Closed Loop vs. Reservoir Systems

BolivianSoldier · 03-04-2002, 10:18 PM

I haven't seen any discussion of closed loop vs. reservoir systems.

What are the advantages or disadvantages?

Oh course, space is an issue. But, if space isn't an issue....

ondaedg · 03-04-2002, 10:24 PM

Good question. I do know that one disadvantage to a closed loop system is bleeding/filling. It can be quite difficult. I like to hear others opinions too.

Fixittt · 03-04-2002, 10:40 PM

well with a open loop, U have the pump in the res, makes for filling and bleeding very easy. Also with a res U have more coolant in the system, which does help. And I never hear my pump running in my aluminum res. The draw back to this is, the pump adds heat to the coolant.

an open loop is basicly just the opposite, No heat added to the water, takes up more case space (Which I think is valuable) bleeding and filling is a pain, less coolant in the system means more maintance. More places to spring a leak and noise.

I think that covers the basics.

BolivianSoldier · 03-04-2002, 10:53 PM

Quote:

with a res U have more coolant in the system, which does help. And I never hear my pump running in my aluminum res. The draw back to this is, the pump adds heat to the coolant.

Take DH3 for example...that system uses external reservoirs.

The external reservoirs eliminate the added heat to the coolant from the pump plus give the system the advantage of added coolant....

But how much adavantage does it give? I'm not really looking to have the advantage quantified; just the theory.

I would imagine that the coolant is at its coldest temp when it leaves the radiator. With external reservoirs, doesn't the cooled coolant sit their soaking up radiated heat from inside the case or is the amount of heat absorbed minimal and irrelevant?

Brad · 03-04-2002, 11:53 PM

I use pumps outside a resivoir in my system, I did it cause it's a bit easier for me.

a pump can be from 10 - 25w (normal sized things, not 1500gph) while most watercooled athlons are over 100w. It isn't too big a deal..

decodeddiesel · 03-05-2002, 12:39 AM

The advantages gained from the ease of filling with an inline reservoir make it far and away the best solution IMO. I have used a classic Reservoir, strictly inline, and an inline reservoir hybrid system. I will never be using anything but a hybrid system again.

Kevin · 03-05-2002, 01:10 AM

If I rememer right, there were like two or three threads that got pretty dirty with this issue a while back. you may wanna search.
-Kev

scythe · 03-05-2002, 06:58 PM

i dunno a closed system with a bleeder line off of a t fitting and a funel and pop bottle or somthing would be rather easy to fill just hold the funnel and the tubing off the t hold hte bottle poor slowly and wait

redleader · 03-05-2002, 10:02 PM

No it isn't! You end up playing with it for 3 hours trying to get enough air out that it doesn't kill the pump. Ts are quick to build, but if you EVER plan on updateing the system, you will not regret getting an inline res.

BolivianSoldier · 03-05-2002, 11:47 PM

No one seems to be defending/pimping closed loop systems...interesting.

Is it because it is an inferior system or just a huge pain in the neck?

Quote:

No it isn't! You end up playing with it for 3 hours trying to get enough air out that it doesn't kill the pump.

Sounds like the voice of experience to me.

BolivianSoldier · 03-05-2002, 11:49 PM

Oh yeah...

Joe must be really busy. Thought he would have an opinion one way or the other!

UnaClocker · 03-05-2002, 11:52 PM

Filling a closed loop system
I did a quick comparison of the benefits and problems with each type of setup, closed loop, and reservior in that article.. Have a look..

JimS · 03-06-2002, 05:42 AM

Filling a closed loop system is a nightmare. It may take you weeks before you get all the air out. I have tried both ways and inline pump outside the reservoir is the way to go IMHO.

Putting a "T" at the top of a closed loop system helps a little, but it still is a nightmare to bleed and fill.

With a reservoir, I fill my system in 45 seconds, all air is gone within a minute or two.

mashie · 03-06-2002, 05:59 AM

I'm running inline with a "T" to an airtrap/refill. It took me 15 min to fill and another hour or two to get rid of all air in the system. The reason it took so long to fill was because I didn't plan it good enough (I blame it was my first attempt). With a "T" just before the suction side of the pump it will be just as quick to fill as a reservoir system.

Nordic · 03-06-2002, 11:46 AM

I used a T on the suction side of my pump but I could never get the air out. Well two weeks of having to hear the sound of the impeller misbehaving convinced me to build a small inline reservoir that traps air and serves as a filling point. I wish I'd thought of that from the beginning. Here is a pic of my system, with the reservoir in the upper right.

The water is slightly redish from the added Water Wetter. The brighter, thicker hose is silicon, the rest is PVC - i plan to replace the PVC with silicon some time.

Jim · 03-07-2002, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scythe
i dunno a closed system with a bleeder line off of a t fitting and a funel and pop bottle or somthing would be rather easy to fill just hold the funnel and the tubing off the t hold hte bottle poor slowly and wait

That's how I did it.
Take's a while, but it works.

