Go Back   Pro/Forums > ProCooling Technical Discussions > General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat

General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 06-19-2002, 09:52 AM   #1
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default Help me with my leak!

Hey,

I can't find my damn leak!

I have an eheim 1250, maze2, a gpu block for my geforce 3 from dangerden and a heater core from autozone. Silicon 1/2" tubing and metal clamps on all, all tight. I built an airtrap that is connected to the eheim using clear pvc. The trap rises about 4 inches above the return with a plastic cap. I lose about 2 inches a week. I have blacklights installed and dyelight and cannot find any leaks anywhere. I have even used paper towels to try and catch any drops which would show up with the dyelite.

Any thoughts? System has been running for almost 6 months.

I read on the forum while searching for leaks that one guy had a similar problem and it was his cap. Should I use silicon threading on it?

Also, I was thinking what about that radiator sealant used in cars - safe/ or will it hurt my pump/system? Anyone ever try it?

Thanks - Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 10:11 AM   #2
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

I wouldn't try sealant. it'd damage the pump.

If you don't have a leak that you can see, you might be loosing coolant by evaporation. You don't want to seal the res, but you can put a floating lid, to minimize the evaporation.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 10:18 AM   #3
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Bigben2k,

Any leads/more info on a floating cap, I never heard of it but am willing to try anything.

Thanks - Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 10:43 AM   #4
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

It's pretty easy, just find something that floats (ball or styrofoam) and stick it down the res. The idea is to cover as much of the surface of the coolant as possible, without restricting the float from going up and down.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 11:00 AM   #5
chazz469
Cooling Savant
 
chazz469's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 150
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
You don't want to seal the res, ...
Why not?
__________________
"I believe that the moment is near when by a procedure of active paranoiac thought, it will be possible to systematize confusion to the total discrediting of the world of reality"
-Salvador Dali

AMD XP1600+ @1790MHz and rethinking my cooling....
MAZE3 --> DD Cooler Cube --> Eheim 1048
512MB PC2700 DDR
MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU
2x 20GB Maxtor in RAID 0
1x 30GB Maxtor --> WinXP
GF3 Ti200 @ 240/499
chazz469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 11:25 AM   #6
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

The volume of coolant will change with the temp. It's good to allow the air in the res to flow in and out. It's not necessary to seal the res.

There is an instance where you might want to seal the res, and that's where it is not at the top of your system. It'll work either way, but if you spring a leak anywhere above the res, then everything would flow out of the res, and spill in your case.
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 11:52 AM   #7
chazz469
Cooling Savant
 
chazz469's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 150
Default

OK, now I gotcha. I'm using an outside electrical junction box for my res at the moment, with the lid and gasket. But it's not air-tight. So I guess it serves the same purpose. But it's also at the top of my system.
__________________
"I believe that the moment is near when by a procedure of active paranoiac thought, it will be possible to systematize confusion to the total discrediting of the world of reality"
-Salvador Dali

AMD XP1600+ @1790MHz and rethinking my cooling....
MAZE3 --> DD Cooler Cube --> Eheim 1048
512MB PC2700 DDR
MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU
2x 20GB Maxtor in RAID 0
1x 30GB Maxtor --> WinXP
GF3 Ti200 @ 240/499
chazz469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 01:04 PM   #8
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Bigben2K,

Do you really think it is evaporation causing my water loss - tbru the cap in the top of the filling tube/res? It is a plastic screw on that is pretty tight. They only place other than there could be a leak is the rad but there is never any sign of it under it (checking with black light/dyelite).

Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 01:07 PM   #9
MeltMan
Cooling Savant
 
MeltMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: KS
Posts: 374
Default

My res is completely airtight. I have never had a problem.
__________________
MeltMan
Lurker Supreme!
MeltMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 01:33 PM   #10
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Here is a crummy pic of my res:


Last edited by garetjax; 06-19-2002 at 01:38 PM.
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 02:27 PM   #11
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

Whoa... I had to step away from my monitor to see that!!!

That amount of loss could be from evaporation, but if you have a screwed on cap, then it's more likely that you have a leak. You'll have to look closer...
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 03:22 PM   #12
morphling1
Cooling Savant
 
morphling1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 468
Default

You can't find any leaks you say. Have you considered, that you still have air in the system, it could be that your air trap doesn't work too well, try moving your case a little while the pumps is running, if you can hear anything from the pump, that could be cavitation from air bubles still in the system. So maybe you just bleed air very slowly.
morphling1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 03:42 PM   #13
WebMasta33
Cooling Savant
 
WebMasta33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 526
Default

Another thing to note is that if your threads arn't sealed, you can have air evaporate out of the seals slowly. A simple pipe thread sealent would do the trick, but you can't use it on wet threads.

