Old dogs...new tricks (Radiator Mod)

[zews]

Greetings programs

A while back I used to follow these forums religiously, and built my first water system based on the advice of a few names that I still recognize here (Though some seemed to have gone, and many new have appeared). I never posted much at all back then, but found the posts of others to provide more than enough information to get my rig running.

Back then, the Maze 2 was brand-spankin' new, and so I bought one, along with an aquacoil (I), and a Danner 250GPH pond pump. I also found a deal on a 5 pack of Orion 120mm AC fans, and went ahead and bought them. Somewhere along the way, I found a deal on a 500GPH Danner, and picked one up as well, which now serves as my pump (Though it didn't improve my temps one bit!).

The system never performed great...but never terribly. My highest temps under load were never higher than 44C under 'typical' conditions (though some hot days, it has reached 47). I was just at the point where the rig was up and running (and ready for tweaking) when life kicked in, and bogged me down with school work, until just recently (well, one more quarter to go, than MSEE)

Still running my A7V133 with the original water rig, I'm ready to move on, and I'd like to do it in style. I figured a good place to start would be with these new NForce2 2.0 boards, and I'm aiming at subzero TEC cooling...but first things first! I need to get this water rig running as well as it can in hopes that it will eventually be able to dump the heat from at least a couple of ~220W pelts to start (maybe as many as 4-6 eventually)

What I'm wondering is if any of my old WC hardware is still useable (at least for the time being), to get the 2x 220W pelts working at subzero (C) temps (even under load). I'm not so worried about the block as I am about the radiator, as I've noticed from many (old) reviews (and a couple of thermodynamics courses) that the aquacoil isn't the best solution for a radiator in this environment...it's just too restrictive to flow for the desired amount of cooling from air at ambient temps. (These fans couldn't be any more powerful, yet still be tolerable on the ears)

I've seen the design of the Aquacoil 2 in a few places on the web, and was thinking of modifying my current aquacoil to follow suit. I was hoping some of you out there could help me figure out the best way to do this (or at least, just tell me it's not worth it and to get another radiator, or a heater core) But, here's the Idea I had...


The aquacoil is about a 20-pass radiator (approx, don't remember for sure)...and then the Aquacoil II was a parallel config of about 2x10 passes. This (ideally) cuts down the flow resistance in half, and thus, should theoretically double the flow through the radiator (take away some error at the junctions). I'm wondering if it would be worth it to make my own "Aquacoil II" by cutting the tubing at about the 10th pass, and then hooking the 2x10pass in parallel. If this isn't adequate, than what if I cut the 2x10 config into a 4x5 parallel config, thus increasing the flow (though also increasing the error!). Is this clear...does someone understand what I mean? I'll try some ASCII art if it isn't .

More important though, from those with experience, is this worth the work for what I intend to accomplish? Or should I just find an alternative for the radiator?


Good to see this board still running strong!
-Z

[Blackeagle]

A thought,

YOur more powerfull pump could give you much more result for your investment with a MUCH lower resistence radiator.

Rather than doing mods on a older design that is much less effective why not go with a heater core? A single pass heater core would offer both more cooling and lower resistence at the same time.

At: www.leakycar.com

Check out the rad #2-342 which is large enough to allow the mounting of dual 120mm fans (on both sides if you wish or course). This rad isn't hard to set up for computer cooling. Just cut the long tubes down and make a shroud.

This rad could handle several TEC's without issue.

I bought one of these rads just a couple months ago at a local Napa for $30.00.

Good luck.

[MadHacker]

Check out the rad #2-342 which is large enough to allow the mounting of dual 120mm fans (on both sides if you wish or course). This rad isn't hard to set up for computer cooling. Just cut the long tubes down and make a shroud.

About that Rad. Is it copper or alum. based?
I'm also interested in getting a TEC based water cooling system up... Looking at buying all the parts retail... is a litle too expensive.
also i noticed it is 2" deep.. and there are others listed that are 2.5" deep. would that not be better? i.e #2-325

[pHaestus]

I have been looking at a Dangerden Supercube I have lying around and wondering the same exact thing...

[zews]

Thanks for the link Blackeagle....i can find just about any shape i'd want! Probably for a reasonable price as well. Definitely worth looking into. How well would heatercores perform if I were to tie 2 together in series (and then sandwhich a 120mm fan between them)? I'm thinking of going with 2 smaller ones to fill the space where I have the aquacoil mounted now.

The aquacoil radiator is copper tubing with aluminum fins, the fins are pretty fine.

The only problem I would see would be in making the junctions at the split, and original ends. If they're not made right, it could throw off the flow through one of the braches. I'm thinking all of the branches would have to be approximately equal in length.

