Watercooling present and future status...

Eddy_EK · 10-24-2005, 04:35 PM

Hi guys!

I am doing some research abput watercooling and was wondering if you know or can estimate how much % of computers are watercooled in general in your country area. Please write your country area.

I also would like your most realistic (as you can) opinion on future of watercooling.
The expanding possibility of watercooling in future.
The possibility of box watercooling sold with processors

The possibility of watercooling in bigger companies

And other notes regarding on watercooling.

Thanks!

bobo5195 · 10-24-2005, 04:46 PM

To what kind of level and for whom overall?

BillA · 10-24-2005, 05:57 PM

mktg plan, venture capitalists

Lord Twilight · 10-24-2005, 09:25 PM

I used to have WC, and probably will again on my next computer.. Now that there's a lot more WC hardware.. not so much DIY stuff to fight with

jaydee · 10-24-2005, 10:53 PM

Hard to say at this point. Looking at the CPU road maps for the next several years water cooling still has no place in the main stream.

Etacovda · 10-25-2005, 04:25 AM

even if it does, boutique makers wont be the main contributors once it goes mainstream.

CNC has no place in mass production, aside from making dies/moulds.

Eddy_EK · 10-25-2005, 06:29 AM

I was wondering...

Most of you knows many people with PC...
How many of them have WC in %.
How many of them will get WC, on your opinion.
What do you think of WC the servers with 20 and more CPUs?

PS: I am talking about decent WC, not like TT aquarious

Marci · 10-25-2005, 07:44 AM

How many with W/C - about 40%
How many will get it - 0%
WC Servers - won't catch on. Too high risk. Too high maintenance (comparatively speaking to current solutions). Too expensive (comparatively speaking to current solutions). Too much space consumed (by the rad/s required)

Ruiner · 10-25-2005, 07:53 AM

The thermals on the K8's are so good they hardly need watercooling, and the extra hassle may buy you what, 100-200 extra MHz when OCing over *good* aircooling?

The games we play nowadays either just plain suck, or are mostly GPU limited. The graphic card companies wised up and started laser cutting pipelines rather than just downclocking cheaper cards.

Those shmancy heatpipes are pretty quiet too.

Water cooling is a fun hobby at least.

It's 'nice' to see low numbers in that MBM box down on the task bar, but who cares? Does any hobbyist really use a cpu for more than a year or two anyway?

BillA · 10-25-2005, 08:32 AM

EE
you won't get good 'data' here, a lopsided audience of 100% geeks and DIYers
think small and you will be close

Brians256 · 10-25-2005, 12:03 PM

Very true. Getting marketing data here is like Democrats trying to figure out how to be mainstream by asking San Franscisco gay activists or the Republicans asking how to be more mainstream by asking white supremacists in northern Idaho.

BillA · 10-25-2005, 12:10 PM

or Baptists

Ruiner · 10-25-2005, 01:08 PM

Oh yeah, marketing. Just chrome it, put LEDs in it and laser etch some ex-treeeem designs on it. Mix copper and aluminum....the free ions help your overclocks! Really!

Eddy_EK · 10-25-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

EE
you won't get good 'data' here, a lopsided audience of 100% geeks and DIYers
think small and you will be close

I must say I was hoping for guys like you would comment that!
I see from the others comments, and from others forums it was like we say in our language " a kick in the dark!

Anyway, I appreciate all comments/posts!

BGP Spook · 10-25-2005, 03:27 PM

My CPU used to get too bloody hot, and my room didn't help during the summer either.

I suspect the place I ordered my CPU from cheated me out of a HSF rated for my CPU. (They were shoddy in other ways and have since gone out of business.)

So I am in the minority because a big reason for my move to water was to keep my little XP 2600+ cool during the height of summer heat.

Admitedly, I suspect a good air cooler would have fixed my problems, but that wasn't good enough for me.

superart · 10-31-2005, 07:00 PM

What do you mean by "larger companies"?

IBM and other supercoputer companies have been making mainframes with watercooling for years.

Eddy_EK · 10-31-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superart

What do you mean by "larger companies"?

IBM and other supercoputer companies have been making mainframes with watercooling for years.

I ment companies which are using computers. 30+
Will they be interessed in WCing...

jaydee · 10-31-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

I ment companies which are using computers. 30+
Will they be interessed in WCing...

Nope. They use bone stock comps that work just fine with stock air coolers. Why would they spend over $100 for a water cooling kit and deal with maintenance when a sufficient air cooler costs $5.00?

