Silver or Copper nitrate

[Tuff]

Both are water soluable..would they work with cooling?

Tuff

[8-Ball]

Perhaps they are water soluble, but not in very high concentrations.

I don;t think you are going down the right track for your super coooling fluid.

The nanofluids developed at argonne national laboratories are however a potential improvement.

[redleader]

Most metals are only conductive when they are in metallic form. Ionic compounds (even those formed from metals) do not have the same electrical properties because of the large band gap present in them.

[bigben2k]

You ought to look for something else than "water". Like I said, there may be other complex compounds that may perform better than water, if you google.

We discussed this before, but it's been some time... searching... here it is!

[Axle]

Not to state the obvious, but your water/fluid would obviously become more dense. Your pump would possilbe A) make a funny noise, in a bad way and/or B) break.

[8-Ball]

Originally posted by Axle
Not to state the obvious, but your water/fluid would obviously become more dense. Your pump would possilbe A) make a funny noise, in a bad way and/or B) break.

Not very much due to the very low concentrations.

8-ball

[pHaestus]

I am assuming you are thinking of an additive to your coolant to act as a biocide. I am not exactly sure how much that you would add, but I am guessing it would be only a few mg per liter. Both compounds should be totally soluble in this scenario and certainly wouldnt affect the viscosity of the water enough to make any difference. A word of caution though. If you use AgNO3 make SURE not to use tapwater. I am pretty sure that you can test for Cl by adding AgNO3 to water. AgCl precipitates out (this compound is not all that soluble).

If you are going for addition of chemicals, why not sodium Azide? That is a much better biocide...

[8-Ball]

Originally posted by pHaestus
I am assuming you are thinking of an additive to your coolant to act as a biocide. I am not exactly sure how much that you would add, but I am guessing it would be only a few mg per liter. Both compounds should be totally soluble in this scenario and certainly wouldnt affect the viscosity of the water enough to make any difference. A word of caution though. If you use AgNO3 make SURE not to use tapwater. I am pretty sure that you can test for Cl by adding AgNO3 to water. AgCl precipitates out (this compound is not all that soluble).

If you are going for addition of chemicals, why not sodium Azide? That is a much better biocide...

I think you'll find that Tuff is on a quest for a coolant with enhanced thermal properties, hence the addition of Silver and Copper based salts.

8-ball

[pHaestus]

Oh then he is not gonna get there with a little copper or silver nitrate I dont think

[hara]

3M green fluid...what about it?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by hara
3M green fluid...what about it?

Tell us more! (or link us)

[Neomoses]

does anyone have a ball mill or something else that could pulverize metal shavings? 'cuz I've got about 10 cubic yards of aluminum and copper chips in my shop from making waterblocks. I'd be willing to give this a shot if I can get the metal pulverized small enough.

Maybe I'll just build a small ball mill myself and stock it with some 1/2" steel balls. hmm, just another project to put in the list.....

I could really see all these little bits of metal clogging up a radiator They would have to be ground EXTREMELY small and sifted through tiny screens to ensure their size. Anyone have access to equipment like this?

[BillA]

dumb, as in seriously stupid

what is the lube for the (mag drive) pump shaft ?
and the plastic is rated for slurry service ?
jeez

one is tempted to ask for what great occasion are the brains being reserved ?

[8-Ball]

Originally posted by Neomoses
does anyone have a ball mill or something else that could pulverize metal shavings? 'cuz I've got about 10 cubic yards of aluminum and copper chips in my shop from making waterblocks. I'd be willing to give this a shot if I can get the metal pulverized small enough.

Maybe I'll just build a small ball mill myself and stock it with some 1/2" steel balls. hmm, just another project to put in the list.....

I could really see all these little bits of metal clogging up a radiator They would have to be ground EXTREMELY small and sifted through tiny screens to ensure their size. Anyone have access to equipment like this?

Extremely Small is an understatement.

Particles this small cannot be made by any pulverising technology. This idea only works if you have particles of only a few nanometres across. Any larger than this and you get problems of coagulation and sedimentation.

8-ball

PS 100th post

[redleader]

Metals conduct well because of the lattice structures they form. Since each atom has only a weak ability to hold its valance electrons, they form loose bonds that are delocalized. That is each electron can absorb thermal energy and use it to escape from an atom. The electron then passes through the material carrying the heat with it.

If you atomize the metal, you break up its lattice and thus it looses the ability to conduct heat so well. Just look at Artic Silver. It has 1% of the conductivity of pure silver, dispite the fact that its 75% silver (iirc).

Metal ions are an even worse since they're entirely different substances. In these theres more or less a complete transfer of electrons from one ion to another. If you try and dissolve metal in water you will dissolve it and then react it with dissolved oxygen or chlorine or something else.

[Neomoses]

Originally posted by unregistered
dumb, as in seriously stupid

what is the lube for the (mag drive) pump shaft ?
and the plastic is rated for slurry service ?
jeez

Glad to see you think outside the box often, bill. I understand your concern about the mag-drive shaft lube. Many mag-drive pumps have a plastic bushing riding on either a ceramic shaft. I would imagine that running this slurry will "impregnate" the plastic with aluminum/copper powder very quickly, but how much of an effect will that have on pump life? Will aluminum or copper powder have much of an effect on a ceramic shaft?

I've been running one of these pumps in a flood coolant system without problems on my mill for about 6 months now at about 72 hours per week. It routinely pumps chips smaller than 0.030" without problems, and sometimes larger chips pass through it as well.

"...one is tempted to ask for what great occasion are the brains being reserved ?"

One might ask the same thing about investing $15,000 into thermal testing equipment, but I'm sure that we've both learned to filter out the naysayers.

I do believe this is possible to do in a ball mill. I worked at a cement plant for about 2 years and I have seen rock crushed (in ball and rod mills) to such a fine powder that it would pass through a T-shirt almost as if it were water. Waste fuels, including the occasional contaminated steel barrel, were also crushed in ball mills in much the same way. I'm sure I could look up screen sizes if you're really interested. Talking with pyrotechnicians, many metals are powdered this way to make the nice colors you see in fireworks. Other things such as makeup, beauty powders, and spices are all crushed in ball mills. They are very efficient.

although this may be a total waste of time, it is very cheap to try out. Let's say I destroy a pump and 5 feet of tubing. I'm out $15. That's pretty cheap, IMO.

[BillA]

heh, well you certainly have me there
this 'testing' investment is quite beyond bizarre

if the particles are not the same density as the fluid there will be problems related to that
nor do I consider ~6 mos life to be acceptable as a WCing solution

the reason that nanospheres are attractive is that their density can be controlled