Water Maintenance Q-- n00b

[Axle]

I'm thinking of going water more for the quiet than performance; right now I'm running a 1.2 T-bird, Shuttle AK31, 1024 DDR2100, GF4 Ti4200 128MB Gainward Golden Sample, and two really, REALLY hot WD HD's (40&20). Right now sys temp is 102, CPU is 130.

I was going to go with the spir@l, if I hadn't just read about the cracked top, which got me to thinking. How often do I need to check if everything's alright in there?!? I'm thinking the swifty or Maze3 now, becuase I would be the LAST person to notice I'd just ruined $500 in junk. I've read people checking all the WC connections everyday, necessary?

Thank y'all!

[bigben2k]

With the poly barbs, you shouldn't have to worry about anything.

As a good plan, you'd want to do a few things:
1-pressure test your rig. Put pressure in the system, and look for leaks. If it passes a pressure test, odds are everything will be ok.
2-use hose clamps. I don't care how tight you think those hoses are on that barb, if the barb is damaged, a leak can occur.

What most people do here, is a 24hr test run (with the computer off). That usually brings up the issues that need immediate attention.

Once in a while, you'll want to check the coolant, to make sure that its color didn't change. If it did, then there's galvanic corrosion, so you have to keep using an additive, and replace it regularly, depending on how fast your coolant changes. That means flushing the system out.

The next thing is microbial infestation. If your water turns cloudy after 6 months or so, then you need to flush and refill. Running rubbing alcohol should clean things out. Some additives will prevent this from happening.

It's a good thing to keep the cover open, for the first couple of weeks that you are running the rig, just to keep an eye on any potential problems that might come up.

[Axle]

Wonderful to know, thank you much, BigBen!!!

So after everything is connected up and checked out for the first few weeks, I can close it up and just check the water, clamps, ect, every 2 weeks or so?

-----
Here's how it's looking to me, can you tell me what you think?
>Swifty MCW462-U
>Danger Den GF4 Block
>Via Aqua 1300 or Mag Drive
>A Radiator from Here
>$10 electrical box from HD as Resivoir (4x4)
>Tubes/barbs/clamps also from HD

Do you think anything should go? It's either the Swifty or Maze3, but by the time I get a coppertop for the Maze, I'm almost at Swifty price, and I'd rather own something with a no-leak guarantee, no?

I'ver heard the DD GF4 is the best, sooo.....

I'm not sure about the radiator, though. I might try to go with no radiator at all, just lots & lots of copper tubeing, but I haven't worked that one out yet.
The pump I really would like to be dead silent, which is why I'm considering the Mag, but if I can't score it cheap enough off ebay, I'll go Aqua. I considered the Rio for a bit, but that got seriously bashed, didn't it?

Thanks again to everyone!!!

[bigben2k]

Consider a window, it'll make the checkup a lot faster!

The Via pump is good, but some people haven't been lucky with it. I guess it's because they use it in a rig that's very restrictive, and the pump just can't take it, hence the rattling. In your case, if you stick with that rad, you should be fine.

As for that rad, well, honestly it wouldn't be my first choice, but it will work. It looks like a really well designed unit, but the problem is that it's Aluminium, so you're going to have to deal with the galvanic corrosion, something that you want to avoid, if you can.

If you have a case already, give me the dimensions of the area where you want to put that rad, and I'll spec you out a heatercore that'll fit.

Between the Maze3 and the new Swiftech, I'd go with the Swiftech.

[phiber]

you should get the 86 chevette heatercore for $20 something its a very good heatercore

[Axle]

It honestly didn't look all that good, just was the size that I needed. Since I'm going for quiet, I was thinking of emulating the Swifty Quiet Power barebone case ($370 no thankyou!), and put the radiator in the back with 2 Panaflos (good idea?). I'm using the Antec 1040SX(well, rip off of it).

I also don't know what to do about size. 3/8 or 1/2? I think I'd rather go with 1/2, but that takes a special order of the block, which might be more. I'm just not sure.

Hey, that would be really, REALLY wonderful if you'd do that for me, BigBen, I'd be in your debt forever.

'86 Chevette? Well that wasn't a good car at all

Thanks again, everyone!!!

[Heavy_Equipment]

>A Radiator from Here

Two things...

Tranny coolers SUCK for this application, you want a heatercore.

My personal stamp of approval goes to a 1984 Chevette core. I used mine for a year before I went to water chilling, and it worked great. One of the pipes is flared up to 5/8"or so, but if you cut it off just before the flare, you have 1/2" in and out.

The second point I wanted to make...

I'd skip the GF4 mod for now, since you are going to take enough risks with your cpu to start, while you learn. As you said, this project is more for noise control, so modding an expensive 3D card isn't really a priority is it? Just ask yourself, "can I afford to break it?"

