MCP600 (aquaXtreme) vs. MCP650

[PieEyedPiper]

Which is actually better? I gather that the MCP650 replaced its little brother mainly due to reliability issues. However, the aquaXtreme's are garaunteed for 2 years or so..so I don;t think thats really an issue for me.
I've seen on recent graphs that the MCP 600 actually outperforms the MCP650 by a slim margin in a setup using an MCW6000 block (and unknown other components).

So that being said would the MCP600 variety be a better option, as they are on par with performance and are quieter too? It seems like the pump of choice being the happy medium of noise/performance.

I would be using it in
BI Pro 2 or 3 rad
Swiftech res or fill/bleed
MCW6000-A
and some 3/8" ID clearflex or tygon.

and a possible future gpu block.

[BillA]

a push, with a res (less restriction) perhaps the MCW650
either is fine
look at size and noise (price ?)

[PieEyedPiper]

They're of similiar size, thats not too concerning for my application. I suppose I may as well just go with the AquaXtreme because its quieter. And not only is the res cheaper than the fill/bleed but I like the idea of having the option to have a larger ID tube leading to the inlet of the pump from the res.

[bellevegasj]

I'm planning on a very similar setup. BI 3 Pro(thinner than the Xtreme, if it will fit into a v1200 case), MCP 600 and Caths G5. I'm going to test it with and without a 6800 GPU block and if the temps are much higher with it, I'll get another MCP 600, 2 smaller radiators and run 2 seperate loops. I'm really hoping that the BI3 fits into the case I want and temps aren't too high with an overclocked 6800.

Also, I'm going to try 7/16 ID tubing.

[fhorst]

Originally Posted by unregistered

a push, with a res (less restriction) perhaps the MCW650
either is fine
look at size and noise (price ?)

noise might be an issue... the MCP600 makes quite some noise .
how are the numbers compared to the 650/600?
- 650: 33 ~ 34 dBA in a quiet room @ 2'
- 600: 31 ~ 34 dbA in a quiet room @ 1', after 48 hrs of operations ........
according to the info from www.swiftnets.com............
real life tells me it (the 600) makes more noise then a standard P4 cooler (for a 3.2), hell even more sound then 4 PAPST fans at 12v.... (reason for RMA??)

But how about power consumption :shrug: ?
the MCP600 uses 9w, the 650 uses 24w.....

[Hansfragger]

Originally Posted by fhorst

noise might be an issue... the MCP600 makes quite some noise .
how are the numbers compared to the 650/600?
- 650: 33 ~ 34 dBA in a quiet room @ 2'
- 600: 31 ~ 34 dbA in a quiet room @ 1', after 48 hrs of operations ........
according to the info from www.swiftnets.com............
real life tells me it (the 600) makes more noise then a standard P4 cooler (for a 3.2), hell even more sound then 4 PAPST fans at 12v.... (reason for RMA??)

But how about power consumption :shrug: ?
the MCP600 uses 9w, the 650 uses 24w.....

Great post! - Hard data + in this case the all important "subjective impressions". There are a lot of people searching for that sweet spot- the optimum balance between performance and noise. There is an exciting thread by Cathar here
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10467

[bobkoure]

The quietest pump I've ever used is the Eheim/Innovatek HPPS, which is quieter than the 1046 (so under 18dB)
It's impeller and housing are pretty much the same as the 1046, so you'd expect it to be very underpowered, but judging from the temps I've been seeing its performance is better than the 1048.
Makes a good low-noise combo with the Swiftech 5000 or 6000 series and the thin BI rads. According to the graphs, the whitewater actually does fine with this kind of flow as well (haven't used one with a HPPS, can't speak from experience.
I've got a Storm on its way to me and plan to put it in a box with a HPPS - will report (although I don't plan to do an actual test which would involve a number of re-mounts). The pump is a "drop in" replacement for the 1046 and 1048 so I could change pumps and see if there was a change without introducing other variables - not as easy with a waterblock.
All that said, Iwaki pumps are supposed to be both powerful and quiet. I'll probably pop for one of them for the next system I build that's for me There's the beginnings of a group buy for a 12V Iwaki (that would have to be special ordered). Look here for the thread.
I guess it's one of those "high-performance, quiet, not-breathtakingly-expensive; choose two"

[fhorst]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

I guess it's one of those "high-performance, quiet, not-breathtakingly-expensive; choose two"

I did by going for "high-performance, quiet" the MCP600.....
I have 2 of them .. one to break, and one to run... as I can not wait for replacements if things break down. my PC is a 24/7... always on.

breathtakingly-expensive..... well.. 180 dollar... is this breathtakingly-expensive??
it is expensive... high performance and noisy as hell..

And you need to thrust me when I tell you that I have the silent one running, and I'm keeping the more noisy one as a backup.

With 4 12cm fans at 7v I can not hear if the run or not due to the noise of the pump.
at 10v it's about the same level, and at 12v I can hear the fans togeter with the pump.

but if I turn the pump off... ahhh silence.... even with fans at 12v...

problem is I can do this only for about 10 seconds.... then my cpu is getting to hot

[PieEyedPiper]

Thanks for linking that thread, and yes it does seem near impossible to get ALL 3 options (noise/performance/price) in a single package.
Does anyone know the performance difference of an hpps/1046/1048/mcp600 in degrees? any system will do, as long as it was the same for all pumps.
I'd imagine a mcp 650 and mcp600 are near identical for the cpu temp and then somewhat warmer for the rest of the pumps..but exactly how much difference in temps are we talking here? 1C, 3C?

