Pump Questions

dantheman · 05-05-2002, 07:18 PM

Well, I toasted my pump last night. It wasn't enough to push the water at all through the pipes. It was going as about a trickle. You can see what it was pushing through by the attatched picture. What should I get now? The old pump was a 700 mag drive. I know I should get bigger, but something that can handle backpressure would be nice. Thanks for any ideas.

Cyco-Dude · 05-05-2002, 07:35 PM

how many gallons / hour can your pump push? (im guessing 700, but your description is kinda vague) how long did it last until it failed?

i see the problem; its pretty obvious. all those 90 degree elbows are murdering your flow!! (heh, 5 waterblocks isnt helping either lol) get some flexible tubing like tygon or silicone, and get rid of all those 90 degree elbows.

what is the ID of your tubing? 1/2" would be best if you can fit it in (but looking at your cramped system, thick-walled 3/8" ID tubing would be a tight fit; 1/2" thick-walled hose would be nearly impossible).

damn, what vid-card do you have?

dantheman · 05-05-2002, 07:47 PM

Ya, I understand all of those points, but it was a box I made out of parts and peices I had laying around. It is a 700 mag drive pump, and those "should" do 700 at 1 ft. I would like to get tygon tubeing, but I am low on cash, and have about enough to get the pump with the money from my tax return.

BTW, its only 4 blocks. Its a voodoo 5 5500 with dual blocks on it and a voltage mod done. The rad is just your normal heatercore. All of the elbows have been bored out with a drill, so they are a little bit better, but I know that kills the flow. Not that much I can do at the moment.

Cyco-Dude · 05-05-2002, 08:08 PM

oops, yeah i meant 4 blocks

perhaps copper elbows would work better (since they are curved, instead of being a sharp 90 degree bend like those elbows).

webmedic · 05-05-2002, 09:58 PM

Well If you can afford it the ehiems are good. And they handle the backpressure well for a setup like that. Anything else may verry well need a 1000gph pump to get the same flow.

ECUPirate · 05-05-2002, 10:10 PM

I would start by reevaluating the hose situation. Even w/ vinyl, I think you could come up w/ a better layout. Use longer runs of hose, and skip the elbows. Just looking at it, you could turn the pump around, and remove the elbow between the pump and the res. Switch the inlets & outlets of the rad so that the barb nearest the camera feeds the CPU block.. you shouldn't need an elbow. You could position the rad or the res 'between' some of the waterblocks to lessen the bend angle on the hose.
Be creative, but lose the elbows.

note: if you do need elbows, get silicon or tygon hose, and use the next size up elbows. ex. for 1/2" ID hose, get 5/8" OD elbows. The hose will stretch, and the larger elbows will reduce the resistance in the system. You could try copper 45 degree elbows, if that would be enough bend... I dunno.

dantheman · 05-05-2002, 10:11 PM

I was looking at those pumps, but I wasn't sure about the backpressure part. I have a huge amount. I was looking at the hydrothruster pumps, but I do not know sizes on them or if they will even fit in my case.

Brad · 05-06-2002, 03:26 AM

your 700gph died through stress, so why bother buying a 1000gph which will run with more stress on it? buy a 150gph if you won't change that setup.

run the cpu block in parrallel with all the other blocks in series in a seperate loop. This will mean much less resistance, and most of the water will still get through the cpu block

TiTch · 05-06-2002, 03:52 AM

If you are sticking with the PVC, try the heatbending instead of 90 degree bits. I tried it and it works a treat. It also makes a more smoother bend.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=2718

dantheman · 05-06-2002, 06:55 AM

ok, you guys convincd me. . . .I shall correct the error in my ways and go to a different type of tubeing and get rid of the 90's. But the question still stands, stick with the mag drives or go with something else.

webmedic · 05-06-2002, 07:32 AM

The Danner mag drives are not that good.

UnaClocker · 05-06-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by webmedic
The Danner mag drives are not that good.

BAH!

