New idea to prevent corrosion

[Dix Dogfight]

There are a few threads i this forum discussing corrosion in your watercoolingsetup.
I want som oppinions on this idea on how to prevent corrosion without adding purple ice etc.

Assume you have a wb made of aluminum and a radiator made of brass or copper, this would be a ideal setup for corrosin to take place. Since the wb and radiator isn't electrically connected to each other, i assume all of you allready have taken this precausion, the electrical current carried between them will have to be in form of ions in the water. By adding a stong, permanent, electric field across the waterflow at its slowest point will draw the ions to the edge of the tube and the ions will stay there untill you switch of the field.
The ideal setup for this should be:
Slow water flow, strong electric field, a long electric plate and a narrow gap between the plates.

In theory isolating the wb and radiator from each other should prevent corrosion. But unfortunatley the real world is a bit different.

So what do you guys think????

[Cyph3r]

good in theory... i heard about a similar device used in home plumbing systems... but haven't heard any more about it for a long time... only thing is that u'll be adding an additional em field to ur pc... how strong will it need to be and will that affect ur pc?


Cyph3r

[DigitalChaos]

interesting... but, what if some of the current goes to the cpu, or something else? it would cause electrolitic corrosion then.
and i believe it WOULD goto the block because thats how electricity works, if you had a 1ohm resistor and a 1megohm resistor in parallel. electricity would still go through the megohm.

i once saw an issue where AS conducted the voltage from a processor to the block, through the water, then through the ground in the pump. this caused pitting on the cpu side of the block.
im sure there are plenty of voltage and ground points in the system that will cause microleaks in the voltage

just my "why it wont work" ideas that i would want answered before it would touch my system.

but i still like the idea

[DigitalChaos]

maybe i could drop a deionizer in my rez =)

[Brad]

would 12v dc work? I seriously doubt that 12v would affect the cpu in anyway, due to the body of water it needs to go through, and the fact the top is the core is an electrical insulator

[Dix Dogfight]

Since the added electric field is static there will be no EMI from this iontrap.

It will infact reduce the electrical current, resulting from the corrosion, running through your CPU.

[futRtrubL]

To get the ions to do what yu want you need kV, 12V will definately not work. Even with a couple kV the ions will still move slowly along the inside wall of the tubing. This is all in all a bad idea.
My advice is to stick to a corrosion inhibitor such as redline or purpleice, and electrically isolate your rad and block. Even better would be changing it to an all Al or all Cu system.

Edward

[Dix Dogfight]

Edward
If im not misstaken the rate of acceleration is depending on two factors.
1: The strength of the electric field, bigger=better.
2: The width of the gap, smaller=better.

And since the relationship is linear the 100V is as good as 1kV if you make the gap 10 times smaller with the 100V version.

Do you have any figures to back your statment or maybe you can tell me of som kind of techpaper/report that covers this area.

I'm sorry, but you telling me it's a bad idea isn't enough to convince me. Unless you can prove it somehow.

[redleader]

The field would have to be immensely strong to hold dissolved ions against the plate with anything more then a trickle of flow. Long before you got any meanful containment you'd dissassociate water back into H2 and O2.

[EMC2]

The one thing I will say about that pic at the top, that's exactly how you make a capacitive sensor for water flow (hooked up to the proper circuit of course) The concept is used for industrial sensing applications of fluid flows

[Dix Dogfight]

redleader
Since the plates/electrodes aren't IN the water it won't dissassociate water back into H2 and O2.

EMC2
Is it the dielectric properties of water that affetcts the capacitance or how does the capacitive flowmeter you refer to work?

[sloppycoder]

*stares at picture and goes cross eyed*

those arnt coils, and they arnt in the water.

the only way the electricity it going from plate 1 to plate 2 is with a nice big beam of lightning straight around your insulated silicon tube and maybe onto plate 2 but more likly into the side of the case.

the electrodes do need to be inside. why would having them outside do anything at all? they are not coiled so wont generate any EM field worth considering.

slop

[Dix Dogfight]

The electricity isn't supposed to go from one plate to the other.
It's a electric field between the plates not a current.

[Cyph3r]

EM field actually

[phosphor]

Is this a magnetic field only around your water hose? If so, it will not work in this case. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (Basics of NMR) uses close to 10 Telsa (magnetic field unit. How strong is this? It has been known to pull a 20 pound pipewrench 15 feet through the air when it was inline with the magnetic field. I am not going into what it will do to your ‘puter.). Salt solutions can be used without any real effect on the ions (Na, K, Al, Cu, Cl, Br, hydroxide, hydronium) being pulled to one side or another. Unless we are talking about ferromagnetic type compounds, I can’t see it working well or at all. The other aspect is the lightning arc that can be seen with Telsa coils. I don’t think that 75,000 V at 75 mA will be good with any electronic component.

Actually, the best way to stop corrosion in a Al/Cu radiator block will be using a Zinc ingot as your anode on your radiator. They use these things everywhere on ships in salt water and even on steel pipes buried underground to slow the corrosion effects.

-phosphor

[Dix Dogfight]

For the LAST time! (i hope anyway)
It's NOT, i repeat, NOT a magnetic field.

Ok. First a quick refresher of your highschool physics and chemistry.

1* Two different metals with different electronegativity ,according to the Pauling scale, in water corrodes faster when free ions are present in the water (thats why deionised water is good to prevent corrosion, in the beginning anyway).
2* A ion has a elecric charge (positive or negative).
3* Any item with a positive or negative electric charge will be accelerated in a electric field.

Now back to the idea.
How do I reduce the number of ions in the water and by that slow down the corrosive process.

Would a elctric field across/through a vinyl tube attract/repell the ions to stop at that point in the tube?

It would be fairly simple to calculate this if the ions came "flying" through an empty tube. However the water is also present and provides a flouidous resistance. So my problem is I don't really know how to take that into the equation.

[sloppycoder]

Would a elctric field across/through a vinyl tube attract/repell the ions to stop at that point in the tube?

ahh, not the way its setup in the diagram. the resistance would be too high and there would not even be any flow of electricity, and im fairly sure, no electric field.

if you use a coil wrapped around the tube it will create a magnetic field that will attract/repel the ions. i know you said it wasnt magnetic but magnetism is the only feasable way i can think of on this scale of getting it to work.

slop

[Dix Dogfight]

Trust me on this one.
1* THE ELECTRIC FIELD WILL BE THERE.
2* THERE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A ELECTRIC FLOW/CURRENT.
3* A MAGNETIC FIELD DOESN'T HAVE ANY DIFFERENT EFFECT ON A ION THAN THE WATER SURRUNDING IT. (Unless you start thinking in the ways of NMR).

Att det ska vara så jäkla svårt att få ett vettigt svar från någon som kan både teoretisk elektroteknink och flödesdynamik.

[schoolie]

This is essentially a diffusion problem. I don't think it would work very well on water moving through a tube. Remember also that the water is a strong dipole which is why it dissolves salts so well. The attraction to the water molecules will slow down the diffusion of the ions to the plates.

Does anybody have a link to a practical application? Maybe a less physics-challenged person than I can offer more insight.

[phosphor]

What you are describing is Field Flow Fractionation FFF without the column to separate the macromolecules. I hope that this will shed some light on this topic because I was thinking in the wrong direction.



Still, I tend to agree with the previous post that ions that are in solution tend to stay in solution. The separation of something this small would require a very high field and really slow flow.

-phosphor

[Dix Dogfight]

Excellent phosphor.
Now I know where to start looking.
Thanks alot.