Also, having a sealed res is no problem, yes, water does change volume slightly with temperature, however, air is compressable, so the air will just compress, no big deal.
__________________
==========
--Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition)
--AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x)
--768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB)
--Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490
--Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD
--Audigy
--Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250
===========
WebMasta33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 03:52 PM   #14
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Hey,

I moved my case around and no noise. Besides, I have had this problem since I set it up and this case has been to several lan parties so it has been moved around a lot.

Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 04:00 PM   #15
jtroutma
Cooling Savant
 
jtroutma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SLO, CA
Posts: 837
Default

Try putting some plumbers tape on your cap threads and then tightening it. That will make sure that you have a much better seal than just pipe threads. BTW I loose some water in my res. as well, about 1/2" per week due to evaporation (need another radiator to keep the water temp below 30C to avoid that)
One thing to check is to take the cap off your res. and look inside the cap for water dropplets. That will tell you if water is evaporating or not and then depending on how much your threads dont seal, how much water you are loosing.

Just a suggestion.
__________________
Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10)
OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings)
DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D
SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs
LSI Express 500 (128MB cache)
OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU
ATI X850XT PE (Stock)
DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator
Eheim 1250
jtroutma is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 04:08 PM   #16
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Hey,

I just checked, no water droplets on the bottom of the cap. Totally dry. Now does that mean it is evaporating or not evaporating?

Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 04:33 PM   #17
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

It would mean that it is not, according to jtroutma (who I trust).

You just might have air coming in and out of the system. If you can't find the leak, then just drop it!
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 04:35 PM   #18
jtroutma
Cooling Savant
 
jtroutma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SLO, CA
Posts: 837
Default

That usually means that it is NOT evaporating but some evaporation may still be present (however not enough to loose a significant amount of water)

hmmmmmmmm..........

I would check ALL connections again and reclamp them again. Maybe even do what BigBen was suggesting and pressure test your radiator with a bike pump.....
__________________
Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10)
OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings)
DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D
SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs
LSI Express 500 (128MB cache)
OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU
ATI X850XT PE (Stock)
DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator
Eheim 1250
jtroutma is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 06:10 PM   #19
Cyco-Dude
Cooling Savant
 
Cyco-Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 836
Default

what pump do you have? is it sealed?
Cyco-Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-19-2002, 06:22 PM   #20
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Hey,

Eheim 1250, yes its sealed, really well. My clear pvc airtrap/fill tube is attached to it with pvc cement. I then put a layer of plumbers goop around it for added protection.

I have dyelite and black lights all in my box and never see any leaks.

I am really stumped.

Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-20-2002, 01:01 AM   #21
redleader
Thermophile
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az
Posts: 1,264
Default

Quote:
Try putting some plumbers tape on your cap threads and then tightening it.
On PVC? I doubt it will help much.

Those pipes don't look like you used PVC cement, at least the stuff I've used. Did you use primer as well?

Also I'd check the gearbox clamps. IME they tended to leak ever so slowly. My old system bleed away about 3/4 an inch a week until I replaced them with better clamps. The problem was they clamped really tight, but not evenly and some coolant slipped by under the actual box part.
redleader is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-20-2002, 01:52 AM   #22
Brad
Thermophile
 
Brad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nuu Zeeelin
Posts: 3,175
Default

air is evaporating through your silicone tubing
__________________
2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans

2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water
Brad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-20-2002, 07:59 AM   #23
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Redleader,

I used regular pvc cememt to connect the parts, but when I tested the system in the bathtub for 2 days it leaked - the pvc airtrap leaked - so I applied a coating of plumbers goop around the outside of the joints and that stopped the leaking.

Brad,

Does that new type of tubing - tygon allow vaporation as well?

Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-20-2002, 08:18 AM   #24
gmat
Thermophile
 
gmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: France
Posts: 1,221
Default

Nope it's special to silicon. Actually silicon tubing is meant to carry gases, not liquids because it's porous (and not chemically stable / inert). Ppl use it in watercooling because it's very soft and bends well.
gmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-20-2002, 10:08 AM   #25
garetjax
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mass, USA
Posts: 48
Default

Hmm,

I think I'm gonna switch to tygon, if I'm gonna redo all my connections I might as well just switch tubing to see if it is evaporating from the silicon tubing.

R-3603 bends better right? I have some tight bends going from my gpu block to a T.

Garetjax
garetjax is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C) 2005 ProCooling.com
If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...