HWLabs "Black Ice" radiator enough for 1.4gHz T-bird??

[krp]

I am scratch-building a socket-A system based on a Gigabyte 7DX DDR mobo. The system will be an Athlon 1.4gHz tbird running continous 24x7, and while I do not plan on overclocking it, I do need to keep it as stable, cool and quiet as possible.

Toward the goal of "cool and quiet", I am using a Lite-On "FS020" case:

which has three 120mm fan mounts as follows: two backboard exhausts, and one lower-front intake, I figure that with low rpm Panaflo FBA12G12L1A fans mounted on rubber grommets, this should provide plenty of case airflow without producing a lot of noise.

The reason I am looking at liquid-cooling: I want to avoid having to use some screamy HSF fan, yet still need to keep that tbird cool and stable in continous operation. I live in steamy, humid Florida, so I would rather avoid using peltier's since condensation would be a major problem here - I am hoping that straight liquid-cooling without a tec will suffice for a 1.4gHz Athlon tbird running normal clock???

Cooling components I am considering so far: Dangerden MAZE2 waterblock:

probably an Eheim 1250 (300gph) water pump, and a copper-cored radiator of a size appropriate for those 120mm fans.

Its the radiator choice that I worry about the most, since it must have sufficient heat dissipation capacity to keep up with the heat from the Athlon and pump, yet still fit into the case, (which while the FS020 is one of the roomier midtowers, is still gonna have that hulking big pump in there too, and I would like to avoid blocking PCI slots or drive bays if I can avoid it.)

The HWlabs "Black Ice" radiator:

looks to be the easiest to fit into the space available, but does it have sufficient heat dissipation capacity for a hot 1.4gHz Athlon??

Assuming the Black Ice radiator can handle the heat load, will it require a higher pressure fan than the Panaflo L1A at only 68 cfm and 3.3mm H20 pressure rating??

I figure if I mount the radiator inside one of the backboard 120mm fans, I could upgrade that one fan to a Panaflo H1A at 100cfm and 6.8mm H2O pressure rating, and the extra noise would be directed out the back anyway.


Any suggestions welcome!

[GuyBFF]

Relax a little, I used to run an AMD T-Bird 1.333 at 1.6ghz / 145FSB / 1.95v without water cooling. This is about 115 watts. Your only looking at around 85 watts with your setup.

CPU temps should be about 20C over ambiant with good air cooling (WBK38 w/Delta, and a 120mm intake / exhaust).

If you run the setup your looking at (the best), you could cool at least 250 watts to within 15C of Ambiant, or yours to about 6c of ambiant (OEM computers usually run 50-55c Core).

For pumps the Eheim is king of reliability (if you got money to burn) but a 1048 will have more than enough flow (160gph IMP) for a system without peltier, and may actually be cooler w/out pump heat and slower flow threw Rad. The Danner Mag-Drive #2 (250gph STD in-line or submersible) is just as long lasting and half price, but remember to add sealant to head gasket (they can suck up air).

As for waterblocks I personally love the DD Maze 2 as they cool best and have an awesome hold-down included (making them relatively well priced)

For Rads your picking the best unit for large Wattage setups (read peltier) but a 6x5 like the BE Cooling standard unit for $30 will cool within 1 or two degrees of this rad even overclocked. If peltiers are in the future then spend the money.

Any decent entry level water cooling solution will cool your crazy 1.4ghz well below the best air cooled units. With the setup above, you can get some 85cfm 120mm case fans (35db type) and sleep also, with CPU around 6-8 degrees C over ambiant room. For you medium quality to best will only yeald 2-3 degrees, cost twice as much and run 2-3 times louder.

[BrianW]

Very informative GuyBFF.

I could use a bit of advise as well. I am setting up a water cooling setup to cool my CPU T-Bird 1.133 maybe oc to 1.3 (DD MAZE II), Chipset (OC-WC 40mm waterblock), and Geforce 2 pro 64 ddr (OC-WC 40mm waterblock). I am using a magdrive 3 (350gph inline), and resecoir. My Radiator (DD 29 fin low flow radiator) will be on top of case suckink fresh air from top of case and exhausting it out the left side. My ultimate goal is to be able to cool as quietly as possible.

My question is: Will this fulfill my cooling needs or would it be better off going with the DD Cube?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[GuyBFF]

I'd say it'll do the job, from all I've heard the flat style rads cool better than the tube style of a comparible size, and with your milder setup, heat then shouldn't be hard to remove unless you peltier.
My ongoing concern is with mixing metals. I'm aware of sacrificial metals (zinc) and anti-corrosion additives, but I've still heard of failure (as well as guys that have ran a year with no signs).
I'm still anti Copper/Aluminum mix, I'd sway towards a BE 12x5 if you can fit in your design (which cools almost as well as cube and only costs $30, add two low noise 120mm and should be very efficient), or heater core style, BE Aquacoil or DD cube.
It's more of a what can fit well that's big and decently priced (and I don't even see aluminum rads in ads, unless the block is aluminum). The cube style rads pack a lot of punch in a small space, but you pay for it. Most people don't want to cut up a case for a flat style rad. But there cheap and perform well.
This ones still open to argument.

