Building a Stirling Engine Heat Pump, Anyone ?

Ace-One · 03-06-2003, 07:53 AM

I find the concept interesting, especially if it can be made as efficient at stated in Airspitirt's article (http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...ng_-_the_f.php).

I tought about building one myself, but I have no idea how to construct a piston tight enough to keep the cooling gas in place. Guess we're talking semi-high pressure Helium or Nitrogen here, right ?

Is anybody playing arround with this ?

gmat · 03-06-2003, 09:10 AM

I've seen various historic and scientific reports on stirling engines. What i heard was no-one made them anymore, due to lack of industry interest or funding, but all of sudden people all around seem to rediscover this *old* concept (what was it already, around 1830 ?).
IIRC Philips held the rights on stirling engines, but never pushed the research, and eventually stopped funding it altogether. At a time people tried stirling boat engines, and even car engines (GM tried it), and poof, nothing.
It would be thrilling to get a hold of one of those puppies, for silence afficionados it would be an ultimate solution !

As for building one yourself, good luck, it has been a challenge for engineers for 1 century and half already. The high pressures and tight tolerances require top-quality materials, or leaks / cracks will develop. No wonder those things are expensive as hell.
BTW they can work with just any gas, including "common" air.

Ace-One · 03-07-2003, 06:04 AM

Yeah, LOTS of links on the web.

http://www.keveney.com/Vstirling.html
http://www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/stirling.htm
http://www.sesusa.org/DrIz/index.html
http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~khirata/english/make.htm
http://www.stirlingengine.com/kamen/...en_patent.html

I haven't evn had time to read through all those, and there are plenty more, I'm sure.

Well, if you have some insights, post'em !

gmat · 03-07-2003, 09:23 AM

!!! The patent application (last link) is frightening. How did the patent office accept that crap ? They patented a century-and-half old technology...
Reading through the patent description (full of BS and long words meant to lose the intended readership, ie the patent office) i fail to find something new... Philips and GM did all that was possible about 50 years ago

(edit) i need money. Gotta patent the steam engine and reclaim money to nuclear powerplants (which rely on steam engine principles)

airspirit · 03-07-2003, 02:48 PM

There are design plans you can get on the internet. You need to manufacture them to pretty tight tolerances, though ... I hope you have a full fledged machine shop.

Honestly, I'd wait a year until fridges containing these things hit the market. It'll be a cinch to do it then.

g.l.amour · 03-07-2003, 03:19 PM

whoaah,

are u sure mainstream technology is only a year away airspirit? i don't know to much about the topic, but considering that the tech has been there for a couple of centuries makes me wonder why now it would break through all of a sudden.

BrianW · 03-07-2003, 07:32 PM

Concept to manufacturing is abig step and can take a long time depending on many factors inclusing but not limited to , manufacturing processes, materials technologies, demand and need.

I am not sure why it has taken so long to come to production.

Brian W

gmat · 03-10-2003, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianW

I am not sure why it has taken so long to come to production.

Brian W

Historically, lack of suitable materials and manufacturing process. The quality of steel needed for the cylinder, and the tight tolerances (not to mention seal materials) are all part of recent history.
During the 20th century, lack of interest from the industry, then intellectual property rights held by a company who was thinking about it as a "gadget", and hostility from piston engine manufacturers all held it back. Look at the Wankel engine (now held by Mazda), it's the same story.
A few companies opened its grave and brought it back to life, through energy production, very recently. Let's hope we'll see more cooling products based on it.

airspirit · 03-18-2003, 02:00 PM

The reason that it's been pounded on for the last couple of years is for refridgeration purposes in third world nations, where a portable unit powered by a solar cell/battery combo could be used off-grid. They are also being pushed in the EU because of tight controls of the gasses used in phase change fridges. Also, since they use less power, the greens are after this in force. It is expected that stirling powered fridges should be appearing on the market this fall according to certain stirling development companies and appliance manufacturers.

Check this out:

http://www.lge.com/about/news/news_r...ring=&seq=1700

This is using stirlings for http://www.sunpower.com

The technology is almost upon us. I am hoping to use this tech in a project next year ... may the appliance gods bless us all.

gmat · 03-18-2003, 04:05 PM

Yeah i've seen them on geothermal powerplants, as well.

surge · 03-20-2003, 04:46 PM

Hi all,

Closed cycle refrigerators using helium gas and a modified Stirling cycle (tradename Displex, and pioneered by Air Products) have been used for some time, and can get to temperatures as low as 6K (-267 deg C!!). There is a monster one (4.5 kW) that will dissipate 100W at -196 deg C (liquid nitrogen temp). Stick that on your CPU!! Kind of expensive though....

see

http://www.datacompscientific.com/Cryogenics/ARS3.PDF

airspirit · 03-20-2003, 05:07 PM

Expensive models have been around for years. What we're talking about is units that would be affordable for us hardware hacks to mess with.

surge · 03-20-2003, 05:14 PM

Fair point! I was just trying to show what was technologically possible. Maybe I should have kept the old Displex we had in the lab and not thrown it out a couple of years ago..!!

pilsn3r · 03-23-2003, 04:59 PM

sterling motors are in use...
http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/gotland.html
look at Propulsion:
Single-shaft, diesel-electric and Stirling Air Independent Propulsion

(edit): read the thread a bit to fast...

j813 · 04-07-2004, 01:55 AM

What's the update on this tech?
Airspirit I'd just like to know if you ever tried to make one of this system?

pelle76 · 04-07-2004, 02:12 AM

I saw a webshop a while ago that sold small sterling engine gadgets that run off the heat from a hand. You just needed to give it a push in the beginning and then it ran by iteslf as long as you had it in your palm.

