Phase Change Water Chiller

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-14-2002, 10:06 PM

Well, I finished my phase change unit tonite.. after MANY MANY re-designs and what not.. I finally finished it.. Cost.. well Sh!t.. All I know is I could probably OWN HOME DEPOT RIGHT ABOUT NOW!

Either way.. next time I tackle this task it will be much easier and straight through.

I was able to empy into the system the little bit of freon I had left.. Unfortunatly I have no more freon. Went to K-mart tonite but they were all out. They had it on sale for 3.50 for a 12oz can..

Yea well.. Tomorrow I will go to wal-mart.. The little bit of freon I put in though was enough to test the solder points on the system.. and I heard no hissing.. and the gauges stayed good.. Tomorrow I will finish filling the system and make sure all is well.. If all tests out good.. then I will make the case for my unit.. Blow another like 3 bux on a can of spray paint.. and then a few bux at radio shack for AC rocker switches..

Wire up the thermostat.. Wire up both of the pumps and the compressor.. put a nifty handle on the case.. and bam! oh and 2 80MM rheostat fans on the condensor..

If anyone wants pics of it.. just IM me..

IceFoundry

jaydee · 08-14-2002, 10:52 PM

Pics would be good. If you want to make a write up to I will post it on my site. Looking for DIY type material for my site.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-14-2002, 11:03 PM

JD

If you have AIM

IM me

icefoundry

jaydee · 08-14-2002, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by |PuNiSh3R|
JD

If you have AIM

IM me

icefoundry

Sorry, I don't use AIM.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-14-2002, 11:38 PM

MSN Messanger?

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-15-2002, 12:55 AM

Thinking I might just use R290 (propane) now for my system.. Get 25lb's of it for only 6 bucks.. the regular propane.. like you use on your gas grill..

koslov · 08-15-2002, 01:33 AM

What about using this:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=1998

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-15-2002, 10:26 AM

kick ass

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-15-2002, 12:23 PM

Pics are kinda crappy quality..

I am going to Wal-Mart soon to get freon.. I was thinking of just using straight R-290 (propane) or a mix of 290 and 134A to get better performence.. Depending on how this thing works I might just do the mix of 290 and 134a.

I'll post numbers as soon as I get em!

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-15-2002, 03:03 PM

System works.. I'm still tweaking it.. but it's very nice.. very cold

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-15-2002, 07:50 PM

Soon after I put my last post up my system went wacky.. Don't ask me .. I believe it was the cap tube.. got a block in it.. or it wasn't open enough and it was freezing shut maybe .. I don't know.

Either way.. I re-did my cap tube.. it was poorly done last time.. I just found a way to do it nice and clean.. and have a nice little hole.. so I set everything back up and now I am filling it and monitoring it all.. making sure I get a nice large amount of freon in so it can handle a big heat load.. Temps are at 24F.. but still going down.. it's taking a while.. which is fine.. I want to pack this thing with freon and I want to make sure my PSI's don't go wacky like last time..

The radiator I am using is one strong bit.. I must of had a good 300PSI in that sucker.. that's 150PSI over regulation for R-134a!

Either way.. I re wrapped the cap tube as well.. then re-did the hole.. things seem to be working good now.. Just slowly adding freon.. I could of already had the system to -18F.. except it would of had no capacity for heat load.. wouldn't of been enough freon flowing through the system.. so I just keep adding it.. slowly.. watching the PSI.. the more freon the better.. gives you a larger heatload because you have a continuous stream of freon into the evaporator.

If anyone has questions.. ask away.

jaydee · 08-15-2002, 07:55 PM

If you can, get a close up of each part. I am headed out of town for about a month starting Monday and will not be able to get on the net. Maybe when I get back will hit you up on a few pics and some results. Sounds like a coooool project.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-16-2002, 10:06 AM

I'll see what I can do for you.

I just did a heatload test on the system.. nothing is insulated yet.. I used a 172w pelt..

The temps went up slowly to 73F.. then I turned the pelt off.. and the temp of the water started to drop pretty quick..

I am still fine tuning my freon charge.. and I need to insulate the resevior..

My maze2 has a leak in it.. so I opened it up.. I will take some pics of it.. I need to clean it out and then put it back together

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-16-2002, 01:07 PM

Well my Maze2 HAD a leak in it

I ended up heating the block up so much that it just slid apart.. lol

Anyway I cleaned it out thoroughly and then I put it back together.. no more leak

Let's just say the solder they had in there plus the solder I ran around the outside... and the clamps that I used to make sure it was together nice and hard while I soldered it.. well it all worked wonderously

Muwahaha! i'll take a pic of it.. I took a pic of the block when it was apart as well..