Especially with you using a T-bird, I slaughtered a few t-birds and durons in the early days, with chipped cores, so you might want to keep some funds in reserve...just incase.

I recommend wading into this...not swan diving.

I started into water because of noise as well...two years later, I've got something most mad scientists would be proud of, and although quiet has always been the motivation, I love the extra OC'ing too.

[bigben2k]

I really don't care which case you use, and I can't tell where in the case you're going to put that core, so get your tape measure out, and let me know!

Keep in mind that you'll want to shroud that, so on top of the 1 in thick fan, add another inch for space between the core and fan (shroud), and figure about 2 inches for the core itself.

I disagree with Heavy_Equipment. If your goal is to eliminate the fans, then watercooling the GPU is not unreasonable. If your confidence level is low though, then you might consider the GPU WB as an add-on, for later.

Go ahead and use 3/8 for the GPU block, and 1/2 otherwise. If you want to stick to 3/8, that's up to you: it's reasonable for the purpose of making a system quiet (1/2 would be better for an overclock).

[Heavy_Equipment]

Yeah, the GF4 block was my personal opinion. Take it anyway you like.

The rad is popular consensus though.

[Axle]

Sorry about that, I hit the wrong button and was trying to edit it fast enough :o.

In my Antec, I could conceivibly free up 12x6x6 in the lower right if I moved my floppy & HDs into the 5 1/4 bays. That'd make 2 80mm Fan holes facing out the front, which I could make in 120s no problem. I'm concerend about noise from the fans leaking out the front, but I think I'd be better NOT to put the radiator right above the MB.

Heavy_Equiptment: No, I really, really, really can't afford to break my GF4. I just got it not 2 months ago for $170, if It broke, I'd probably cry.

I've already lost a Duron 850 (put the drink down so you can laugh at me proper, now :o): a few years ago I took the HSF off while it was running just to make sure it wasn't too hot. I honestly thought It might be a good idea to take it off & have a look.

I think it's all going to come down to money if I get the GF4 block, I'll get everything nessiary to run a system first, then the Swifty, get everything running well, and by then I should be able to afford the DD block. Eventually I'd like to cool my HD & NB too, but who knows when that'll be.

Another question about the pump: Something with 300+ gph would be best for the swifty? Or would lower work better?

Thanks again, all.......

[bigben2k]

You could go for the one I posted in this thread

It's 10 3/4 inches high, by 5 5/8 in. wide and 2 inches thick. The inlet is 3/4 and the outlet is 5/8. The dimensions might not be exact, as the tanks on those things are outside of those measurements.

Drop by your local auto part store, and ask to see it, so that you can measure it.

Let us know!

[sunblade]

Hello Axle, I'm the one who had a spir@l crack on me, and I'm sorry that I made you paranoid. There isn't much to be worried about as long as everything is well thought out. Like BigBen, I suggest to go with plastic barbs on your waterblock if you want a poly top. This goes for both the maze3 and the spir@l/TC-4. Dtek is developing annodized aluminum tops for the spir@ls if you want to wait for a metal top, and I know DangerDen offers copper tops on their maze3s.

When I first started watercooling, I was worried I'd trash my equipment beyond repair, too. But everything kept chugging along and now it's like old hat for the most part. For the first time, try running your watercooler without any equipment until you feel ready (24hrs, a couple days...). Then you can attach it to your comp when you're confident.

[shaft01]

Originally posted by bigben2k
With the poly barbs, you shouldn't have to worry about anything.

A couple of the horror stories I heard was not related to the use of metal barbs and leaking.......instead the leaks developed along the seal between the lucite top and the copper block.....

[djskinnyb]

I'm waiting on Dtek's Non-Poly tops to make the plunge into water cooling myself.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by shaft01
A couple of the horror stories I heard was not related to the use of metal barbs and leaking.......instead the leaks developed along the seal between the lucite top and the copper block.....

...as a result of the barbs being screwed way down, pressing against the channel walls. Any other aberration is from user finger problems...

[Axle]

Not at all, Sunblade, I'm very glad you did. The new spirals may have no problems at all, but why play with fire?

I'm still going with Swifty, I do like that no leak guarantee . I know the spiral did just a gif better(like 1c), but I like the swiftech's design. Also, by the time I get a coppertop on that $42 Maze3, I'm up in 462u zones, no?


The 84 Chevette sounds good to me (1/2 in & out seems easier to me) but I checked on AutoZone(.com) and they list it at around $80? I mean for $80 I could get a BIX. Heatercore4u.com is $50, but still.. I thought I could pick up a nice core for $20. Oh, BTW, It looks exactly like the DangerDen 'Heater Core"

I don't want to come across as ungracious; everyone's help here has been invaluable. I'm very fortunate to have been shown this forum; I really can't thank y'all enough.

