Watercooling Tubing

abrasiveone · 11-13-2005, 10:40 PM

I recently purchased a few feet of Tygon to replace some Clearflex 1/2id 3/4od I had. I accidentally ordered the thinner od tubing and it is really thin now.

Basically what is happening is my tubing going into the pump is flattening and limiting my water flow because of too much suction from the pump. The whole tube flattens a little but right at the pump intake it almost crimps closed. I have a feeling that if I replace that piece of tubing that the piece before will do the same thing.

What would be the best way to resolve the problem without replacing my tubing again? (I was thinking of a way to control the pump and turn it down a notch but that would still restrict my flow)

In my loop is a Danger Den DD12V-D4 Pump, a Danger Den Dual 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir, The Danger Den SLI Kit Solution using two (2) Acetal MAZE4GPU, a Copper TDX Block for Athlon64 754/939/940, and a Black Ice Xtreme Radiator.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

jaydee · 11-13-2005, 10:57 PM

The way they do it in cars is put a spring inside the hose. Not sure if putting it on the outside would work in this situation. Might try it.

billbartuska · 11-14-2005, 07:15 AM

[quote=abrasiveoneBasically what is happening is my tubing going into the pump is flattening and limiting my water flow because of too much suction from the pump. The whole tube flattens a little but right at the pump intake it almost crimps closed. I have a feeling that if I replace that piece of tubing that the piece before will do the same thing.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Coolsleves
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/coolsleeves.asp

bigben2k · 11-14-2005, 11:23 AM

Yep, that's the only option left to ...

Quote:

...resolve the problem without replacing my tubing again?

superart · 11-14-2005, 02:11 PM

Bill, those wont work, at elast inthe manner they are intended to be used.

He is not getting kinks because of bends, which those coils are designed to prevent. He is getting it because of the negative presure created by the pump. If those coils are strong, he can put them INSIDE the tube, and they would act as a brace. I think this is what jaydee was suggesting.

Prlwytkovsky · 11-14-2005, 02:20 PM

Had the same problem. I used coolsleeves with the thin Tygon 1/2 inch tubing. With a Eheim 1250 it worked fine, when I hooked up a Swiftech MCP350 it sucked the tube flat despite the coolsleeves. I bought thicker Tygon tubing, it seems to me a better solution than metal springs in the tubing. Too much flow resistance.

superart · 11-14-2005, 05:41 PM

Yea, it is a better solution, but he asked for a solution that didnt involve buying new tubes

jaydee · 11-14-2005, 07:09 PM

Well the tube fits OVER the barb so if you can find something with the same ID of the barb it shouldn't hurt flow any. You will want something that isn't going to rust or corrode. Maybe a copper wire twisted. I don't know. All I can think of.

EDIT: You might consider extending the barb with copper pipe for a few inches aswell.

billbartuska · 11-15-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superart

Bill, those wont work, at elast inthe manner they are intended to be used.

He is not getting kinks because of bends, which those coils are designed to prevent. He is getting it because of the negative presure created by the pump. If those coils are strong, he can put them INSIDE the tube, and they would act as a brace. I think this is what jaydee was suggesting.

It was just a suggestion...I thought there was a chance they would work if the pump suction wasn't too much. And I really don't like the idea of coils inside tubing. I had the same problem with an Iwaki sucking out of a res, almost flattened the tubing (1/2"X3/4" Tygon R3603) and significantly reduced flow. I solved the problem by mounting the punp and res barb to barb with about a 1/4" between the barbs.

zoson · 11-16-2005, 02:43 AM

Here's a simple solution. Get some acrylic based epoxy and goop up that portion of the tube making it rigid. While I'm not sure this would prevent a length of tube past the gooped portion from crimping, you could also say, goop some rings or make a sprial pattern every 'x' length of tube up until the next connector where you are no longer having issues.

superart · 11-16-2005, 01:12 PM

yea, thats a good idea zoson. kinda like a brace to keep the tube from imploding.

What kind of adhesive is good for tygon? Is it as resistive to epoxy and resin as silicone or rubber?

DaveMac · 11-18-2005, 06:29 AM

What about some plastic spiral cable wrap, used like a heavy duty version of coolsleeves.

Marci · 11-18-2005, 06:37 AM

Ultimately, replacing tubing is most suitable suggestion I'm afraid... and I'd heartily recommend Steel-reinforced tubing... which has a steel spring built within the sidewall (not on the interior or exterior...)

tis luverly and cheap... and rated for hi-vacuum applications... so won't collapse due to negative pressure...

http://store.over-clock.com/Tubing.html#a361

Available in 3/8" ID (shortly) or 1/2" ID.

Quote:

Temperature range: - 10°C + 60°C, + 14 F ÷ +140F.
Features:
* Pvc hose with a steel spiral reinforcement.
* Inside and outside smooth.
* Very flexible, resistant to atmospherical agents and most chemicals.

Applications:

* Particularly indicated for suction and delivery of liquids.
* Suitable for suction and delivery of alimentary liquids
* Meets the European directive 90/128/CEE class A, B and C

S'slowly becoming a best-seller for us... less faff than cool-sleeves... and cheaper than tubing + coolsleeves.