HAL-9000 · 11-01-2005, 12:19 PM

If watercooling were to ever go mainstream, I think it would be more along the lines of those slow/low flow microchannel systems that are currently being researched. The needs of OEM aren't performance, as much as being cheap and install-and-forget reliability, even during shipping. Big boxers won't go WC unless they have to....and right now they definitely do not have to.

superart · 11-01-2005, 10:14 PM

Apple has a G5 with watercooling

Breach · 11-01-2005, 11:30 PM

Seems like processor manufacturers are starting to reverse the trend of each generation getting hotter and hotter, putting mainstream liquid cooling outside the realm of being really needed by OEMs. My current 3000+ 64 runs much cooler than any older athlon Ive owned in the past, Intel is catching up to this trend a little too.

In ways if liquid cooling stays to the enthusiasts so much the better. Things that get too "everyone" lose thier fun to me usually

Angry_Steel · 11-02-2005, 02:30 AM

Im surely not any kind of expert on watercooling, hell Im still building my first watercooled computer but of course I have a couple of cents to throw in the pot.

Quote:

The expanding possibility of watercooling in future.

Expanding to what? If anything new materials for air cooled heatsinks, thermal pastes, etc coupled with processors that run cooler and more efficient will probably keep air cooling as the mainstream. There is just a small demand for watercooling IMHO, most people dont even know what temp their CPU is running at let alone care about it.

Quote:

The possibility of box watercooling sold with processors

Never. If you mean bundling a watercooling kit with the CPU by the manufacturer. I mean look first at the cost, then the nightmare of forgetting to include some part needed for installation, liability for damage to other components in the system when the thing leaks all over Joe Blow's new graphics card etc etc and so on. Its one thing to give it as an option, entirely different to have it as the norm.

Quote:

The possibility of watercooling in bigger companies

Bigger companies such as? Again, this is just an opinion, based purely on observation, speculation and common sense. First you have companies that produce watercooling for the "Masses", usually low quality, rough machined flashy blue and red galvanic reactors. T-Take comes to mind among many others. Then you have companies who make quality products but have to balance cost with demand. Joe Blow might not care that this is the best block on the market, designed with years of R&D and input from the community. I think its pretty much the same as what the Air-Cooling industry went/goes through. In the past few years IMHO there was only a couple of decent HS manufacturers, Swiftech and Thermalright, yet T-take was Im sure (guess) selling more than both of them put together, why? Mass produced, low quality, but flashy (ugly IMO)= money.

Sure...bigger companies might jump on the bandwagon, but you get what you pay for.

Quote:

And other notes regarding on watercooling.

Ill let you know when I actually have something running

Eddy_EK · 11-03-2005, 02:46 AM

Interesting reading Angry_Steel...

Anyway, I haven't got any comments, if any of You could estimate how many percent (%) of PC users have WCing in your country area...

bobo5195 · 11-03-2005, 06:42 AM

Apple's G5 was a hot beast that had to be wedged into a case. Watercooling is not ever going to move into the main stream.

Strictly speaking heatpipes are liquid cooling. There should not be much reason why a heatpipe based system cannot achieve WC results levels. Watercooling hs a number fo things up its sleave (jet impingment cooling, mounting the rad outside the case) but there is not reason why a bigger heatsink cannot overcome that. Especially if the higher BTX HS weight limit comes in.

jaydee · 11-03-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

Interesting reading Angry_Steel...

Anyway, I haven't got any comments, if any of You could estimate how many percent (%) of PC users have WCing in your country area...

In the USA I would guess .1% at most. Yes that is .1%.

View Poll Results: Do you have watercooling?
Yes!	82	83.67%
No, but will have soon, some day!	12	12.24%
No, I will never have WC!	2	2.04%
What is WC?	2	2.04%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

10-24-2005, 04:35 PM	#1
Eddy_EK Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 94	Watercooling present and future status... Hi guys! I am doing some research abput watercooling and was wondering if you know or can estimate how much % of computers are watercooled in general in your country area. Please write your country area. I also would like your most realistic (as you can) opinion on future of watercooling. The expanding possibility of watercooling in future. The possibility of box watercooling sold with processors The possibility of watercooling in bigger companies And other notes regarding on watercooling. Thanks! __________________ EK Water Blocks

10-24-2005, 09:25 PM	#4
Lord Twilight Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 47	I used to have WC, and probably will again on my next computer.. Now that there's a lot more WC hardware.. not so much DIY stuff to fight with __________________ I've come to suck the fun out of the night.

10-25-2005, 04:25 AM	#6
Etacovda Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dunedin NZ Posts: 735	even if it does, boutique makers wont be the main contributors once it goes mainstream. CNC has no place in mass production, aside from making dies/moulds. __________________ Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights.