T H A N K __ Y O U ! ! !

[bigben2k]

Try a NAPA store in your area, or any other car parts store!

Here in Texas, there's O'Reilleys (also on-line), and a few more, just in my town.

Bonus: you get to see it before you buy it.

[FRAGN'STIEN]

Hi axle. I agree with phiber and Heavy_Equipment on the heater core. I own the case your talking about and if you take out the bottom drive rack and holder, which will require you to drill out the rivets, the core will fit perfectly.

[FuzzyFace]

In my small town we have 2 auto parts stores (Kragen auto parts and AutoZone) that are part of large chains.

They both buy heater cores from the same manufacturer, Go/Dan, and their prices are nearly the same.

I checked the price for the 84 Chevette at Kragens on their internet site and it was $29.99.

[Heavy_Equipment]

My first heater core (mid 80's Ford Bronco...I believe) was new from the parts store. The "shove-it" heater core was $10 at the wreckers. (that should be $5 US )

I took it to the coin carwash, sprayed out the fins, and then blasted it through the tubes, back and forth, until the water was clean running. Worked great, and is ready and able to be used again should I need it.

Hmmm, err, um, scratch all that...

$80 you say? Have I got a deal for you! $40 and you can have mine...that's half price!

[Axle]

I must have just been looking at the wrong thing, then, sorry. :o

I'll go on into auto zone sometime this week and see what I can find, and than that'll about do in my money for the month. This is going to take a long, painfull, time to get everything.

The other thing I'm getting is a pump from These people; Greg's a nice guy & has great prices on pumps. Don't know if y'all have heard it. Only thru email & phone, but it's worth it to save $5-15 to me.

Heavy_Equipment, sound like a deal Love the .sig, by the way.

Fragin, good to know it'll all fit OK. Was a little worried I wouldn't have enough room for a bit there.'

Oh hey, what do you think about this thing right here? ONLY $70 so what a steal. Just thought it was a good idea.

Thanks again, all

[airspirit]

Don't worry about the noise from the 120mm fans. If it turns out to be too loud, then put a potentiometer in line on the power line and mount that to your case somewhere. When your system is set up, "tune" the potentiometer to give you the right balance of noise to cooling ... plus it'll be a conversation piece on the front of your case and allow for quick tuning while doing OC testing and when lanning (suddenly you're in a garage that is about 110F with 15 stinky teenagers and you need extra cooling). As far as galvanic corrosion and algae growth, try to use similar metals throughout your system. If you use a copper block, use a copper based radiator. Same thing with aluminum. Your res/air trap and pump should have no metal components, and using nylon/pvc barbs whereever possible will negate nearly all galvanic corrosion in your system. There is no better way to solve that problem. As far as algae goes, use water wetter or something similar, or if you're on the cheap, pour about 1-2 tbsp per L of isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) in your coolant and it'll kill the bugs without dropping performance. With a setup like that, if you pressure test it and recheck all fittings repeatedly before installation AND make sure there are no places in your case that can cut your hose due to vibration, you should be able to go weeks in between checks. I haven't opened my case in almost three weeks except to briefly show off the guts a couple of times. The easiest way to leak check is to build a "snorkel" style air trap into your system and mount it externally to the back of your case. All you have to do to check for a leak is pop the cap and check the coolant level. I do that weekly. I hope that helps a little.

[airspirit]

That cooler would just give you problems. Try cooling it (remember, your computer isn't going down the road at 80 MPH) with fans ... not going to work.

[Heavy_Equipment]

Originally posted by airspirit
...(remember, your computer isn't going down the road at 80 MPH)....

LMAO!!!



Now that's funny!

True enough, tranny coolers are meant to cool 80C oil, down to 60C, with road speed air. They aren't going to work very well at the 40C range, especially with crappy air flow.

The reason I say crappy...good flow would mean noise, and if we look at your very first sentence in this thread...

[Axle]

Quite true! I'm going to stop being a pain posting bad ideas, sound OK?

Well, Here's how it's stacking up. Just for the record now.

>Swifty CPU clock
>DD GF4 block
>Mag drive 350gph
>Electrial box as res
>tubes, barbs(plastic!),clamps
>'84 chevette core from NAPA
>two crossed fingers
>advil

I'm planning on getting the parts that won't go out of style first (pump>rad>box>tubes) all the while lurking here looking for the latest gizmos. I'd imagine in 2 months when I can afford a few blocks, the Swiftech'll up and gone out of season

I'm sure I'll have plenty of other stupid questions, but I'll ask Google first.

I can't thank you enough, tommorow I buy my first appendage--this is actually going to happen!!!

a big from a very grateful yankee.

>>]Lex