My phase change system is working good.. so far.. I haven't put any heatload on it yet.. still tweaking the freon charge

ViperSTD · 08-16-2002, 02:09 PM

I don't believe that you want to mix r290 and 134. If the compressor was deisgned for 134a the seals will dryout and crack if you run 290 due to oil incompatibility. You can run small amounts of 134a in a r22 (290) systems without many problems. Compressors are designed to only run a specific type of refrigerant. Therefore using the wrong combination can have bad results.

I don't know too much about HVAC though. I like the bennifits of r290 though. If you can, run it. It is so much better efficiency-wise, it is enviromentally friendly, and it isn't toxic when mixed with water or burned!

Good luck. What are the specs of the compressor?

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-16-2002, 03:14 PM

Uh.. r290 is propane.. r134a is propane as well.. with additives to make it non-explosive.. So therefor running 290 with 134a is not a problem.. You can run straight 290 as well.. It works better then 134a..

Once again

R-290 = Propane (same kind you use in your grill)

R-134a = Propane with additives to make it non explosive

It's just a Daewoo 1/20HP compressor.. nothing special

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-16-2002, 09:25 PM

Well.. It's unfortunate but it seems that a 1/20HP compressor is.. well very.. very weak..

I am going to go hunting this garbage night for an AC unit.. or a dehumidifer with a 1/8HP to 1/4HP compressor in it..

From what I hear.. You can stick R290 in an R22 compressor with no problems..

ssjwizard · 08-17-2002, 03:05 PM

ok punisher you need to have some issues worked out man... ok first 300PSI your insane thats going to take your low side temp and put it ofer a chair and get it from behind!. ok yes more freon means more heat load your absolutly right with that one. as you increase your high side preasure your low side preasure goes up and raises the boiling point of the freon DUH same exact reason that the freon becomes a liquid at 150 psi... if you do go streight R290 you will need to add a shot of R34 to it to add weight. R134 not only has chems in it to make it less flamable its also added to increase molecular weight for compression factor. if you want more freon in your system make your condensor bigger simple as that.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-17-2002, 03:44 PM

Hey nice to see you Wiz.. except.. your post.. Didn't like that to much..

I know all of this.. And my condensor is already huge.. 1/2" tubing.. It doesn't matter.. the compressor isn't strong enough.

I can run straight r290 and it will still be better then 134a..

I plan to use 45% 134a and 55% 290 though..

I have an R22 air conditioner sitting in my garage.. I am going to play with it.. see how it works.. then I am going to evac it and fill it with r-134a.. to see how it performs..

remember that 300PSI on my high side? That was a guess.. and the reason I was having that is because I had a block in my cap tube.. which I took care of.. now everything works fine in the system.. except the compressor isn't strong enough to do a damn thing.

I am going out garbage huntin to find me a better compressor.. one that is small.. yet like 1/6HP or better.. no more then 1/3HP

Limeygreg · 08-17-2002, 03:54 PM

|PuNiSh3R|

How about this ???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1758403229

This one would be my preference though

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1759325635

There was actually a guy on there selling some surplus units from Grainger that he had but I can't find them now.

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-17-2002, 04:38 PM

The second auction.. lol that guy is in my home town!

damn..

Anyway I ain't spending no money on damn refrigeration stuff.. I have the knowledge to just yank stuff out of the garbage and put it together..

I have decided to use straight R290.. it gets colder then 134a.. it has no oil in it.. so it is very compatible with an R22 compressor.. plus it's CHEAP!

ssjwizard · 08-17-2002, 05:09 PM

pun the thing i was tring to point out when i mentioned that they add some of those chems to r134a to add weight is r290 has compression issues. what i would sugest is that you give it a shot of pure r134 no oil just to add a little weight im talking like 1:6 ratio of r134 to r290 it will bring the boil temp up about 4-5C that way but it will reduce the hell on your comressor so you can run a lower high side preasure

|PuNiSh3R| · 08-17-2002, 05:57 PM

The hell on my compressor?

Propane is just a light gas.. that's the only problem.. but who cares.. not like I am buying my compressor.. it'll be fine

ssjwizard · 08-17-2002, 09:03 PM

well its a two way road, yes you can probably run it without the R134 and the propane wil have a lower boil point but it takes a higher head preasure. if you add the r134 it raises the boil temp BUT takes lower high side preasure and as i said its a two way streed lower high side means lower low side preasure meaning more efficancy out of the refridgerant possibly resulting in a better temprature overall.

BTW: i did noticed you said you were going to run like 45% r134 that may be a bit more than needed you will only get like a -29C temp with that under GOOD conditions. id say more like 15% R134 and 85% R290 will be a bit more efficant.

maskedgeek · 08-17-2002, 10:11 PM

just let the kid screw up, maby he will learn not to be so anal retentive...

