Water cooling my condensor

|PuNiSh3R| · 06-18-2002, 01:18 AM

Thinking of water cooling my condensor in my phase change setup.. It will take MUCH fan power to cool it down.. to much noise for me..

Any suggestions on how I should water cool would be nice.. I am thinking of just using a bucket.. maybe 2 5 gallons or something and having the grill sit right in the water.. but it does get quite hot when the evaporator is under load..

The thing is.. once I finally put this setup on my machine.. the frige will NEVER turn off.. if it does.. I am going to let it sit and cool the water down to below 20F before I turn my machine on.. when I turn my PC off.. the frige stays on.. so I expect water temps when I wake up in the morning to be very close if not below 0F.

As long as the water stays cold.. the evaporator can handle it and the condensor grill doesn't get hot.

bigben2k · 06-18-2002, 08:37 AM

Not sure if condensor was meant to be used immersed. You talkin' bout the hot rad, right?

You can use a very large fan and run it very slowly. These things are usually designed to run without any kind of fan anyways.

Alternatively, I'd try a blower, but then you'd have to encase that rad, at least partially.

Dix Dogfight · 06-18-2002, 08:38 AM

Don't know if i understand you correctly, but here's my 2 cents.

Just placing the condensor in a bucket of water will only make the water boil after a while. And i don't think the phase change system works well when the condensor is at 100C.

Therfore you must use a pump and a radiator with a fan to keep the water cold enough. And you have acomplished nothing. Because the fan is still there, making noise, and you have only added another thermal interface betveen the condensor and the air.

Cooling the water with excess cold from the phase change won't work because the you are trying to cool the phase change with it self. And for that to work you need a 'perpetuus mobile'.
Hmm.... maybe DD sells those

cheers

|PuNiSh3R| · 06-18-2002, 08:53 AM

Yea.. I understand I would need a rad and pump and all..

Thinking of turning the condensor into a spiral shape and putting it inside of a piece piece of PVC pipe.. then having the fan on each side.. maybe adding fins to the opening of the pipe to create the tornado effect inside which will take air in better and use it more efficiently... like that thing you can buy for your car.. and put into the air intake..

bigben2k · 06-18-2002, 10:17 AM

It's beginning to sound like a rebuild...

Definitely the immersion thing won't work. I'd go with the blower, and your tube/box idea.

BTW, it's normal, and actually very good for the condensor to get hot. The hotter it is, the more efficient it will be.

Our watercooling rads are not terribly efficient, but that's just because the temperature difference between the coolant and the ambiant air is very low.

|PuNiSh3R| · 06-18-2002, 10:23 AM

Yes.. but the colder I keep the condensor the colder the evaporator will get and faster it will cool.. which is what I need since I only have a 1/20 HP compressor.. it's not very strong.. just enough to do the job.. but I need to cool the condensor grill more.. and since I got the condensor grill out of the frige last night.. the temp on the evap went to -18F in an hour.. it NEVER got colder then 5F and it would take an hour to get to that.. I got to 5F in less then 30 minutes.

The condensor in this is copper tubing that winds around to the right side.. winds around to the top.. then to the left side.. then back to the compressor. I have a pic.. I suppose I could put them up. Check for the new topic..

(Pics of phase change)

_Mike_ · 06-18-2002, 07:13 PM

Well, I've never heard of water cooling the condensor (in this type of situation), but I HAVE seen it done, and it works quite effectively. The example I saw, simply submerged a copper coil into a pan of water, like you mentioned before. However, after about 15 minutes, the water was too warm to provide much cooling. If you were to setup a watercooled loop, with a pump and heater core, then it would probably work very well. The noise from a Panaflo on the heater core would most likey be very quiet, and exactly what your looking for.

Also, if you've got the money, parts, and balls, you could setup a "chain" of phase-change systems, in which the evaporator from one system (copper coil in 5 gallons of coolant) cools the condensor of another. In that case, we are talking extreme temperatures.

One final note, make sure you provide adequate cooling of your compressor as well, usually a nice fan will do, maybe 2 120s, or a small desk fan.

|PuNiSh3R| · 06-18-2002, 09:07 PM

Interesting.. I am thinking of a water cooling or air cooling design using PVC tubing and some type of tornado effect..

Yea.. I'd just have to buy another one of these friges..

But anyway.. I suppose if I cool the condensor enough that this thing actually works.. I'll have an extra radiator.. the one I was using now.. although I will need a pump... unless I just have the bucket of water up high and try to use gravity..

I know bout the compressor.. I find that just a small flow of air over it works for keeping it cool and letting it run a non-stop duty cycle.

I do believe I am going to use an extra AT case I have here to old the compressor and condensor..

I was going to use my current super cube radiator as a chiller.. send the cold frige water through it after it went through the cpu and video card.. and send a low volume of air through it.. so I'd get cold air out the other side and have it flow down into my case.. which I would seal off.. keep it a close loop air system.. it would work rather well. don't u agree?

_Mike_ · 06-18-2002, 11:12 PM

Well, if your talking about the evaporator, DO NOT use the SuperCube. You might be thinking about the massive surface area over copper tubing, but it is not the same. Let me explain:

When normally using the SuperCube for watercooling, you are transfering the heat into the air, in this case more surface area with the hot water (and air), the better.

Now, when your trying to transfer the heat from your coolant from the evaporator, you are transfering the heat into a liquid. And for some reason (I can't recall the scientific reason) the ideal enviroment involves the same amount of contact area on both sides of the evaporator. So, if you had 200 fins on the outside of the tubing, you would want the same number of fins (and size) on the inside. This is why basic copper tubing in a coil shape works the best. Also, the evaporator should be twice as big as the condensor.

Hope this helps. . .

