Dimensions on my WW-copy???

[pelle76]

Hi!

I'm building my first watercooling and am about to make my own waterhead/block. I've looked att a couple of blocks but the one I like best is the WW design.

The base of the block will be copper and the I will ad a couple of layers of plexi to direct the flow and ofcourse also to work as a lid

So now to my question. Please look at the pictures on the link below.

What dimensions should the copperbase have. I figured a slab of 10mm copper. Then I cut the fins out. the fins will be 7mm high wich means I will have a bottom left in the block of 3mm. The space between the fins will be approx 1mm and that will also be the thicknes of each fin.

I'm also thinking of creating some kinda turbulence around the fins by drilling with 1.2mm between the fins. This will give the fins a nice waveform as I've seen others here like.

Please look at the pictures. What I'm after is comments for improvement. Comments about the thicknes of the copperbase and fins are most welcome because thats the thing I don't know a shit about. If U claim something to be wrong though, I want a good motivation so that I know u know Ure stuf...

http://w1.500.telia.com/~u50014558/WWcopy/

I know this is not a new design and I don't claim to be the first with any of this stuff. I just wan't to build a nice, goodperforming handmade waterhead.

[HMB]

3mm base is too thick, cathars is under 1mm so i've heard... I think you should narrow the nozzle also. Of course how narrow depends on your choice of pump. High pressure pump --> more narrow nozzle. Low pressure pump --> wider nozzle.

[Balinju]

imo a 3mm bp is too much for this kind of block. also i would change the nozzle shape

/edit, bet me by a minute :shrug:

[hara]

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=6389

[pelle76]

Ok... I'll redesign it a bit. thnx

Considering the material. If the copperblock works out fine for me, I'm going to make it out of silver I think. I've got a friend that is a silversmith

But back to copper:
What copper should be the best to use. I mean, copper can be hard or soft depending on how it were manufacured.
I'm thinking:

Soft copper.... better contact with core
Hard copper: Easier to work with and I can make the base thinner.

Are there big differencies in the heatconductivity between copper and copper?? (If U know what I mean)

edit: Since this is my first watercooling I'm going to use a Sicce Nova. It was cheap. I'm building the watertank so that I can submerge a bigger pump later on though.

[pelle76]

Updated dimensions:

http://w1.500.telia.com/~u50014558/W...dimensions.jpg

[Penti]

Looks pretty good, what cpu are u useing?

The Tbred should have an sligthly thicker base then 1mm, 1mm is pretty optimize for the Palomino core. between 1 and 2mm(i remember morphling say he got a few degres better with 1.5mm then 1mm base) should be good for this. The nozel i think should be a little differnt. But i havent any experience with nozel design so i cant say how u should do it..

[pelle76]

Originally posted by Penti
Looks pretty good, what cpu are u useing?

thnx.

Im using a palomino XP2000+

Added a picure showing the core location.

http://w1.500.telia.com/~u50014558/W..._core_base.jpg

[hydrogen18]

Originally posted by pelle76
Ok... I'll redesign it a bit. thnx

Considering the material. If the copperblock works out fine for me, I'm going to make it out of silver I think. I've got a friend that is a silversmith

But back to copper:
What copper should be the best to use. I mean, copper can be hard or soft depending on how it were manufacured.
I'm thinking:

Soft copper.... better contact with core
Hard copper: Easier to work with and I can make the base thinner.

Are there big differencies in the heatconductivity between copper and copper?? (If U know what I mean)

edit: Since this is my first watercooling I'm going to use a Sicce Nova. It was cheap. I'm building the watertank so that I can submerge a bigger pump later on though.

i dont think it would make much of a diff...but if u I would just get harder copper, mill it(or however u plan to do it), then anneal it. If u have a acetelen or oxyacetelene torch this is easy. Heat till it glows red hot then let it cool. The black stuff will flake off due to diff expansion rates and all the other black stuff can be flaked off with a knife. Now u have a layer of cupric oxide over the copper, just use a light hand and some sand paper(cupric oxide is very delicate) and basically just wipe it off.

[Penti]

Originally posted by pelle76
thnx.

Im using a palomino XP2000+

Added a picure showing the core location.

http://w1.500.telia.com/~u50014558/W..._core_base.jpg

okey looks good, but remember that the core is offsett by lika 2.5mm shouldnt do any differnt in this design i think though..