08-14-2002, 10:06 PM	#1
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Phase Change Water Chiller Well, I finished my phase change unit tonite.. after MANY MANY re-designs and what not.. I finally finished it.. Cost.. well Sh!t.. All I know is I could probably OWN HOME DEPOT RIGHT ABOUT NOW! Either way.. next time I tackle this task it will be much easier and straight through. I was able to empy into the system the little bit of freon I had left.. Unfortunatly I have no more freon. Went to K-mart tonite but they were all out. They had it on sale for 3.50 for a 12oz can.. Yea well.. Tomorrow I will go to wal-mart.. The little bit of freon I put in though was enough to test the solder points on the system.. and I heard no hissing.. and the gauges stayed good.. Tomorrow I will finish filling the system and make sure all is well.. If all tests out good.. then I will make the case for my unit.. Blow another like 3 bux on a can of spray paint.. and then a few bux at radio shack for AC rocker switches.. Wire up the thermostat.. Wire up both of the pumps and the compressor.. put a nifty handle on the case.. and bam! oh and 2 80MM rheostat fans on the condensor.. If anyone wants pics of it.. just IM me.. IceFoundry

08-15-2002, 12:23 PM	#9
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Pics are kinda crappy quality.. I am going to Wal-Mart soon to get freon.. I was thinking of just using straight R-290 (propane) or a mix of 290 and 134A to get better performence.. Depending on how this thing works I might just do the mix of 290 and 134a. I'll post numbers as soon as I get em! Last edited by \|PuNiSh3R\|; 08-15-2002 at 12:25 PM.

08-17-2002, 03:54 PM	#20
Limeygreg Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA. Posts: 20	\|PuNiSh3R\| How about this ??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1758403229 This one would be my preference though http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1759325635 There was actually a guy on there selling some surplus units from Grainger that he had but I can't find them now. Last edited by Limeygreg; 08-17-2002 at 04:07 PM.

08-14-2002, 10:52 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Pics would be good. If you want to make a write up to I will post it on my site. Looking for DIY type material for my site.

08-14-2002, 11:03 PM	#3
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	JD If you have AIM IM me icefoundry

08-14-2002, 11:38 PM	#5
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	MSN Messanger?

08-15-2002, 12:55 AM	#6
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Thinking I might just use R290 (propane) now for my system.. Get 25lb's of it for only 6 bucks.. the regular propane.. like you use on your gas grill..

08-15-2002, 01:33 AM	#7
koslov Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Posts: 264	What about using this: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=1998

08-15-2002, 10:26 AM	#8
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	kick ass

08-15-2002, 03:03 PM	#10
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	System works.. I'm still tweaking it.. but it's very nice.. very cold

08-15-2002, 07:50 PM	#11
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Soon after I put my last post up my system went wacky.. Don't ask me .. I believe it was the cap tube.. got a block in it.. or it wasn't open enough and it was freezing shut maybe .. I don't know. Either way.. I re-did my cap tube.. it was poorly done last time.. I just found a way to do it nice and clean.. and have a nice little hole.. so I set everything back up and now I am filling it and monitoring it all.. making sure I get a nice large amount of freon in so it can handle a big heat load.. Temps are at 24F.. but still going down.. it's taking a while.. which is fine.. I want to pack this thing with freon and I want to make sure my PSI's don't go wacky like last time.. The radiator I am using is one strong bit.. I must of had a good 300PSI in that sucker.. that's 150PSI over regulation for R-134a! Either way.. I re wrapped the cap tube as well.. then re-did the hole.. things seem to be working good now.. Just slowly adding freon.. I could of already had the system to -18F.. except it would of had no capacity for heat load.. wouldn't of been enough freon flowing through the system.. so I just keep adding it.. slowly.. watching the PSI.. the more freon the better.. gives you a larger heatload because you have a continuous stream of freon into the evaporator. If anyone has questions.. ask away.

08-15-2002, 07:55 PM	#12
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	If you can, get a close up of each part. I am headed out of town for about a month starting Monday and will not be able to get on the net. Maybe when I get back will hit you up on a few pics and some results. Sounds like a coooool project.

08-16-2002, 10:06 AM	#13
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	I'll see what I can do for you. I just did a heatload test on the system.. nothing is insulated yet.. I used a 172w pelt.. The temps went up slowly to 73F.. then I turned the pelt off.. and the temp of the water started to drop pretty quick.. I am still fine tuning my freon charge.. and I need to insulate the resevior.. My maze2 has a leak in it.. so I opened it up.. I will take some pics of it.. I need to clean it out and then put it back together

08-16-2002, 01:07 PM	#14
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Well my Maze2 HAD a leak in it I ended up heating the block up so much that it just slid apart.. lol Anyway I cleaned it out thoroughly and then I put it back together.. no more leak Let's just say the solder they had in there plus the solder I ran around the outside... and the clamps that I used to make sure it was together nice and hard while I soldered it.. well it all worked wonderously Muwahaha! i'll take a pic of it.. I took a pic of the block when it was apart as well.. My phase change system is working good.. so far.. I haven't put any heatload on it yet.. still tweaking the freon charge