Jim

Brad · 03-08-2002, 03:26 AM

in a yycube you have the room to be able to run a res, inline with the pump, or have the pump in the res. In a small case you just don't have the room to make an inline res and pump work without using space where the pci slots are.

I say go for res when there is room, if there isn't just stay inline

melvyn · 03-08-2002, 10:37 AM

How about 2 tee's?? One at the top to bleed air out, and one at the lowest point to fill with, something line this...

Click here becaue Roadrunner will no longer let me have a personal server, and their webserver doesn't allow direct linking.

When the system is full, you would cap the fill and bleed tubes to prevent water loss.

decodeddiesel · 03-08-2002, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melvyn
How about 2 tee's?? One at the top to bleed air out, and one at the lowest point to fill with, something line this...

When the system is full, you would cap the fill and bleed tubes to prevent water loss.

Well it still wouldn't be as easy to bleed and fill as a inline reservoir, but thats a good idea. Nice thinking "outside the box" I'm impressed.

Jim · 03-08-2002, 04:12 PM

Be sure to put the "T" on the higher port of the water block. Right now I have my only "T" in the exact location as you fill tube "T".

As millions have informed me from this forum,

I have my "T" in the wrong place! (I already knew that but Sh*^ happens).

So I was thinking of just leaving the existing "T" and adding another as you illustrated in you sketch.

The image below shows my setup, radiator is out back connected with copper. My second "T" should be installed on the high (left) block barb.

Jim

mashie · 03-08-2002, 04:55 PM

To get the best effect of the T make sure that the water has to turn 90 degrees, sort of smash it in the wall so the air can go up while the water is forced down.

Jim · 03-08-2002, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mashie
To get the best effect of the T make sure that the water has to turn 90 degrees, sort of smash it in the wall so the air can go up while the water is forced down.

I think I got you. You want the water to hit a vertical surface to aid in separating the air from the water. AH hah, I see what you are saying now.

So the installation of the "T" should be to position it with the long part of the "T" on a vertical so the moving water hits the back of the fitting and then drives down and hopefully air up.

Ok.

Jim

mashie · 03-08-2002, 06:43 PM

That's correct, here you can see how my T is placed:

Refill on top, water in on the left and water out in the bottom.

Jim · 03-08-2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mashie
That's correct, here you can see how my T is placed:

Refill on top, water in on the left and water out in the bottom.

I see your X but no "T"?

Nothing like a smart ars right!

Jim

Cyco-Dude · 03-08-2002, 07:37 PM

jim, it would be simle to fix your current setup. the hose from the WB out goes down to your T, left is air trap and right to your pump. disconnect it right there (take that small piece off of your pump). put your air trap inside your case (becasue thats where it'll end up). now rotate the WB outlet hose so instead of going down, it goes to the right (or towards the front of your case). it'll get to the T, and go down to your pump, and up will be the air trap. you will have to put a longer piece of hose for the air trap. i can draw you a diagram if you want...

03-04-2002, 10:18 PM	#1
BolivianSoldier Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5	Closed Loop vs. Reservoir Systems I haven't seen any discussion of closed loop vs. reservoir systems. What are the advantages or disadvantages? Oh course, space is an issue. But, if space isn't an issue....

03-04-2002, 10:24 PM	#2
ondaedg Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 130	Good question. I do know that one disadvantage to a closed loop system is bleeding/filling. It can be quite difficult. I like to hear others opinions too. __________________ ondaedg@procooling.com

03-04-2002, 10:40 PM	#3
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	well with a open loop, U have the pump in the res, makes for filling and bleeding very easy. Also with a res U have more coolant in the system, which does help. And I never hear my pump running in my aluminum res. The draw back to this is, the pump adds heat to the coolant. an open loop is basicly just the opposite, No heat added to the water, takes up more case space (Which I think is valuable) bleeding and filling is a pain, less coolant in the system means more maintance. More places to spring a leak and noise. I think that covers the basics. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

03-04-2002, 11:53 PM	#5
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I use pumps outside a resivoir in my system, I did it cause it's a bit easier for me. a pump can be from 10 - 25w (normal sized things, not 1500gph) while most watercooled athlons are over 100w. It isn't too big a deal.. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-05-2002, 12:39 AM	#6
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	The advantages gained from the ease of filling with an inline reservoir make it far and away the best solution IMO. I have used a classic Reservoir, strictly inline, and an inline reservoir hybrid system. I will never be using anything but a hybrid system again. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

03-05-2002, 01:10 AM	#7
Kevin Slacking more than your weird uncle Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: San Diego, CA (UCSD) / Los Angeles, CA (home) Posts: 1,605	If I rememer right, there were like two or three threads that got pretty dirty with this issue a while back. you may wanna search. -Kev __________________ I used to throw hot coffee all over the ass of the horse there, then whip him while he was kickin' at me. Those f***in things are crazy.