10-25-2005, 06:29 AM	#7
Eddy_EK Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 94	I was wondering... Most of you knows many people with PC... How many of them have WC in %. How many of them will get WC, on your opinion. What do you think of WC the servers with 20 and more CPUs? PS: I am talking about decent WC, not like TT aquarious __________________ EK Water Blocks

10-24-2005, 04:46 PM	#2
bobo5195 Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: uk Posts: 400	To what kind of level and for whom overall?

10-24-2005, 05:57 PM	#3
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	mktg plan, venture capitalists

10-24-2005, 10:53 PM	#5
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Hard to say at this point. Looking at the CPU road maps for the next several years water cooling still has no place in the main stream.

10-25-2005, 07:44 AM	#8
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	How many with W/C - about 40% How many will get it - 0% WC Servers - won't catch on. Too high risk. Too high maintenance (comparatively speaking to current solutions). Too expensive (comparatively speaking to current solutions). Too much space consumed (by the rad/s required) __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

10-25-2005, 07:53 AM	#9
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	The thermals on the K8's are so good they hardly need watercooling, and the extra hassle may buy you what, 100-200 extra MHz when OCing over good aircooling? The games we play nowadays either just plain suck, or are mostly GPU limited. The graphic card companies wised up and started laser cutting pipelines rather than just downclocking cheaper cards. Those shmancy heatpipes are pretty quiet too. Water cooling is a fun hobby at least. It's 'nice' to see low numbers in that MBM box down on the task bar, but who cares? Does any hobbyist really use a cpu for more than a year or two anyway?

10-25-2005, 08:32 AM	#10
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	EE you won't get good 'data' here, a lopsided audience of 100% geeks and DIYers think small and you will be close

10-25-2005, 12:03 PM	#11
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Very true. Getting marketing data here is like Democrats trying to figure out how to be mainstream by asking San Franscisco gay activists or the Republicans asking how to be more mainstream by asking white supremacists in northern Idaho.

10-25-2005, 12:10 PM	#12
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	or Baptists

10-25-2005, 01:08 PM	#13
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	Oh yeah, marketing. Just chrome it, put LEDs in it and laser etch some ex-treeeem designs on it. Mix copper and aluminum....the free ions help your overclocks! Really!

10-25-2005, 03:27 PM	#15
BGP Spook Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 153	My CPU used to get too bloody hot, and my room didn't help during the summer either. I suspect the place I ordered my CPU from cheated me out of a HSF rated for my CPU. (They were shoddy in other ways and have since gone out of business.) So I am in the minority because a big reason for my move to water was to keep my little XP 2600+ cool during the height of summer heat. Admitedly, I suspect a good air cooler would have fixed my problems, but that wasn't good enough for me. __________________ I can't spell, but I am working on it.

10-31-2005, 07:00 PM	#16
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	What do you mean by "larger companies"? IBM and other supercoputer companies have been making mainframes with watercooling for years. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-01-2005, 12:19 PM	#19
HAL-9000 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 202	If watercooling were to ever go mainstream, I think it would be more along the lines of those slow/low flow microchannel systems that are currently being researched. The needs of OEM aren't performance, as much as being cheap and install-and-forget reliability, even during shipping. Big boxers won't go WC unless they have to....and right now they definitely do not have to.

11-01-2005, 10:14 PM	#20
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	Apple has a G5 with watercooling __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-01-2005, 11:30 PM	#21
Breach Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 93	Seems like processor manufacturers are starting to reverse the trend of each generation getting hotter and hotter, putting mainstream liquid cooling outside the realm of being really needed by OEMs. My current 3000+ 64 runs much cooler than any older athlon Ive owned in the past, Intel is catching up to this trend a little too. In ways if liquid cooling stays to the enthusiasts so much the better. Things that get too "everyone" lose thier fun to me usually

11-03-2005, 02:46 AM	#23
Eddy_EK Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 94	Interesting reading Angry_Steel... Anyway, I haven't got any comments, if any of You could estimate how many percent (%) of PC users have WCing in your country area... __________________ EK Water Blocks

11-03-2005, 06:42 AM	#24
bobo5195 Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: uk Posts: 400	Apple's G5 was a hot beast that had to be wedged into a case. Watercooling is not ever going to move into the main stream. Strictly speaking heatpipes are liquid cooling. There should not be much reason why a heatpipe based system cannot achieve WC results levels. Watercooling hs a number fo things up its sleave (jet impingment cooling, mounting the rad outside the case) but there is not reason why a bigger heatsink cannot overcome that. Especially if the higher BTX HS weight limit comes in.

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