08-16-2002, 02:09 PM	#15
ViperSTD Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA Posts: 9	I don't believe that you want to mix r290 and 134. If the compressor was deisgned for 134a the seals will dryout and crack if you run 290 due to oil incompatibility. You can run small amounts of 134a in a r22 (290) systems without many problems. Compressors are designed to only run a specific type of refrigerant. Therefore using the wrong combination can have bad results. I don't know too much about HVAC though. I like the bennifits of r290 though. If you can, run it. It is so much better efficiency-wise, it is enviromentally friendly, and it isn't toxic when mixed with water or burned! Good luck. What are the specs of the compressor?

08-16-2002, 03:14 PM	#16
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Uh.. r290 is propane.. r134a is propane as well.. with additives to make it non-explosive.. So therefor running 290 with 134a is not a problem.. You can run straight 290 as well.. It works better then 134a.. Once again R-290 = Propane (same kind you use in your grill) R-134a = Propane with additives to make it non explosive It's just a Daewoo 1/20HP compressor.. nothing special

08-16-2002, 09:25 PM	#17
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Well.. It's unfortunate but it seems that a 1/20HP compressor is.. well very.. very weak.. I am going to go hunting this garbage night for an AC unit.. or a dehumidifer with a 1/8HP to 1/4HP compressor in it.. From what I hear.. You can stick R290 in an R22 compressor with no problems..

08-17-2002, 03:05 PM	#18
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	ok punisher you need to have some issues worked out man... ok first 300PSI your insane thats going to take your low side temp and put it ofer a chair and get it from behind!. ok yes more freon means more heat load your absolutly right with that one. as you increase your high side preasure your low side preasure goes up and raises the boiling point of the freon DUH same exact reason that the freon becomes a liquid at 150 psi... if you do go streight R290 you will need to add a shot of R34 to it to add weight. R134 not only has chems in it to make it less flamable its also added to increase molecular weight for compression factor. if you want more freon in your system make your condensor bigger simple as that.

08-17-2002, 03:44 PM	#19
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	Hey nice to see you Wiz.. except.. your post.. Didn't like that to much.. I know all of this.. And my condensor is already huge.. 1/2" tubing.. It doesn't matter.. the compressor isn't strong enough. I can run straight r290 and it will still be better then 134a.. I plan to use 45% 134a and 55% 290 though.. I have an R22 air conditioner sitting in my garage.. I am going to play with it.. see how it works.. then I am going to evac it and fill it with r-134a.. to see how it performs.. remember that 300PSI on my high side? That was a guess.. and the reason I was having that is because I had a block in my cap tube.. which I took care of.. now everything works fine in the system.. except the compressor isn't strong enough to do a damn thing. I am going out garbage huntin to find me a better compressor.. one that is small.. yet like 1/6HP or better.. no more then 1/3HP

08-17-2002, 04:38 PM	#21
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	The second auction.. lol that guy is in my home town! damn.. Anyway I ain't spending no money on damn refrigeration stuff.. I have the knowledge to just yank stuff out of the garbage and put it together.. I have decided to use straight R290.. it gets colder then 134a.. it has no oil in it.. so it is very compatible with an R22 compressor.. plus it's CHEAP!

08-17-2002, 05:09 PM	#22
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	pun the thing i was tring to point out when i mentioned that they add some of those chems to r134a to add weight is r290 has compression issues. what i would sugest is that you give it a shot of pure r134 no oil just to add a little weight im talking like 1:6 ratio of r134 to r290 it will bring the boil temp up about 4-5C that way but it will reduce the hell on your comressor so you can run a lower high side preasure

08-17-2002, 05:57 PM	#23
\|PuNiSh3R\| Foo's Been Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 255	The hell on my compressor? Propane is just a light gas.. that's the only problem.. but who cares.. not like I am buying my compressor.. it'll be fine

08-17-2002, 09:03 PM	#24
ssjwizard Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new mexico Posts: 21	well its a two way road, yes you can probably run it without the R134 and the propane wil have a lower boil point but it takes a higher head preasure. if you add the r134 it raises the boil temp BUT takes lower high side preasure and as i said its a two way streed lower high side means lower low side preasure meaning more efficancy out of the refridgerant possibly resulting in a better temprature overall. BTW: i did noticed you said you were going to run like 45% r134 that may be a bit more than needed you will only get like a -29C temp with that under GOOD conditions. id say more like 15% R134 and 85% R290 will be a bit more efficant.

08-17-2002, 10:11 PM	#25
maskedgeek Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: poop Posts: 145	just let the kid screw up, maby he will learn not to be so anal retentive...

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