Prlwytkovsky · 11-18-2005, 01:44 PM

Maybe you could put a reservoir before the input of the pump. Having the reservoir open to the air will eliminate the negative pressure on the tubes. The pump will now "push" the water through the tubes (relative to the pressure around the tubes).

billbartuska · 11-18-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prlwytkovsky

Maybe you could put a reservoir before the input of the pump. Having the reservoir open to the air will eliminate the negative pressure on the tubes. The pump will now "push" the water through the tubes (relative to the pressure around the tubes).

Oh my!
I don't think that would work. Tthe pump would suck air.

Prlwytkovsky · 11-19-2005, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billbartuska

Oh my!
I don't think that would work. Tthe pump would suck air.

I wouldn't. As long as the water level is still above the inlet of the pump there is no problem. The system doesn't need to be closed completely, one point can be on atmospheric pressure. So choose that point as close to the pump as possible -> atmospheric pressure will be lower everywhere in the loop.

FL3JM · 11-19-2005, 10:09 AM

Wont the waterflow suffer from having an open loop? If its closed the pump "helps itself"as the water will be pushed into the pump, and if its open it wont. Am i right? O_o
Perhaps there there isnt much of a diffrence tho, the height diffrence is eliminated because it is a loop after all.

bobo5195 · 11-19-2005, 12:19 PM

it being open wont make a difference, a res will however

Prlwytkovsky · 11-21-2005, 09:57 AM

A reservoir on itself doesn't do anything, to eliminate the negative pressure difference between the pump input and atmospheric pressure there needs to be an opening from the input of the pump to the atmosphere. There wont flow any air or water because of that opening, it just equalizes the pressures. Look at it as an electric circuit. The pump is the battery, the pressure it generates the voltage and the waterflow is the electric current. The pump forms a circuit with the watercooling blocks, the battery forms a circuit with equivalent resistors. the resistance determines how much flow / current you get given the pressure / voltage. You can ground the electrical circuit at any point. The part of the circuit you ground has the same voltage level (pressure) as the ground but all the voltage differences / pressure differences along the circuit are unchanged. You will have the same current / flow as before. So you can simply put the pump input at atmospheric pressure without changing anything in flow. Since the input of the pump is the lowest pressure point in the loop all the other points in the loop will have positive pressure relative to the atmosphere. So non of your tubes will be sucked flat by the pump.

If you had a small hole somewhere in your loop ( a single one) you might not have noticed since the pressure will quiqly equalize with the atmosphere and you'll get no flow of water out of this. When you open up your reservoir before the pump suddenly all other pressures in your loop will become positive and that small hole will start leaking big time.

Instead of a reservoir you can put in a T line before the pump. Just have the loose leg stick above the rest of your circuit and you'll have a low negative pressure before your pump again.

So the whole circuit can have one open spot to the atmosphere. It won't affect the performance of you loop in any way.

11-13-2005, 10:40 PM	#1
abrasiveone Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 8	Watercooling Tubing I recently purchased a few feet of Tygon to replace some Clearflex 1/2id 3/4od I had. I accidentally ordered the thinner od tubing and it is really thin now. Basically what is happening is my tubing going into the pump is flattening and limiting my water flow because of too much suction from the pump. The whole tube flattens a little but right at the pump intake it almost crimps closed. I have a feeling that if I replace that piece of tubing that the piece before will do the same thing. What would be the best way to resolve the problem without replacing my tubing again? (I was thinking of a way to control the pump and turn it down a notch but that would still restrict my flow) In my loop is a Danger Den DD12V-D4 Pump, a Danger Den Dual 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir, The Danger Den SLI Kit Solution using two (2) Acetal MAZE4GPU, a Copper TDX Block for Athlon64 754/939/940, and a Black Ice Xtreme Radiator. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. __________________ DFI LanParty NF4 SLI-DR (BIOS 623-3) Athlon64 3500+ Winchester 4x512MB PC3200 OCZ EL Plat Rev 2 200GB Seagate Barracuda SATA 150 hdd 250GB Seagate Barracuda SATA 150 hdd NEC 3520A DVD-RW 2 BFG GeForce 6800GT O/C SLI PC P&C Turbo-Cool 510 SLI Audigy II ZS sound card Windows XP Pro SP 2 Danger Den W/C setup on CPU and Video. Last edited by abrasiveone; 11-13-2005 at 11:24 PM.

