Question about milling a waterblock

[Wiss]

Howdy, I was wondering if anyone had any info on how one could get a block milled semi-professionally or professionally or if it would be better to just take a drill press and a dremel to a piece of copper bar stock? I'd like to give a whirl with a custom block, something I haven't seen yet... Thinking about going with either a 1 input - 2 output style block or a high flow that feeds from one side and out the other using 2 spirals from a central channel, something like this (courtesy of MS Paint, should see an attachment.) Thanks for any info you might have.

[fresno12]

Try a high school or a community college metal shop
most of the time they are willing to help or can point you in the right direction in your area.

fresno12

[Wiss]

I'll have to check around Macomb CC and see what I can come up with. Thanks again.

[Fixittt]

Wiss, I dont recomend going to a machin shop to get just one block made see my artical on www.custom-cooling.com about the cost of blocks.

What I would do is see if you can find a school (like was mentioned) or get to be good friends with a guy in a machine shop.

Or find someone that has the CNC machines that can do it for you.

I would help you, but I am totally swamped.

Also trying that on a drill press I beleive would be way to hard. I can almost garantee that for the hours that you put into it, it would not come out to your liking.

I really hope that you can get it made somehow, as I would be interested in seeing it. Also, that is going to be some seriouse CAD work to get the drawing right.

Good luck my friend.

You might also see what some of the home machinist might charge you for a block like that. You might have to go for aluminum as copper is a bit harsh to machine on a desktop mill.

Check out the MAXNC news group on yahoo.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MaxNC-users/

[Wiss]

Good thing I went to an engineering school, eh? I'll have to hit up my brother-in-law or a couple of other mechanical engineer friends I know. As I was a business major (well 3 other majors but that was my last one) I know Jack and squat about CAD. Just how big a favor am I asking, for those in the know, to get this done up in CAD? Are we talking a 6 pack, case... domestic or import? Thanks for your feedback Fixxit

[Fixittt]

To get it done up in a cad drawing in 3d, youa re prolly talking about a keg of import and maybe the use of your girlfriend/wife for a night

[Wiss]

I'll ask my brother-in-law (wife's bro) then and pick up 2 kegs to compensate, that or I'll try to learn CAD. Thanks again Fixxit.

[Brad]

hey fix, isn't the spiral2 going to be like that design?

[Fixittt]

Brad,

Ohh No!!!!!!!!!! I feel that that design is to hard to machine in copper, because of the small channels. You will have to use small diam. end mills. And copper is not machine friendly. You will destroy (man can I not type today, I hate feeling this way!!!!! ARRGGHH) more tooling. Which will in turn rais the cost per part. That is what alot of people dont understand about copper. It gets gummy when machined and sticks to cutting tools. Just ask Danger Den haw many carbide endmills they broke putting that o-ring grove in the maze 3 blocks.

When dealing with copper, Bigger tools= more strength which= longer tooling life.

[Brad]

hmm, I was thinking of less channels, making them all 3/8" or so wide, by 3/8" high

[Fixittt]

Well to give you an idea, I destroyed a 7/16 th endmill about every 7 blocks. It was almost a pattern. And that was at a slowed feed rate. I think geminicool will agree with me, that copper is just bad to machine.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Fixittt
Well to give you an idea, I destroyed a 7/16 th endmill about every 7 blocks. It was almost a pattern. And that was at a slowed feed rate. I think geminicool will agree with me, that copper is just bad to machine.

Copper sucks to mill!!!!

[UpAllNight]

well on my CNC with flooded coolant its not to bad ...dont get me wrong its nothing like ALU. but it takes some time to work out feeds and speeds and endmills that are designed to cut Copper..if u guys wont to know what brand of carbide endmill to use that would be Garr Tools solid carbide EM....run it at a 1000 rpm 3 ipm feed rate with flooded coolant(makes alot of difference)
we use these every day cutting 4140 heat treated to 32-36 RC
straight through .500 thick plate 1 pass...they are very impressive..i guess i have tryed about one of every brand and this is the best for the money...your talking about 25.00 for a 3/8 double end...not coated but the coated will last much longer than the standard carbide....i think the coated are about 7.00 more though....it also makes a difference as to the rigidity of your part and your machine....all we have are CNC that are from a 100,000 dollars and up in price...

hey Wiss if u cant find any help i could wip that drawing out for ya...been using Autocad sence before Windows...probly could whip that out in a hour or so


If any of u guys need help machining or programing just let me know...