I was thinking of just making the cut with a dremal (removing about an inch of tubing) and then making the junctions out of vinyl tubing and brass or platic fittings.

I figure I have nothing to lose...the flow I'm getting now just isn't adequate, but I have a feeling this has a lot to do with the fact that it's 3/8 tubing.

[pHaestus]

Keep in mind also that the Aquacoil type radiators have a "sweet spot" at an intermediate flow rate and perform as much as 20% better at that flow than at higher rates.

http://www.thermal-management-testin...issipation.htm

Maybe more flow isnt the solution...

[Sproket]

Actually my AquaCoil II has a bent U tube near one of the barbs, thus slowing down the flow a little. I bought it used like this.
Water still flows faster through this than a dtek rad. My temps are 3 degree higher than Dtek Rad but I dont have a UV Dye problem anymore. To me it worth the 3 degree temp rise.

I have a 1048 pump and my temps are at 98F idle and 105F Load w/ whitewater block.

Im putting a second L1A fan on there and will lower temps back to normal, same as when I had Dtek rad.

[zews]

those plots explain a lot....if I was already past the "hump" with the 250GPH pump, than the 500GPH wouldn't help one bit. I'll have to check my flow rates again with both pumps.

interesting how the heater cores perform though...i think that might be the best long-term solution.

i just figured they designed the aquacoil 2 with the parallel config, perhaps I'll try it anyway next weekend...just to see. I figure if it doesn't work, I can just patch the cut back up with the vinyl, maybe tuck a flow sensor in it.

[Blackeagle]

Ph is right if you stay with that rad, I didn't consider that.

The 2-342 rad is brass/copper, brass tanks and tubes with copper fins.

A good and low cost smaller rad (about the lowest cost) is a chevette one. I've seen posts saying you can get them at auto parts stores for as low as $20.00, not bad, you can get two of them for not much more than one of the 2-342 cores.

I'd suggest you only use that leaky car site to decide on which core might serve you best. You can almost be sure to find a lower price at a local auto parts.

[Sproket]

I went to 4 different Auto stores, Checker, Pep Boys, AutoZone, and some other and nobody had in stock a small heatercore. The smallest I found in Phoenix was 6x7.5 so that equaled 6x9 when including top tank. To big for my case. Without doing a major mod to case.

[MadHacker]

I just plan to pick out a couple heater cores that fit the profile I need (Dual 120mm Fans) then go to the auto wreckers and see how cheep i can pick a couple of them up. Then clean them up.

The 2-342 rad is brass/copper, brass tanks and tubes with copper fins

I'm just curious if they will all be brass/copper

If i have to buy new then i will. but if I can get it for cheeper... I'm all for that. have more money left over for the other parts.

[Sproket]

Remember I have not seen a heatercore that is just brass and copper Only. The have solder inside of there and a good amount to hold the channels to the tanks.

[redleader]

I think North American cores are generally brass/copper. The only aluminum ones I've seen were from Europe, but I haven't exactly looked for an aluminum core much either.

[MadHacker]

Originally posted by Blackeagle

At: www.leakycar.com

Check out the rad #2-342 which is large enough to allow the mounting of dual 120mm fans (on both sides if you wish or course). This rad isn't hard to set up for computer cooling. Just cut the long tubes down and make a shroud.

The mesurments for that heater core is
9-1/2 x 6-1/8 x 2

I have exacly 10" clearence in the YY cube i'm going to get and was wondering if the mesurments listed are for the core only or for the petruding tubing as well?

Thanks

[bigben2k]

I have a 2-304, and it's 9 1/2" tall, not the quoted 8 1/4", because of the tanks.

[MadHacker]

Thanks .
now I know I have to get a core about 2" shorter so about 8".
I just need to find out how wide the drive part of teh YY cube is.
I want to take adavantage of the space in it.

[MadHacker]

Originally posted by bigben2k
I have a 2-304, and it's 9 1/2" tall, not the quoted 8 1/4", because of the tanks.

I get my info on heater cores here and it list the core to be 8" tall
was wondering about the width. does it mach exactly?
it is listed as being 6-1/8" wide.

[bigben2k]

Yeah, it's 6 1/8: no tanks on the sides

[MadHacker]

Any major advantage to running dual rad..
Either in parallel or series?

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by MadHacker
Any major advantage to running dual rad..
Either in parallel or series?

In short, no, there is no major advantage.

There's a minor advantage, and that's a lower coolant temp: you might be able to drop it by another degree or two.

In pelted systems, it's recommended.

[Pyrotechnic]

Aluminum cores are found on mostly newer cars, but the better part of cores out there are brass/copper.