CPU blocks so big, why?

orev · 03-28-2002, 10:40 PM

Now that the AMD holes are going away, and the revelation of the nano block so long ago, I'm left wondering why so many of these CPU blocks are still so big.

It seems like a pretty big waste of metal, not to mention the added weight and mounting issues, to have all these spiraling channels running around, when the only real heat transfer is taking place right over the core itself.

Am I missing something here? It seems like one could easily get away with 1 channel going left-to-right over the core, then out. Why aren't we seeing anything like that?

UnaClocker · 03-28-2002, 10:46 PM

The socket A holes are not going away. It's just online rumor crap, no more true than when people said the multiplier pins were going to be removed from the chip, or that XP chips wouldn't run SMP.

mkosem · 03-28-2002, 11:01 PM

hmm, yes, all the conspiracy!

--Matt

Fixittt · 03-28-2002, 11:09 PM

because we are MEN, and being men, we like BIG stuff! NUFF SAID!

mkosem · 03-28-2002, 11:15 PM

I must tend to aggree with you fix

--Matt

Joe · 03-28-2002, 11:28 PM

WTF is up with the eye avatars!? that just freaks me out

Brad · 03-28-2002, 11:34 PM

why doesn't anyone have a tit as their avatar?

decodeddiesel · 03-29-2002, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe
WTF is up with the eye avatars!? that just freaks me out

I was wondering the same thing myself...

Cyco-Dude · 03-29-2002, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
why doesn't anyone have a tit as their avatar?

LOL! funny stuffs

schoolie · 03-29-2002, 01:59 AM

Quote:

why doesn't anyone have a tit as their avatar?

Are you an ornithologist, Brad? I have a picture of one, but I'm not allowed to upload a custom avatar yet

Brad · 03-29-2002, 02:54 AM

what about a beaver?

Joe · 03-29-2002, 06:47 AM

brad thats simple, cause I would remove that avatar from the user.

and there is a beaver avatar. just not that kind of beaver.

Marco · 03-29-2002, 07:25 AM

Outstanding hijack gentlemen

Returning on-topic, seriously, what stops us from making smaller blocks? Will a smaller block neccessarily work much worse? I have an idea brewing, maybe I'll try some solidworks renderwork and see if I can cobble together some visualization of what I'm thinking of.

orev · 03-29-2002, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnaClocker
The socket A holes are not going away. It's just online rumor crap, no more true than when people said the multiplier pins were going to be removed from the chip, or that XP chips wouldn't run SMP.

Well, it doesn't really matter if it's rumors or not, it doesn't have much bearing on the question of "is the size really needed?"

Also, of the boards I'm looking at, most of them do NOT have speed holes (Dual CPU), so if it's part of the spec or not it doesn't really matter to me. I just need to find a block that fits, and hopefully doesn't warp the mobo in the process (multiply the weight by 2!).

jaydee · 03-29-2002, 09:20 AM

My blocks are 3"x2" as that is as big as I can get on my Epox 8K7A without some serious mods that I don't want to do. If the block is wider it has more surface area on the bottom of the block to "spread" the heat out so all the chanels get used.

If you mobo is mounted correctly in the case then weight will not be that big a deal. If you want light blocks go with Aluminum as it is much lighter than Copper and still cools well.

shroomer · 03-29-2002, 09:37 AM

I would also GUESS that in the event of a pump failure a bigger block would take longer to heat up. This would give shutdown software more time to work...

I AM in the process of designing a small block, though. Unfortunately people have already been talking about some of the ideas I had. Oh well.

schoolie · 03-29-2002, 09:50 AM

I wonder if the larger base size of a MAZE2-sized block makes a difference. It seems that some of the best performing blocks out there are only 5cmx5cm blocks. However the larger blocks probably do buy a little extra time, in the event of a pump failure.