Danners are awesome. You just can't force 700gph through 3/8" tubing. That's ludicrous. The pump probably overheated. The pump's get most of their cooling from the waterflowing inside of them.
First of all, get rid of those darn 90 degree bends. You've got so many now that (this IS constructive criticism) it doesn't even look nice anymore. The whole point of a couple 90's here and there is to tidy up the look. You've gone a little too far. Also, for the price you paid for that many 90's, I'm sure you could have afforded 4-5 feet of Silicone or Tygon which will make corners without kinking. Simply getting rid of the 90's would do wonders for your flow rate. Remember, your 90's are fitting INSIDE of your 3/8" tubing, I'd be surprised if the ID of those 90's is much over 1/4".. 700gph or 1000gph, you just can't force much water through 1/4" tubing.. And if you still need a couple 90's with the silicone or tygon tubing, as other's in this thread have pointed out, you could stretch the tubing up over 1/2" 90's, so that the ID of the bend is at least as big as the tubing your running.
Also, next time you buy a pump, get something 350gph or less. Your just adding heat to the water and wasting electricity with a huge pump.

dantheman · 05-06-2002, 11:58 AM

That makes since why a 300 is working well in my other case. I got all the 90's for free. . . . so the price wasn't an issue. I am once again saveing up for fun tygon tubeing (its a bit pricey).

pHaestus · 05-06-2002, 01:27 PM

Don't think Danners are very good for setups with lots of restrictions. On the other hand, this setup may not be amenable to ANY pump that will fit. Tried measuring your actual flow rate? Might be surprised.

I agree with ECU: get some 1/2" barbs and elbows and heat up the ends of the vinyl till it fits over the barbs (boiling water). You can also get some thickwall pvc reinforced 3/8" ID vinyl at home improvement stores that won't kink. Maybe a couple of feet would be enough to remove a few of those 90 degrees.

Why bother water cooling the Voodoo5 and chipset anyway? They are just killing flow with no real benefit (no matter how high you o/c the V5 is is slower than a GF2)

dantheman · 05-06-2002, 03:35 PM

hehe, I know. It was mostly a point of not wanting fans on it. Second point is to state, hey. . . I have a watercooled voodoo.

Those two fans you can see are the only ones there, the PSU was modded with larger heatsincs and they don't really overheat at all. (pulled 400w out of it over a week and it wasn't even that hot) The fan on the top and the one on the rad work off a PWM controller and will only spin up when the temps move up quite a bit.

05-05-2002, 07:18 PM	#1
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	Pump Questions Well, I toasted my pump last night. It wasn't enough to push the water at all through the pipes. It was going as about a trickle. You can see what it was pushing through by the attatched picture. What should I get now? The old pump was a 700 mag drive. I know I should get bigger, but something that can handle backpressure would be nice. Thanks for any ideas. Last edited by dantheman; 05-05-2002 at 07:22 PM.

05-05-2002, 09:58 PM	#5
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	Well If you can afford it the ehiems are good. And they handle the backpressure well for a setup like that. Anything else may verry well need a 1000gph pump to get the same flow. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-05-2002, 10:10 PM	#6
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	I would start by reevaluating the hose situation. Even w/ vinyl, I think you could come up w/ a better layout. Use longer runs of hose, and skip the elbows. Just looking at it, you could turn the pump around, and remove the elbow between the pump and the res. Switch the inlets & outlets of the rad so that the barb nearest the camera feeds the CPU block.. you shouldn't need an elbow. You could position the rad or the res 'between' some of the waterblocks to lessen the bend angle on the hose. Be creative, but lose the elbows. note: if you do need elbows, get silicon or tygon hose, and use the next size up elbows. ex. for 1/2" ID hose, get 5/8" OD elbows. The hose will stretch, and the larger elbows will reduce the resistance in the system. You could try copper 45 degree elbows, if that would be enough bend... I dunno. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan Last edited by ECUPirate; 05-05-2002 at 10:12 PM.