11-14-2005, 07:15 AM	#3
billbartuska Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Skokie, Illinois Posts: 322	[quote=abrasiveoneBasically what is happening is my tubing going into the pump is flattening and limiting my water flow because of too much suction from the pump. The whole tube flattens a little but right at the pump intake it almost crimps closed. I have a feeling that if I replace that piece of tubing that the piece before will do the same thing. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Coolsleves http://www.swiftnets.com/products/coolsleeves.asp __________________ My new rig.... Intel SE440BX-3, PIII 550 (@ 680) MX440 275/332 (@ 350/400) and 3DFX Voodo 5 5500 160/160 (@180/180) Two Opticals and 120 gigs (w/28gigs in RAID0) on 4 Maxstors

11-14-2005, 02:11 PM	#5
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	Bill, those wont work, at elast inthe manner they are intended to be used. He is not getting kinks because of bends, which those coils are designed to prevent. He is getting it because of the negative presure created by the pump. If those coils are strong, he can put them INSIDE the tube, and they would act as a brace. I think this is what jaydee was suggesting. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-14-2005, 05:41 PM	#7
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	Yea, it is a better solution, but he asked for a solution that didnt involve buying new tubes __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-16-2005, 02:43 AM	#10
zoson Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: X Posts: 204	Here's a simple solution. Get some acrylic based epoxy and goop up that portion of the tube making it rigid. While I'm not sure this would prevent a length of tube past the gooped portion from crimping, you could also say, goop some rings or make a sprial pattern every 'x' length of tube up until the next connector where you are no longer having issues. __________________ Core i7 930 @ 4254Hz 22x193 \| ASUS R3E 901 BIOS \| 12GB Mushkin Blackline 3x4GB @ 1547MHz 7-8-7-24-1N \| Lian Li PC-A10B 2x EVGA GTX275 SLI @ 720/1266/1566 \| 2x 80GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD Raid 0 \| 3x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint 7.2K Raid 5 \| Corsair 950TX H2O \| Enzotech Sapphire Rev.A \| EK-FB RE3 \| Swiftech - 2x MCW60/GTX275 Unisink, MCP655b, MCRes Micro.v2 \| 3x HWLabs SR1-120 あなたの神への弓 Time isn't wasted, when you're gettin' wasted.

11-13-2005, 10:57 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	The way they do it in cars is put a spring inside the hose. Not sure if putting it on the outside would work in this situation. Might try it.

11-14-2005, 02:20 PM	#6
Prlwytkovsky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 28	Had the same problem. I used coolsleeves with the thin Tygon 1/2 inch tubing. With a Eheim 1250 it worked fine, when I hooked up a Swiftech MCP350 it sucked the tube flat despite the coolsleeves. I bought thicker Tygon tubing, it seems to me a better solution than metal springs in the tubing. Too much flow resistance.

11-14-2005, 07:09 PM	#8
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Well the tube fits OVER the barb so if you can find something with the same ID of the barb it shouldn't hurt flow any. You will want something that isn't going to rust or corrode. Maybe a copper wire twisted. I don't know. All I can think of. EDIT: You might consider extending the barb with copper pipe for a few inches aswell.

11-16-2005, 01:12 PM	#11
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	yea, thats a good idea zoson. kinda like a brace to keep the tube from imploding. What kind of adhesive is good for tygon? Is it as resistive to epoxy and resin as silicone or rubber? __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-18-2005, 06:29 AM	#12
DaveMac Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3	What about some plastic spiral cable wrap, used like a heavy duty version of coolsleeves.

11-18-2005, 01:44 PM	#14
Prlwytkovsky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 28	Maybe you could put a reservoir before the input of the pump. Having the reservoir open to the air will eliminate the negative pressure on the tubes. The pump will now "push" the water through the tubes (relative to the pressure around the tubes).

11-19-2005, 10:09 AM	#17
FL3JM Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 66	Wont the waterflow suffer from having an open loop? If its closed the pump "helps itself"as the water will be pushed into the pump, and if its open it wont. Am i right? O_o Perhaps there there isnt much of a diffrence tho, the height diffrence is eliminated because it is a loop after all.

11-19-2005, 12:19 PM	#18
bobo5195 Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: uk Posts: 400	it being open wont make a difference, a res will however

11-21-2005, 09:57 AM	#19
Prlwytkovsky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 28	A reservoir on itself doesn't do anything, to eliminate the negative pressure difference between the pump input and atmospheric pressure there needs to be an opening from the input of the pump to the atmosphere. There wont flow any air or water because of that opening, it just equalizes the pressures. Look at it as an electric circuit. The pump is the battery, the pressure it generates the voltage and the waterflow is the electric current. The pump forms a circuit with the watercooling blocks, the battery forms a circuit with equivalent resistors. the resistance determines how much flow / current you get given the pressure / voltage. You can ground the electrical circuit at any point. The part of the circuit you ground has the same voltage level (pressure) as the ground but all the voltage differences / pressure differences along the circuit are unchanged. You will have the same current / flow as before. So you can simply put the pump input at atmospheric pressure without changing anything in flow. Since the input of the pump is the lowest pressure point in the loop all the other points in the loop will have positive pressure relative to the atmosphere. So non of your tubes will be sucked flat by the pump. If you had a small hole somewhere in your loop ( a single one) you might not have noticed since the pressure will quiqly equalize with the atmosphere and you'll get no flow of water out of this. When you open up your reservoir before the pump suddenly all other pressures in your loop will become positive and that small hole will start leaking big time. Instead of a reservoir you can put in a T line before the pump. Just have the loose leg stick above the rest of your circuit and you'll have a low negative pressure before your pump again. So the whole circuit can have one open spot to the atmosphere. It won't affect the performance of you loop in any way.

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