06-18-2002, 01:18 AM	#1
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Water cooling my condensor Thinking of water cooling my condensor in my phase change setup.. It will take MUCH fan power to cool it down.. to much noise for me.. Any suggestions on how I should water cool would be nice.. I am thinking of just using a bucket.. maybe 2 5 gallons or something and having the grill sit right in the water.. but it does get quite hot when the evaporator is under load.. The thing is.. once I finally put this setup on my machine.. the frige will NEVER turn off.. if it does.. I am going to let it sit and cool the water down to below 20F before I turn my machine on.. when I turn my PC off.. the frige stays on.. so I expect water temps when I wake up in the morning to be very close if not below 0F. As long as the water stays cold.. the evaporator can handle it and the condensor grill doesn't get hot.

06-18-2002, 08:37 AM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Not sure if condensor was meant to be used immersed. You talkin' bout the hot rad, right? You can use a very large fan and run it very slowly. These things are usually designed to run without any kind of fan anyways. Alternatively, I'd try a blower, but then you'd have to encase that rad, at least partially. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-18-2002, 08:38 AM	#3
Dix Dogfight Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 128	Don't know if i understand you correctly, but here's my 2 cents. Just placing the condensor in a bucket of water will only make the water boil after a while. And i don't think the phase change system works well when the condensor is at 100C. Therfore you must use a pump and a radiator with a fan to keep the water cold enough. And you have acomplished nothing. Because the fan is still there, making noise, and you have only added another thermal interface betveen the condensor and the air. Cooling the water with excess cold from the phase change won't work because the you are trying to cool the phase change with it self. And for that to work you need a 'perpetuus mobile'. Hmm.... maybe DD sells those cheers __________________ If it ain't broke, fix it. Setup: Dual Duron 1100 \| Voodoo 3 2000 \| Addtronics W8500(WTX) \| Eheim 1250 \| Car radiator \| 2 Innovatech WB \|

06-18-2002, 10:17 AM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It's beginning to sound like a rebuild... Definitely the immersion thing won't work. I'd go with the blower, and your tube/box idea. BTW, it's normal, and actually very good for the condensor to get hot. The hotter it is, the more efficient it will be. Our watercooling rads are not terribly efficient, but that's just because the temperature difference between the coolant and the ambiant air is very low. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-18-2002, 08:53 AM	#4
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Yea.. I understand I would need a rad and pump and all.. Thinking of turning the condensor into a spiral shape and putting it inside of a piece piece of PVC pipe.. then having the fan on each side.. maybe adding fins to the opening of the pipe to create the tornado effect inside which will take air in better and use it more efficiently... like that thing you can buy for your car.. and put into the air intake..

06-18-2002, 10:23 AM	#6
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Yes.. but the colder I keep the condensor the colder the evaporator will get and faster it will cool.. which is what I need since I only have a 1/20 HP compressor.. it's not very strong.. just enough to do the job.. but I need to cool the condensor grill more.. and since I got the condensor grill out of the frige last night.. the temp on the evap went to -18F in an hour.. it NEVER got colder then 5F and it would take an hour to get to that.. I got to 5F in less then 30 minutes. The condensor in this is copper tubing that winds around to the right side.. winds around to the top.. then to the left side.. then back to the compressor. I have a pic.. I suppose I could put them up. Check for the new topic.. (Pics of phase change)

06-18-2002, 07:13 PM	#7
_Mike_ Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 29	Well, I've never heard of water cooling the condensor (in this type of situation), but I HAVE seen it done, and it works quite effectively. The example I saw, simply submerged a copper coil into a pan of water, like you mentioned before. However, after about 15 minutes, the water was too warm to provide much cooling. If you were to setup a watercooled loop, with a pump and heater core, then it would probably work very well. The noise from a Panaflo on the heater core would most likey be very quiet, and exactly what your looking for. Also, if you've got the money, parts, and balls, you could setup a "chain" of phase-change systems, in which the evaporator from one system (copper coil in 5 gallons of coolant) cools the condensor of another. In that case, we are talking extreme temperatures. One final note, make sure you provide adequate cooling of your compressor as well, usually a nice fan will do, maybe 2 120s, or a small desk fan.

06-18-2002, 09:07 PM	#8
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Interesting.. I am thinking of a water cooling or air cooling design using PVC tubing and some type of tornado effect.. Yea.. I'd just have to buy another one of these friges.. But anyway.. I suppose if I cool the condensor enough that this thing actually works.. I'll have an extra radiator.. the one I was using now.. although I will need a pump... unless I just have the bucket of water up high and try to use gravity.. I know bout the compressor.. I find that just a small flow of air over it works for keeping it cool and letting it run a non-stop duty cycle. I do believe I am going to use an extra AT case I have here to old the compressor and condensor.. I was going to use my current super cube radiator as a chiller.. send the cold frige water through it after it went through the cpu and video card.. and send a low volume of air through it.. so I'd get cold air out the other side and have it flow down into my case.. which I would seal off.. keep it a close loop air system.. it would work rather well. don't u agree?

06-18-2002, 11:12 PM	#9
_Mike_ Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 29	Well, if your talking about the evaporator, DO NOT use the SuperCube. You might be thinking about the massive surface area over copper tubing, but it is not the same. Let me explain: When normally using the SuperCube for watercooling, you are transfering the heat into the air, in this case more surface area with the hot water (and air), the better. Now, when your trying to transfer the heat from your coolant from the evaporator, you are transfering the heat into a liquid. And for some reason (I can't recall the scientific reason) the ideal enviroment involves the same amount of contact area on both sides of the evaporator. So, if you had 200 fins on the outside of the tubing, you would want the same number of fins (and size) on the inside. This is why basic copper tubing in a coil shape works the best. Also, the evaporator should be twice as big as the condensor. Hope this helps. . .

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