05-06-2002, 03:26 AM	#8
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	your 700gph died through stress, so why bother buying a 1000gph which will run with more stress on it? buy a 150gph if you won't change that setup. run the cpu block in parrallel with all the other blocks in series in a seperate loop. This will mean much less resistance, and most of the water will still get through the cpu block __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

05-06-2002, 03:52 AM	#9
TiTch Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: London, UK. Posts: 64	If you are sticking with the PVC, try the heatbending instead of 90 degree bits. I tried it and it works a treat. It also makes a more smoother bend. http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=2718 __________________ www.gibtek.co.uk

05-05-2002, 07:35 PM	#2
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	how many gallons / hour can your pump push? (im guessing 700, but your description is kinda vague) how long did it last until it failed? i see the problem; its pretty obvious. all those 90 degree elbows are murdering your flow!! (heh, 5 waterblocks isnt helping either lol) get some flexible tubing like tygon or silicone, and get rid of all those 90 degree elbows. what is the ID of your tubing? 1/2" would be best if you can fit it in (but looking at your cramped system, thick-walled 3/8" ID tubing would be a tight fit; 1/2" thick-walled hose would be nearly impossible). damn, what vid-card do you have?

05-05-2002, 07:47 PM	#3
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	Ya, I understand all of those points, but it was a box I made out of parts and peices I had laying around. It is a 700 mag drive pump, and those "should" do 700 at 1 ft. I would like to get tygon tubeing, but I am low on cash, and have about enough to get the pump with the money from my tax return. BTW, its only 4 blocks. Its a voodoo 5 5500 with dual blocks on it and a voltage mod done. The rad is just your normal heatercore. All of the elbows have been bored out with a drill, so they are a little bit better, but I know that kills the flow. Not that much I can do at the moment.

05-05-2002, 08:08 PM	#4
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	oops, yeah i meant 4 blocks perhaps copper elbows would work better (since they are curved, instead of being a sharp 90 degree bend like those elbows).

05-05-2002, 10:11 PM	#7
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	I was looking at those pumps, but I wasn't sure about the backpressure part. I have a huge amount. I was looking at the hydrothruster pumps, but I do not know sizes on them or if they will even fit in my case.

05-06-2002, 06:55 AM	#10
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	ok, you guys convincd me. . . .I shall correct the error in my ways and go to a different type of tubeing and get rid of the 90's. But the question still stands, stick with the mag drives or go with something else.

05-06-2002, 07:32 AM	#11
webmedic Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cheney, Wa Posts: 367	The Danner mag drives are not that good. __________________ www.water-cool.com

05-06-2002, 11:58 AM	#13
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	That makes since why a 300 is working well in my other case. I got all the 90's for free. . . . so the price wasn't an issue. I am once again saveing up for fun tygon tubeing (its a bit pricey).

05-06-2002, 01:27 PM	#14
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Don't think Danners are very good for setups with lots of restrictions. On the other hand, this setup may not be amenable to ANY pump that will fit. Tried measuring your actual flow rate? Might be surprised. I agree with ECU: get some 1/2" barbs and elbows and heat up the ends of the vinyl till it fits over the barbs (boiling water). You can also get some thickwall pvc reinforced 3/8" ID vinyl at home improvement stores that won't kink. Maybe a couple of feet would be enough to remove a few of those 90 degrees. Why bother water cooling the Voodoo5 and chipset anyway? They are just killing flow with no real benefit (no matter how high you o/c the V5 is is slower than a GF2)

05-06-2002, 03:35 PM	#15
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	hehe, I know. It was mostly a point of not wanting fans on it. Second point is to state, hey. . . I have a watercooled voodoo. Those two fans you can see are the only ones there, the PSU was modded with larger heatsincs and they don't really overheat at all. (pulled 400w out of it over a week and it wasn't even that hot) The fan on the top and the one on the rad work off a PWM controller and will only spin up when the temps move up quite a bit.

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