULD be reliable, but I think there was an early batch that was problematic. Spendy. MCP655/D5 - sorta quiet. You can set the pump speed with a 5-way switch built into the pump for the speed/noise tradeoff you want in your system. Can be very good performer at the expense of some noise, although not a lot of noise like a dishwasher. Even at top speed, it's not a huge amount of noise.

08-13-2005, 09:45 AM	#5
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Yep, I'd say Laing D5 if using a bong. Its good pressure head will help with the height needed for the bong waterfall. Remember to use some decent in-line water-strainer filters though if you've got a bong cooler with the storm block. All those little jets will clog up with lint fairly quickly due to the water atrracting dust from the air otherwise.

08-13-2005, 01:07 PM	#8
Surrept Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: US Posts: 2	Thanks for the replies so quick. My plan was to loose the waterbong all together due to issues of dirty water and problems with half the system being external, the pump I have now would work just fine for a water bong, it's a little giant which is like an iwaki. I think it would fit in my case but i'm not to sure about putting that large of a pump in a case. A radiator and res will be added as well, I'll do some looking around of the mentioned pumps. Amazing job on the block cathar, unbelieveable attention to design and manufactureing detail!

08-14-2005, 01:55 PM	#9
RoboTech Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 229	Yes, IMHO the MCP655 is a very good match for the Storm... The following table is from the Swiftech MCP655 12 VDC Pump review at SC.c For this test I am using an open, constant level reservoir > Pump > 6x6x2 heatercore > Storm WB > 5 gal graduated bottle (4' of 1/2" ID silicone tubing). The small MCP350 (DDC) beats out the much larger E-1250 due to higher head pressure. I did not test the CSP-MAG but I would expect it to fall below the E-1250.

08-15-2005, 06:34 AM	#10
Dave Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 260	I think you should read Cathar other threads on Storm, a CSP-MAG will be within 1Deg C of other pumps. It comes down to what he can fit, and how much he wants to spend. As indicated, I believe the Storm required high flow / pressure, and have been recommending two MAG's in series for people that have emailed us direct. Cathar has corrected this mis-understanding, and now I only suggest a second MAG if they really want that extra 1Deg C I still do not have a Storm, and can not confirm directly the performance gained with higher head.

08-18-2005, 12:58 PM	#13
Voodoo Rufus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollister, CA Posts: 44	It's nice to see all the pump and test data resulting from the SystemCooling review. Good for everyone and for completeness.

08-19-2005, 01:44 PM	#16
Roscal Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: North of France Posts: 198	It's the global pressure drop of the whole system. Only put the flowrate values on pump curves...

08-19-2005, 01:45 PM	#17
RoboTech Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 229	Since the title of this thread is "Storm Extreme pump solution" here is one more pump to consider... Iwaki MD-15R => 98.4 GPH Same Storm test loop as before...

08-19-2005, 02:19 PM	#18
kimandsally Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 6	In all the tests above using the MCP 350 was the 3/8" fittings and tube used also the 3/8" barbs on the Storm G4 as that is what I am using at the moment and I'm looking to see if it is worth me going to 1/2" what is the likely improvement by going to 1/2"? And then this is a noob question, the reservior I'm using is the Tank-O-Matic External Reservoir, the fittings are about 3/8" so if I were to mod the pump leaving the output @3/8" and the inlet to 1/2" wouldn't that make a flow restriction? What I don't understand is why are the reserviors made with such small bore's? am I missing something?

08-19-2005, 07:55 PM	#20
RoboTech Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 229	Anonymous, Excellent - now I understand (I missed seeing all the intersect points the first time)... Thanks for taking the time to explain!

08-29-2005, 03:31 PM	#23
Wang Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ottawa,ON Posts: 46	Big thanks go out to Anonymous for the graph! and Robotech for his efforts to edumacate us with his updated Storm/pump loop!! Oh and to Laing.. for the modable sweetness that is the DDC. Big thanks, Wang.

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