Pilsn3r: It takes swedes to make something like that, right

WAJ_UK · 04-07-2004, 03:23 AM

I looked into it a bit a few months ago and the guys here http://www.globalcooling.nl/ seemed to be quite close to making affordable refrigeration units using the stirling cycle. I noticed that their website hadn't been updated since last September so I tried emailing them to find out what the progress was but I got no response. Which isn't really a good sign

Brians256 · 04-07-2004, 01:15 PM

I don't see any plans on the net that would help build a heat movement stirling engine. I see some plans that are for toy stirling engines driven by heat, though. I want plans for the equivalent of a heat pump capable of moving 200W of heat, of course!

pelle76 · 04-07-2004, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brians256

I don't see any plans on the net that would help build a heat movement stirling engine. I see some plans that are for toy stirling engines driven by heat, though. I want plans for the equivalent of a heat pump capable of moving 200W of heat, of course!

Its just a matter of size

Brians256 · 04-07-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelle76

Its just a matter of size

Really? How well do the tolerances scale up? What kind of clearance do you need between the cylinder walls and the pistons? What design would be best for moving that much heat? Do you stick with dry air or go to hydrogen for efficiency or helium for safety? What pressure do you need? How do you tune it? In particular, can I build one with repeated application of doughut bribes to the folks in our machine shop if I buy aluminum and stainless steel stock?

I've got lots of questions!

pelle76 · 04-13-2004, 04:41 PM

Found this guy who made his own sterling engine

Brians256 · 04-14-2004, 08:43 AM

I want plans for a cryocooler. It looks as if it might be difficult to fab, though.

JWFokker · 05-30-2004, 03:00 PM

Maybe someone should let Swiftech or some other PC cooling company and let them know there's quite a bit of interest in this. Though a relatively small company like Swiftech would probably charge $200 easily for a small engine, considering they charge $50+ for a machined block of copper.

amd 64 · 06-16-2004, 09:54 AM

i am planning to build a stirling engine but i'am looking for formules..
and materials, i don't now how big the cilinders must be, to cool down (circa) 200watt @ -160 -190. mayby you could help?

in that link:
http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...ng_-_the_f.php
says that you can buy a small stirling engine that uses 8-9 watt and cool down to 5 graden. where can i buy this

(i am not so good in englisch sorry

)

cristoff · 06-17-2004, 03:30 PM

more info
http://www.janis.com/p-stirling.html

03-06-2003, 07:53 AM	#1
Ace-One Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 3	Building a Stirling Engine Heat Pump, Anyone ? I find the concept interesting, especially if it can be made as efficient at stated in Airspitirt's article (http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...ng_-_the_f.php). I tought about building one myself, but I have no idea how to construct a piston tight enough to keep the cooling gas in place. Guess we're talking semi-high pressure Helium or Nitrogen here, right ? Is anybody playing arround with this ?

03-07-2003, 02:48 PM	#5
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	There are design plans you can get on the internet. You need to manufacture them to pretty tight tolerances, though ... I hope you have a full fledged machine shop. Honestly, I'd wait a year until fridges containing these things hit the market. It'll be a cinch to do it then. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

03-07-2003, 03:19 PM	#6
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	whoaah, are u sure mainstream technology is only a year away airspirit? i don't know to much about the topic, but considering that the tech has been there for a couple of centuries makes me wonder why now it would break through all of a sudden. __________________ yo soy un tiburón

03-07-2003, 07:32 PM	#7
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Concept to manufacturing is abig step and can take a long time depending on many factors inclusing but not limited to , manufacturing processes, materials technologies, demand and need. I am not sure why it has taken so long to come to production. Brian W __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

03-18-2003, 02:00 PM	#9
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	The reason that it's been pounded on for the last couple of years is for refridgeration purposes in third world nations, where a portable unit powered by a solar cell/battery combo could be used off-grid. They are also being pushed in the EU because of tight controls of the gasses used in phase change fridges. Also, since they use less power, the greens are after this in force. It is expected that stirling powered fridges should be appearing on the market this fall according to certain stirling development companies and appliance manufacturers. Check this out: http://www.lge.com/about/news/news_r...ring=&seq=1700 This is using stirlings for http://www.sunpower.com The technology is almost upon us. I am hoping to use this tech in a project next year ... may the appliance gods bless us all. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

03-06-2003, 09:10 AM	#2
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	I've seen various historic and scientific reports on stirling engines. What i heard was no-one made them anymore, due to lack of industry interest or funding, but all of sudden people all around seem to rediscover this old concept (what was it already, around 1830 ?). IIRC Philips held the rights on stirling engines, but never pushed the research, and eventually stopped funding it altogether. At a time people tried stirling boat engines, and even car engines (GM tried it), and poof, nothing. It would be thrilling to get a hold of one of those puppies, for silence afficionados it would be an ultimate solution ! As for building one yourself, good luck, it has been a challenge for engineers for 1 century and half already. The high pressures and tight tolerances require top-quality materials, or leaks / cracks will develop. No wonder those things are expensive as hell. BTW they can work with just any gas, including "common" air.