03-05-2002, 06:58 PM	#8
scythe Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: fp , michigan Posts: 76	i dunno a closed system with a bleeder line off of a t fitting and a funel and pop bottle or somthing would be rather easy to fill just hold the funnel and the tubing off the t hold hte bottle poor slowly and wait __________________ ...[-_-]... +-{ i }-+ ....[][].....

03-05-2002, 10:02 PM	#9
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	No it isn't! You end up playing with it for 3 hours trying to get enough air out that it doesn't kill the pump. Ts are quick to build, but if you EVER plan on updateing the system, you will not regret getting an inline res.

03-05-2002, 11:49 PM	#11
BolivianSoldier Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 5	Oh yeah... Joe must be really busy. Thought he would have an opinion one way or the other! __________________ ...the soldiers are tired from their long march through the cold and the mud. They need to be fed.

03-05-2002, 11:52 PM	#12
UnaClocker Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 514	Filling a closed loop system I did a quick comparison of the benefits and problems with each type of setup, closed loop, and reservior in that article.. Have a look.. __________________ The UnaClocker Watercooler Extraordinaire! Overclock till it goes BOOM!

03-06-2002, 05:42 AM	#13
JimS Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 140	Filling a closed loop system is a nightmare. It may take you weeks before you get all the air out. I have tried both ways and inline pump outside the reservoir is the way to go IMHO. Putting a "T" at the top of a closed loop system helps a little, but it still is a nightmare to bleed and fill. With a reservoir, I fill my system in 45 seconds, all air is gone within a minute or two.

03-06-2002, 05:59 AM	#14
mashie Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 149	I'm running inline with a "T" to an airtrap/refill. It took me 15 min to fill and another hour or two to get rid of all air in the system. The reason it took so long to fill was because I didn't plan it good enough (I blame it was my first attempt). With a "T" just before the suction side of the pump it will be just as quick to fill as a reservoir system. __________________ mashie

03-06-2002, 11:46 AM	#15
Nordic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 98	I used a T on the suction side of my pump but I could never get the air out. Well two weeks of having to hear the sound of the impeller misbehaving convinced me to build a small inline reservoir that traps air and serves as a filling point. I wish I'd thought of that from the beginning. Here is a pic of my system, with the reservoir in the upper right. The water is slightly redish from the added Water Wetter. The brighter, thicker hose is silicon, the rest is PVC - i plan to replace the PVC with silicon some time. __________________ Pump:Eheim 1048, Radiator:LPD radiator 100x150x20mm, CPU block:DD Maze-2, GPU block: DD GPU block, Chipset block:Zalman NB32 AMD XP 1500+, EpoX 8K7A, PoV GF3Ti200 Pic of my YY-cube

03-08-2002, 03:26 AM	#17
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	in a yycube you have the room to be able to run a res, inline with the pump, or have the pump in the res. In a small case you just don't have the room to make an inline res and pump work without using space where the pci slots are. I say go for res when there is room, if there isn't just stay inline __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-08-2002, 10:37 AM	#18
melvyn Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 69	How about 2 tee's?? One at the top to bleed air out, and one at the lowest point to fill with, something line this... Click here becaue Roadrunner will no longer let me have a personal server, and their webserver doesn't allow direct linking. When the system is full, you would cap the fill and bleed tubes to prevent water loss. Last edited by melvyn; 03-28-2002 at 10:14 AM.

03-08-2002, 04:12 PM	#20
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Be sure to put the "T" on the higher port of the water block. Right now I have my only "T" in the exact location as you fill tube "T". As millions have informed me from this forum, I have my "T" in the wrong place! (I already knew that but Sh*^ happens). So I was thinking of just leaving the existing "T" and adding another as you illustrated in you sketch. The image below shows my setup, radiator is out back connected with copper. My second "T" should be installed on the high (left) block barb. Jim

03-08-2002, 04:55 PM	#21
mashie Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 149	To get the best effect of the T make sure that the water has to turn 90 degrees, sort of smash it in the wall so the air can go up while the water is forced down. __________________ mashie

03-08-2002, 06:43 PM	#23
mashie Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 149	That's correct, here you can see how my T is placed: Refill on top, water in on the left and water out in the bottom. __________________ mashie

03-08-2002, 07:37 PM	#25
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	jim, it would be simle to fix your current setup. the hose from the WB out goes down to your T, left is air trap and right to your pump. disconnect it right there (take that small piece off of your pump). put your air trap inside your case (becasue thats where it'll end up). now rotate the WB outlet hose so instead of going down, it goes to the right (or towards the front of your case). it'll get to the T, and go down to your pump, and up will be the air trap. you will have to put a longer piece of hose for the air trap. i can draw you a diagram if you want...

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