[pelle76]

Originally posted by hydrogen18
i dont think it would make much of a diff...but if u I would just get harder copper, mill it(or however u plan to do it), then anneal it. If u have a acetelen or oxyacetelene torch this is easy. Heat till it glows red hot then let it cool. The black stuff will flake off due to diff expansion rates and all the other black stuff can be flaked off with a knife. Now u have a layer of cupric oxide over the copper, just use a light hand and some sand paper(cupric oxide is very delicate) and basically just wipe it off.

Yep... I've made this once with a copperplate for my boat. It was some cheezy alloy that was used in a press befor I got hand on it. It was rock hard I tell U. Didn't think copper got that hard ever.
Anywayz... I Ust heated it upp with a nice torch of mine and when it had cooled i smashed it against a doorpost Ust to see if it had made any difference... It dident even 'CLONK', Ust folded itself neatly round the corner

[Cathar]

The White Water blocks were made out of C110 copper.

[Since87]

Originally posted by hydrogen18
i dont think it would make much of a diff... [Hard or soft copper - Since87]

...but if u I would just get harder copper, mill it(or however u plan to do it), then anneal it.

First off, this list of thermal conductivities shows hard drawn copper as having 89.5% of the thermal conductivity of annealed copper. That's a bigger difference than between annealed copper and silver.

And yes, I agree the way to go is to get hardened copper for machinability and then anneal it.

If softness of the copper is an indication of effective annealing, then you don't need acetylene. A charcoal grill will work fine for annealing. Just get a dozen coals glowing pretty good, and set the copper piece on them. This kind of treatment leaves copper about as soft as it gets. (I don't know whether the annealing temperature needed to achieve softness, also achieves the higher thermal conductivity. This is a good subject for someone to google.)

I'd guess that if you used a kettle type grill where you could seal off the outside air (to some extent at least) you might be able to minimize the oxidation of the copper.

If anyone is considering trying this. Practice with some heavy copper wire first to get a feel for the process. Bend the wire some to get it work hardened, and then find out how long it needs to be on the coals to become soft. (I'd suggest 30 seconds as a starting point.)

[LiquidRulez]

Originally posted by Penti
okey looks good, but remember that the core is offsett by lika 2.5mm shouldnt do any differnt in this design i think though..

Its actually 1.27mm off center

[Penti]

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Its actually 1.27mm off center

okey thanks for correcting

[pelle76]

Since87:

I think it is about 400 C. I took a course at the university about metals. U know hardening and so on, looking on their microstructure (cornsize and stuff). But I'm not sure, and I can't find the book right now. But I think it was 400... Or was it 800??

Anywayz. If someone would want to google this they should searc for a fasediagram for copper. That will show how copper reacts (had or soft, not conductivity though) to heat treatment.

Where did U read about the difference in conductivity for copper and copper?

Edit: I will use my acetylen/air torch. I don't like the idea of putting the copper in charcoal. The copper could take up some of the coal or other stuf and the result would not be as pure copper as before.

[8-Ball]

(I don't know whether the annealing temperature needed to achieve softness, also achieves the higher thermal conductivity. This is a good subject for someone to google.)

I'll ask someone in the department next time I'm in.

To be honest, I probably should know the answer to this, though the majority of stuff we cover is related to either electronic materials or high strength alloys/composites/polymers/ceramics.

8-ball

[Since87]

Did some googling last night and my impression is that the annealing temperature can vary widely depending on alloy, so my experience with annealing copper electrical wire, may not be very applicable to annealing C110.

One thing that seems to be a big issue is oxygen absorption. (The main reason I was suggesting a 'sealed' up charcoal grill, to provide a low oxygen environment.)

Anyway, I'll start a new thread on this subject.

[Kwissus]

One thing about using an Oxy-Acetylen torch is that you can lessen the amount of oxygen in the mix. (wich is good)

[bigben2k]

C110 copper is the way to go, unless you have a cheaper source for something else. Silver will yield a very small improvement which you might be able to measure.

Your fins are too tall, at 7mm. Cathar originally went with 5mm, based on his thermal simulation, and eventually dropped it to 4mm.

Your nozzling plate needs to have a smoother transition. Your current configuration amounts to the equivalent of a couple of orifice plates, which is more restrictive than an actual nozzle.

Cathar went with a baseplate of "less than 1.0 mm", if it's any help.

Are you planning on molding this block together, or machining it into shape?

Here's a tip (useful as a guide) on the nozzle:

[pelle76]

Thnx BigBen

No soldering. The baseplate is copper. The rest of the layers are plastic.

I'm going to round the nozzle edges to minimize flowrestriction. And also, A 90 degre bend for the water to flow past will make som unwanted turbulence meking the flow unpredictable.

As U can se in the pics I've updated the design after The first time U gave me tips.