Fixittt · 03-29-2002, 10:52 AM

PROBABLY?????? I know they do

I have had my system running for 15 minutes with the pump shut off. Ok, 15 minutes before the alarm went off and I figured out the pump had gotten unplugged by my ferret. But still, it ran for 15 minutes with no water curculation. I would love to see someone do that with a small block. HEHEHEHE ( no disrespect intended here) but I dont really see that haponing with the gemini blocks. I talked to Peter on the phone and he agreeded with me on that.

Also I had pelt options in mind when I designed it. So a bigger much more meater block was needed.

BillA · 03-29-2002, 11:27 AM

orev
your observation is quite correct

just ask any who disagree to demonstrate the cooling benefit of 2x3in. size by calculation or with test data
Una's seat-of-the-pants results should have prompted this question long ago

we are observing sheep following each other off a cliff

but hey, "its manly"
and the sheep will pay $

Fixittt · 03-29-2002, 11:40 AM

Another thing you have tothink about is this.
With the larger blocks, you have more room to "CREATE" With all the stunning blocks that are coming out now, it is harder to creata a good looking block while still having it preform well. At least that is the way I look at it. I am a form and function kind of guy. I like things that look and preform good. But hey what do I know?

(Smiley indicates humor)

futRtrubL · 03-29-2002, 05:29 PM

Nanoblocks do work well, with moderate heat loads. However to cool overclocked XPs (or worce with pelts.) you need the larger surface area given by larger blocks, and yes, all that area is used, the base of the blocks spread the heat well.

Edward

Brad · 03-29-2002, 08:25 PM

copper is such a good conductor of heat it makes sense to make the block bigger and give it more surface area to remove the heat

#Rotor · 03-30-2002, 09:59 AM

I have always made my blocks small and thin... The secret is block volume vs. internal surface area.... that ratio is what makes a block's performance good, bad or ugly.....

I prefer to go for all out 100% maximum performance, looks sometimes get in the way of that... not that looks are not important.... I prefer to think of it as the MCLarenF1 Syndrome..... you don't need to look faster than a Viper, to be able to kick it's ass.

Brad · 03-30-2002, 04:03 PM

rotor, the McLaren F1 was also very light, it was a car designed to completely ignore price, just speed and comfort.

The Quattro is a small block too, but probably one of the best performing out there

Fixittt · 03-30-2002, 04:08 PM

yes, it may be one of the best preforming blocks out there (Ill take your word on it)

But how much better does it preform? It cant be more then 3 to 5 C

03-28-2002, 10:40 PM	#1
orev Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 35	CPU blocks so big, why? Now that the AMD holes are going away, and the revelation of the nano block so long ago, I'm left wondering why so many of these CPU blocks are still so big. It seems like a pretty big waste of metal, not to mention the added weight and mounting issues, to have all these spiraling channels running around, when the only real heat transfer is taking place right over the core itself. Am I missing something here? It seems like one could easily get away with 1 channel going left-to-right over the core, then out. Why aren't we seeing anything like that?

03-28-2002, 10:46 PM	#2
UnaClocker Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 514	The socket A holes are not going away. It's just online rumor crap, no more true than when people said the multiplier pins were going to be removed from the chip, or that XP chips wouldn't run SMP. __________________ The UnaClocker Watercooler Extraordinaire! Overclock till it goes BOOM!

03-28-2002, 11:01 PM	#3
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	hmm, yes, all the conspiracy! --Matt __________________ If you can't cool it, blow it up!! http://www.mattkosem.com

03-28-2002, 11:09 PM	#4
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	because we are MEN, and being men, we like BIG stuff! NUFF SAID! __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

03-28-2002, 11:15 PM	#5
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	I must tend to aggree with you fix --Matt __________________ If you can't cool it, blow it up!! http://www.mattkosem.com

03-28-2002, 11:28 PM	#6
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	WTF is up with the eye avatars!? that just freaks me out __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

03-28-2002, 11:34 PM	#7
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	why doesn't anyone have a tit as their avatar? __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-29-2002, 02:54 AM	#11
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	what about a beaver? __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-29-2002, 06:47 AM	#12
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	brad thats simple, cause I would remove that avatar from the user. and there is a beaver avatar. just not that kind of beaver. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

03-29-2002, 07:25 AM	#13
Marco Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79	Outstanding hijack gentlemen Returning on-topic, seriously, what stops us from making smaller blocks? Will a smaller block neccessarily work much worse? I have an idea brewing, maybe I'll try some solidworks renderwork and see if I can cobble together some visualization of what I'm thinking of.