[TNT2bluz]

1) Yes it will cool a 1.4GHz T-bird quite easily. Actually if you're not using a pelt or OC'ing your CPU, as long as you can insure that there's fresh air running into your case, you can do without the fan on the radiator. But for all intents and purposes you can undervolt it. It is more quiet when the fan is placed to suck air through the rad rather than blow. (We'll have to get casual with those terms one of these days)

2) Looking at your case it would be a snug fit. Keeping the rads as small as possible is important given that default case layouts aren't made to accomodate watercooling aparatus.

3) As for the tranny oil cooler type radiators, though they are really cheap, they don't scale as well when you put on the heat. The round tubes do not necessarily conduct the heat away from the water in the center of the tube.

4) I suggest looking into the YeongYang 4000 series of cases. They all have 120mm exhaust panels in the back. Practically no modding required and the cases are quite cheap compared to evething that's out there.

Here's an updated pic of the Black Ice:



And the answer to those 2-fan tranny coolers.




Happy cooling.

[hielko]

Yeah, the Black Ice II...

Accourding to UPS.com one Black Ice II rad is on it's way to /me .

[TNT2bluz]

Looks like Hielko's a happy guy!

Have fun with it.

[BrianW]

Quick question. And if I get the correct answer I'll buy one of those Black Ice mofo's.

Are those Self tapping holes I see on the radiator on both sides or just one? One more: Would a filter before the radiator caouse an air flow decrease?

[TNT2bluz]

1) The self-tapping holes are present on both sides this allows for more mounting options.

2) Filters do affect airflow to a minimal extent. By how much, depends on the medium. Given a tightly mounted fan and a well framed filter medium you shouldn't have any problems with airflow.

I still remember those good ol' get-your-granny's-stocking-for-use-as-a-filter days.

[BrianW]

Can you run a bolt through the radiator? IE through the lined up self tapping holes?

[TNT2bluz]

Originally posted by Badly_Wired:
Can you run a bolt through the radiator? IE through the lined up self tapping holes?

Yes you can, but we don't recommend it because there's a risk less gentle and careful folks may abrade the tubes . The rads come with 8 screws. One set of four for mounting the fan onto the rad, and another set for mounting the rad onto the case. Likewise you can also use the longer set for bolting the fan and rad to the case.
i.e. Screw Head|Case|Fan|Rad

We've adjusted the self-tapping holes to 3 mm in the new batches to discourage bolt-throughs. We're doing everything we can to make sure we avoid as many "Doh!" moments as possible.

[krp]

Bolt-throughs with metal bolts might well damage the radiator, but how about bolt-through using threaded nylon rod stock like procooling used in their review of the blackice??:

I should think nylon would be soft enough to avoid scraping the radiator tubing??

Threaded nylon rod stock is easy to find, for example: Mcmaster.
Maybe HWlabs could discourage use of metal bolts by supplying a few pieces of threaded nylon rod long enough to go through the radiator and a fan and some nylon nuts with the Blackice radiator?

As for where to mount it in my case - the case picture I posted in my original posting doesn't show the lower front 120mm intake fan mount clearly - admittedly either of the two rear 120mm fan mounts would be a tight fit for the blackice radiator, however I had thought of mounting the Blackice on the lower-front 120mm intake hole, (which has lots of clearance around it), with a fan mounted inside the radiator to suck intake air through it. Using nylon rod stock to bolt-through mount it that would be:

nut:fan:radiator:case:nut
<<<--airflow--<<<

This would warm the case intake air slightly passing through the radiator, but since that case has oodles of exhaust, it wouldn't hang around long.

[TNT2bluz]

Hmm...

An option given the long and short sets of screws is:
Screw(L)|Fan|Rad|Case|Screw(S)

That way you wouldn't have to trouble yourself piercing through the fins.

Yeah I do agree, given the clearance between the exhaust fan mounts I don't think having the Black Ice in the exhaust, unless you wouldn't mind losing another fan, would be feasible.

But having 2 120mm exhausts and 1 120mm intake may give you negative case pressure. Is there another intake that I haven't seen?

Likewise is there anything else you'd be mounting at the end of those screws? That pic was that of the prototype and Chip over at OCWC was playing with mounting options before sending it over to Joe for a review.

However, it should be no problem for you to get the Black Ice with nylon screws. Order yours from www.overclok-watercool.com and simply specify nylon screws.