[BillA]

http://www.swiftnets.com/Technical/R...mp-testing.asp
back out the deltaT using the wb's C/W curve fro the various flow rates
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw6000.asp#

now say thank you Swiftech
who else provides this data ?

fhorst
I still think you have a noisy pump, really they are not so bad

[PieEyedPiper]

thank you!
now i just have to find the know-how inside myself to accurately calculate the numbers.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by fhorst

it is expensive... high performance and noisy as hell..

You mean the Iwaki? "noisy as hell"? An RD20? I'm going by spec sheets (actually going on remembered spec sheets - can't find the ones I was looking at a couple of weeks ago).
If it's "noisy as hell" (and assuming that means 23dB or louder) I'm not interested in getting one any more...

[fhorst]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

If it's "noisy as hell" (and assuming that means 23dB or louder) I'm not interested in getting one any more...

- 650: 33 ~ 34 dBA in a quiet room @ 2'
- 600: 31 ~ 34 dbA in a quiet room @ 1', after 48 hrs of operations ........

I guess mine is about 40 dBA

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by fhorst

I guess mine is about 40 dBA

And yours is... an Iwaki?

[BillA]

I think they're 'garbage grinder' MCP600s
not the usual thing, or his ear is tuned differently

[bobkoure]

Interesting.
Do they get louder if you run 'em dry?
From looking at some Iwaki part diagrams, they really depend on water flow - looks like the impeller is almost running on a water bearing (the way that "plain" automotive bearings are actually oil bearings).

Interesting how folks assume what "your" whatever is as well.
Many (many) years ago I worked in a motorcycle shop. Sometimes I'd end up at the parts counter - and a majority of folks looking for parts simply assumed that I would know what make and model they had (or they assumed that an oil pump for one bike would fit any other - but I'm pretty sure this wasn't the case).
Anyway, I got pretty tired of starting all these conversations with "year make and model"? and tried instead "How long is a piece of string?" hoping they'd get the idea - and usually they did. One day, though, when I asked the "piece of string" question, the response I got was "Well... that'd depend on what end you measured from, wouldn't it?" Sorry about the major drift OT, but that comeback always, well comes back to me when someone isn't mentioning an important piece of data that's obvious to them - but not to me...

[BillA]

quite possible, on a MCP600 the impeller sleeve will wear instantaneously -> rattle
'do not run dry' is not on these pumps by accident
unless the pump has a mechanical seal on the shaft, they all require pressure in the pump head to force the coolant/lubricant 'back' around the impeller and out at the pump inlet to lubricate the shaft, or ball

you're a better man than I, I'm unable to deal with the general public on an ongoing basis

[JoeKamel]

Originally Posted by unregistered

you're a better man than I, I'm unable to deal with the general public on an ongoing basis

OT: Be glad. I work at a Home Depot. You should see what people try to pull off when they think that they can do it themselves...........

"Oh I can use this spar varnish on my floor, even though it specifically says on the package not to."

"I can put a 20 amp fuse on 14 gague wire."

"Oh you don't need to use grounding wires, that little grounding screw is all you need."

"Eh, I can safely hold this deck up with 2 inch nails."

God how I wish people would listen.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by unregistered

you're a better man than I, I'm unable to deal with the general public on an ongoing basis

I'm not so sure I can anymore either - the story is from '78 or so, which ahem is a few years back now...

[MaxxxRacer]

bob, iwakis dont put out 40db unless u r un them without water in them.... then they are noisy as all heck. but what moron would do that

[BillA]

anyone thinking they had a no-maintenance system

I've seen lots of ruined Iwaki pump heads in medical equipment cooling units that 'ran dry' after several years

[MaxxxRacer]

bill... ran dry???

[BillA]

where does the coolant 'go' over time ?

DIYers ignore this kind of stuff

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by unregistered

where does the coolant 'go' over time ?

Rhetorical question, I know - but is there such a thing as a material that is both flexible and completely non permeable to water? Even vinyl lets a little through, doesn't it?
If you scroll down to the bottom of this Iwaki MD series PDF there's something called a "self priming chamber" which looks like an integral reservoir to me.
BTW, it's so un-bling that I'm tempted to get one if I ever get an Iwaki pump
And I'd definitely design one in if I was designing an X-ray machine or something, complete with fluid level sensor and alarm. Come to think of it, you could build a level sensor using the same principle they use to show the level in big coffee urns (clear tube up the side). Make the tube clear, float something opaque in it, use an optical switch to "notice" when the float has dropped past a certain point.
It's be cheaper and easier to use a pressure sensor in the pump-out line, but you'd be detecting "damage already done" - using a level indicator lets you bark while there's still plenty of coolant.

[BillA]

"a material that is both flexible and completely non permeable to water?"
no, flexibility seems directly related to permeability, vinyl is quite poor really - but has the required flexibility
no one here likes hard plumbing
Delphi and Apple do though

we have built units with level sensors and alarms (REALLY loud, lol), pump kill, etc.
few DIYers get that far into reliability, not important to them