03-29-2002, 09:20 AM	#15
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	My blocks are 3"x2" as that is as big as I can get on my Epox 8K7A without some serious mods that I don't want to do. If the block is wider it has more surface area on the bottom of the block to "spread" the heat out so all the chanels get used. If you mobo is mounted correctly in the case then weight will not be that big a deal. If you want light blocks go with Aluminum as it is much lighter than Copper and still cools well.

03-29-2002, 09:37 AM	#16
shroomer Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 15	I would also GUESS that in the event of a pump failure a bigger block would take longer to heat up. This would give shutdown software more time to work... I AM in the process of designing a small block, though. Unfortunately people have already been talking about some of the ideas I had. Oh well.

03-29-2002, 09:50 AM	#17
schoolie Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 120	I wonder if the larger base size of a MAZE2-sized block makes a difference. It seems that some of the best performing blocks out there are only 5cmx5cm blocks. However the larger blocks probably do buy a little extra time, in the event of a pump failure.

03-29-2002, 10:52 AM	#18
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	PROBABLY?????? I know they do I have had my system running for 15 minutes with the pump shut off. Ok, 15 minutes before the alarm went off and I figured out the pump had gotten unplugged by my ferret. But still, it ran for 15 minutes with no water curculation. I would love to see someone do that with a small block. HEHEHEHE ( no disrespect intended here) but I dont really see that haponing with the gemini blocks. I talked to Peter on the phone and he agreeded with me on that. Also I had pelt options in mind when I designed it. So a bigger much more meater block was needed. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

03-29-2002, 11:27 AM	#19
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	orev your observation is quite correct just ask any who disagree to demonstrate the cooling benefit of 2x3in. size by calculation or with test data Una's seat-of-the-pants results should have prompted this question long ago we are observing sheep following each other off a cliff but hey, "its manly" and the sheep will pay $

03-29-2002, 11:40 AM	#20
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Another thing you have tothink about is this. With the larger blocks, you have more room to "CREATE" With all the stunning blocks that are coming out now, it is harder to creata a good looking block while still having it preform well. At least that is the way I look at it. I am a form and function kind of guy. I like things that look and preform good. But hey what do I know? (Smiley indicates humor) __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

03-29-2002, 05:29 PM	#21
futRtrubL Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Posts: 204	Nanoblocks do work well, with moderate heat loads. However to cool overclocked XPs (or worce with pelts.) you need the larger surface area given by larger blocks, and yes, all that area is used, the base of the blocks spread the heat well. Edward

03-29-2002, 08:25 PM	#22
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	copper is such a good conductor of heat it makes sense to make the block bigger and give it more surface area to remove the heat __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-30-2002, 09:59 AM	#23
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I have always made my blocks small and thin... The secret is block volume vs. internal surface area.... that ratio is what makes a block's performance good, bad or ugly..... I prefer to go for all out 100% maximum performance, looks sometimes get in the way of that... not that looks are not important.... I prefer to think of it as the MCLarenF1 Syndrome..... you don't need to look faster than a Viper, to be able to kick it's ass.

03-30-2002, 04:03 PM	#24
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	rotor, the McLaren F1 was also very light, it was a car designed to completely ignore price, just speed and comfort. The Quattro is a small block too, but probably one of the best performing out there __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-30-2002, 04:08 PM	#25
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	yes, it may be one of the best preforming blocks out there (Ill take your word on it) But how much better does it preform? It cant be more then 3 to 5 C __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

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