03-07-2003, 06:04 AM	#3
Ace-One Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 3	Yeah, LOTS of links on the web. http://www.keveney.com/Vstirling.html http://www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/stirling.htm http://www.sesusa.org/DrIz/index.html http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~khirata/english/make.htm http://www.stirlingengine.com/kamen/...en_patent.html I haven't evn had time to read through all those, and there are plenty more, I'm sure. Well, if you have some insights, post'em !

03-07-2003, 09:23 AM	#4
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	!!! The patent application (last link) is frightening. How did the patent office accept that crap ? They patented a century-and-half old technology... Reading through the patent description (full of BS and long words meant to lose the intended readership, ie the patent office) i fail to find something new... Philips and GM did all that was possible about 50 years ago (edit) i need money. Gotta patent the steam engine and reclaim money to nuclear powerplants (which rely on steam engine principles)

03-18-2003, 04:05 PM	#10
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Yeah i've seen them on geothermal powerplants, as well.

03-20-2003, 04:46 PM	#11
surge Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 15	Hi all, Closed cycle refrigerators using helium gas and a modified Stirling cycle (tradename Displex, and pioneered by Air Products) have been used for some time, and can get to temperatures as low as 6K (-267 deg C!!). There is a monster one (4.5 kW) that will dissipate 100W at -196 deg C (liquid nitrogen temp). Stick that on your CPU!! Kind of expensive though.... see http://www.datacompscientific.com/Cryogenics/ARS3.PDF

03-20-2003, 05:07 PM	#12
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Expensive models have been around for years. What we're talking about is units that would be affordable for us hardware hacks to mess with. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

03-20-2003, 05:14 PM	#13
surge Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 15	Fair point! I was just trying to show what was technologically possible. Maybe I should have kept the old Displex we had in the lab and not thrown it out a couple of years ago..!!

03-23-2003, 04:59 PM	#14
pilsn3r Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: sweden Posts: 17	sterling motors are in use... http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/gotland.html look at Propulsion: Single-shaft, diesel-electric and Stirling Air Independent Propulsion (edit): read the thread a bit to fast...

04-07-2004, 01:55 AM	#15
j813 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: southeast asia Posts: 164	What's the update on this tech? Airspirit I'd just like to know if you ever tried to make one of this system?

04-07-2004, 02:12 AM	#16
pelle76 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sweden, Skovde Posts: 101	I saw a webshop a while ago that sold small sterling engine gadgets that run off the heat from a hand. You just needed to give it a push in the beginning and then it ran by iteslf as long as you had it in your palm. Pilsn3r: It takes swedes to make something like that, right

04-07-2004, 03:23 AM	#17
WAJ_UK Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sussex Posts: 109	I looked into it a bit a few months ago and the guys here http://www.globalcooling.nl/ seemed to be quite close to making affordable refrigeration units using the stirling cycle. I noticed that their website hadn't been updated since last September so I tried emailing them to find out what the progress was but I got no response. Which isn't really a good sign

04-07-2004, 01:15 PM	#18
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	I don't see any plans on the net that would help build a heat movement stirling engine. I see some plans that are for toy stirling engines driven by heat, though. I want plans for the equivalent of a heat pump capable of moving 200W of heat, of course!

04-13-2004, 04:41 PM	#21
pelle76 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sweden, Skovde Posts: 101	Found this guy who made his own sterling engine

04-14-2004, 08:43 AM	#22
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	I want plans for a cryocooler. It looks as if it might be difficult to fab, though.

05-30-2004, 03:00 PM	#23
JWFokker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 269	Maybe someone should let Swiftech or some other PC cooling company and let them know there's quite a bit of interest in this. Though a relatively small company like Swiftech would probably charge $200 easily for a small engine, considering they charge $50+ for a machined block of copper.

06-16-2004, 09:54 AM	#24
amd 64 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: breda Posts: 1	i am planning to build a stirling engine but i'am looking for formules.. and materials, i don't now how big the cilinders must be, to cool down (circa) 200watt @ -160 -190. mayby you could help? in that link: http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...ng_-_the_f.php says that you can buy a small stirling engine that uses 8-9 watt and cool down to 5 graden. where can i buy this (i am not so good in englisch sorry )

06-17-2004, 03:30 PM	#25
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	more info http://www.janis.com/p-stirling.html __________________ fr33t3chi3

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