[jaydee]

Originally posted by UpAllNight
straight through .500 thick plate 1 pass...they are very impressive..

I can get a hole 1/32" a pass with mine will Copper at the slowest feed rate!!! Any more than that and the vibrations begin. Wish I had a $100,000 mill instead of a $1,700 one!!!

[UpAllNight]

Jaydee...do u start out with a ball EM...if so try a flat bottom one and cut down the depth of your straight walls then go to a ball EM....Ball em suck at roughing no matter what kinda EM it is

[Fixittt]

hey UP all night, thanks for the offer I might take you up on some of that

I have used the 100,000 dollan machines, now I use a 2500 machine.

There is a big diference. about 3000 pounds!! LOL I can fit mine in the front seat of my truck

we cant plundge like the big boys, we have to ramp into a part.
wel also have to deal with motors that will stall when taking large cuts. a full 1/4 HP!

copper is just a b!t@h for us to machine

BTW what cam software do U use?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by UpAllNight
Jaydee...do u start out with a ball EM...if so try a flat bottom one and cut down the depth of your straight walls then go to a ball EM....Ball em suck at roughing no matter what kinda EM it is

No, I use standard flat bottom endmills. I got 1/3HP motor at 0-1100RPM or 0-3000RPM depending on the belt settings. If I use 0-1100 then I get more torque but loose the needed speed to make the cut smooth.

[Fixittt]

but U need the torque to make sure you dont stall the machine
man I wish I had the $300 for the motor upgrade for my mill

[UpAllNight]

Fixittt i use smartcam its the full blown pakage with 3d....but i do all my cad work in Autocad 2000 which is the full blown pakage to


Sorry to hear that jaydee....i have seen those little mills before...i myself would love to have one at home for little projects...my mills weigh about 18000 pounds...no way to get that in your front seat...lol


hey fixittt if u sen me a program that works in your mill i can write a new post processer so i can spit the code for your mill write out

[Fixittt]

hey Up allnight, Paul the guy I used to work with at the machine shop runs smart cam as well. and he uses teck soft

I also have a copy of smart cam but I find that there are way to many operatiuons in macking a tool path. I cant seem to figure it out. Mine has 3d as well. But its just so hard.

do you program for haas machines? we have made a batch file that takes a haas g-code and cuts out all the stuff my mill wont read.

know of any good books for smart cam? To help me learn?

[UpAllNight]

no haas,s here but i have seen the code for them its alot like what i program...most of the time the only difference in machins is tool change codes and the beginning and ending of the program..its a standard G01 is a straight feed and G02 and G03 are circles...most of the time the can cycles for drilling are the same....

As for smartcam books...i have a stack of them here...what version do u have?

oh yeah i dont do my cad drawing in smartcam i just apply a tool path in smartcam...i find it to be rather easy myself but i guess thats form just using it for so long

it pretty good i think i did a model for a wind tunnle for the goverment of a body on a stretch boeing 747...and thats some serious 3d...it was something like 700 3d surfaces...it took me 40 hrs to program...and like 25000 lines of code

[Fixittt]

without installing it, I want to say that it is ver 9 or 14 one of the older ones I beleive

[UpAllNight]

i could send u the manuls if u want them....but they arent very good without having a basic know how

[Fixittt]

well I drew the Spir@l block in smart cam........... but that was about it.

[UpAllNight]

for me its much easyer to darw in autocad...and that what a majorty of people do that i know....just no good software that is good at both cad and cam


I cant wait to get my water system finished so i can get into making some water blocks....i know i can machine them its just the design that i have to work on...but i dont think i will mill the one i make im thinking a wire edm would do alot better job of getting water paths in such a small area