[branng]

Hey dude, when is the BlackIceII gonna be offically released?

[TNT2bluz]

There are a couple of things holding us back from officially releasing the Black Ice II.

Using the Black Ice 2 would seriously require you to do major mods on your cases.

The Black Ice Prime in itself can deal with most watercooling scenarios.

However, we are seriously contemplating of releasing the Black Ice II within the next quarter.

[hielko]

Major mods? I've recieved my Black Ice II today , and a quick inspection of my case (a Addtronics miditower) shows plenty of room where the rad can be mounted without to much problems (Top, sidepanel, front).

The only extra work I have to do compared to the normal BlackIce is the creation of a one extra blowhole.

[Highvoltagepc]

Nice!!I Want on of those "BLACK ICE 2's",
will there be a review soon?
hey -On mounting the 120mm fan on my "black ice 1"..
("PROP'S TO CHIP AT OC-WC")
I just epoxied 4 brass knurled nuts to the front of it,works great!i used 2"1/2 inch screws and installed about an inch of spacer in between the fan an radiator,at 1560mhz it runs around 104*F,not bad for its tiny size!the new/huge aquacoil i had,ran around 102*f in the same situation,but it wouldnt fit in my full tower correctly-

[TNT2bluz]

Ah you have it configured to blow.

Well you could actually do without the hose-clamps. The inlet/outlet tubes are barbed for this function.

Tweakers.net just received their BI 2 prototype for a review. The kicker is that it will be written in Dutch. Unless they allow syndication we'll have to be content on the temp figures. Any chance for this Hielko? Babelfish doesn't do Dutch.

BTW HVPC, what pump are you using? Plug in a 250 GPH unit or higher and it will scale with that as well.

But don't you just love the way its made?

[BrianW]

TNT2bluz whats your thoughts on nylon bolts? I was wondering would the screws alone be able to hold the weight of the rad w/ water filled?

[Highvoltagepc]

Hi TNT !hows it going!
yeah,i dont normally use hose clamps at all,i think that the hose i was useing was a little stretched from the brass barbs i had it on previously,i do think the black ice barbs could be a little bigger,more barbs per say,and is it going to come in a model with 1/2"inch fitting's?I just converted all of my fitting's up to 1/2" recently and am going to atempt to get out the torch and some solder and put some 1/2" fittings in to the black ice,should'nt be to difficult-
oh yeah,on the waterpump i just got a danner 700 this thing is huge and has ,yes ~1/2" fittings on it,should be some improvement over the 156ghp maxijet i was useing.And lastly yes i do love the way its made!!great job!!
ok well enough out of me,ill talk to ya later,best of the best regards Dave

[TNT2bluz]

Nylon screws...first thing's first.

The rad has about a 250ml capacity for water. It is about 480 grams (500g shipping), so all in all it is about 730g during operation. The nylon bolts would have no problem. Even more so zinc taptight screws.

HVPC, I'm not too sure about 1/2 fittings making it on those tanks. The 3/8" fittings were already a deviation from an earlier design. Enlarging the fittings would give the BI a higher profile which may adversely limit its mounting options.

Though you guys I'm sure are free to mod it given that you know what you're doing. I think to make it feasible you can possibly mount elbow barbs on top of the inlet/outlet tanks and seal the current 3/8". Do tell on how it performs afterwards. But make sure you check it for leaks afterwards.

Oh yeah Dave, will you be posting pics with it mounted snugly inside your PC case?

Thanks for the positive feedback. We've tried to think of everything possible in making the Black Ice.

[BrianW]

Threaded nylon rod stock is easy to find, for example: Mcmaster.
Maybe HWlabs could discourage use of metal bolts by supplying a few pieces of threaded nylon rod long enough to go through the radiator and a fan and some nylon nuts with the Blackice radiator?

Please advise me on the type and witdh to get @ www.mcmaster.com .

Thank you

[TNT2bluz]

Hi there. The nylon screws are bought as 24" (I think) threaded rods and cut to size.

The length of our screws are 1/4" for the short ones and 1 1/4" for the long ones with a width of about 0.13".

The holes in the new batch are set at 3.2mm.

[BrianW]

NO im talking about width of the bolts. www.mcmaster.com offers a few different types. They specify thread size (in inches). Do you know which fits most tightly?

Thanks again.

[TNT2bluz]

Originally posted by Badly_Wired:
NO im talking about width of the bolts. www.mcmaster.com offers a few different types. They specify thread size (in inches). Do you know which fits most tightly?

Thanks again.

Width as in diameter of the thread? That would be 1/8". Pretty much

Length would be 1 1/8" or 1 1/4".

THe screws that we will be including will be similar to those you would usually find with 60 x 25 mm fans, though a little shorter.

I hope I got this one right.