NeXXoS HP Pro just landed in my lap

[Cathar]

I have what appears to be an AlphaCool NeXXoS HP here.

I do NOT intend to forward it along to Phaestus for review, but am having a play with it right now. It came with push-fit barbs for 6mmID/8mmOD tubing, and I've managed to rig up something by a collection of tubings pushed into each other whereby I've been able to step it up/down to by 1/2" ID setup with minimal pressure drop. I have about 20cm of "restrictive" tubing in the system as a result of my adaptation.

The base is shiny, but quite visibly rippled. I am trying to decide whether or not I should lap the block? :shrug:

The copper piece is 5mm thick, and the pins are 3.5mm high, leaving 1.5mm of copper thickness between the CPU and the wetted area (bp thickness).

The performance I'm seeing from it right now given a Swiftech MCP600 sort of powered pumping pressure is actually very impressive. Definitely enough to give the top-end USA blocks a very good run for their money, however if the rest of the system were 6mm ID, the story might be a little different as flow rates would definitely suffer.

Just by visually looking at it this sort of cooling performance would be easily expected as it is very finely structured. Overclocking performance is, however, a little disappointing, but I feel that this may be due to the warped base.

So what should I do? Should I lap the block's base, or just send it to Phaestus "as is"?

[pHaestus]

I would say to leave it as is; otherwise complaints are certain.

[firtol88]

Send it as is.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

I would say to leave it as is; otherwise complaints are certain.

Righto.

I would've liked to have seen what it could do if properly lapped.

[Incoherent]

I would say lap it. If not, complaints from me are certain.

Actually tests of the "as is" condition are very interesting, but as a test of the block concept, it should be lapped.

[Ozymand]

The safest thing to do would be to test it both ways: in it's original form, then in the lapped form. That way there will be evidence in case any argument is brought up about influencing the data (never know with the "US vs. Germany" and the Liquid3D threads that have been floating around here as of late).

[Cathar]

Okay, just a rough idea. My testbed is barely more than an average home setup with some thermal probes, but it seems to give repeatable results well enough for me to develop waterblocks with a reasonable degree of certainty.

I don't test with flow rates as such, I test with variable pumping power, as for me I believe this gives a better indication of what people will see in the real world, where there is a fixed centrifugal pump running with whatever characteristics.

I use 2 x Laing D4's in series hooked up to a variable voltage PSU.

At 5V they are roughly about as powerful as an Eheim 1046, or perhaps a very small fraction stronger, in terms of their PQ curve. This is what I generally coin a "weak" pumping scenario
At 9V together they are about as powerful as an MCP600 in terms of the combined PQ curve. This is what I call a "moderate" pumping scenario.
At 13V together they are roughly equivalent to my 50Hz Iwaki MD30-RZ pump. This is what I call a "strong" pumping scenario.

I just let the flow rates fall where they may as based upon the PQ characteristics of the pumps at whatever voltage is set.

CPU is an Athlon XP-M, running at 2.70GHz/1.95v, being a moderately high overclock. CPU load is simulated with the BurnK7 program. CPU heat load is estimated, via the "heating a volume of water method" to be approximately 110W (+/- 10W or so). Temperatures are CPU temperature minus water-in temperature. Temperatures are reported to 0.1C resolution, but take that with a very large grain of salt.

NeXXoS HP
5v pumps -> +20.9C
9v pumps -> +19.1C
13v pumps -> +18.6C

Cascade SS
5v pumps -> +18.7C
9v pumps -> +17.6C
13v pumps -> +17.0C

Cathar's summary assessment: In terms of a block that most resembles the HP in terms of performance for pumping power, the DTek White Water would appear to be a fairly close match. The HP is a LOT more restrictive than the White Water though, so on an even flow-rate basis, the HP would appear to be superior than the White Water, but in a scenario where we just swapped between the two blocks and left the rest of a real-world system the same, performance would be very, very close between the two.

[alexwai]

Originally Posted by Cathar

NeXXoS HP Pro
5v pumps -> +20.9C
9v pumps -> +19.1C
13v pumps -> +18.6C

Cascade SS
5v pumps -> +18.7C
9v pumps -> +17.6C
13v pumps -> +17.0C

Cathar,

I am so interested in knowing the absolute difference in full load between 2 blocks.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by alexwai

Cathar,

I am so interested in knowing the absolute difference in full load between 2 blocks.

Water temps at equilibrium ranged between 23.4-23.8C for all of the tests.

[quicksilverXP]

With those tests, are you sure the block is actually performing to its full potential? Meaning, did you fully lap it, or somehow "unwarped" it because it appeared warped before? I have the Nexxos HP Pro right now and was wondering, due to its thin base, the chances of it warping on an Athlon 64, and whether or not I should return it and get the Cuplex Pro, seen here http://translate.google.com/translat...UTF-8%26sa%3DG
because of its thicker base. Performance, according to watercoolplanet, is almost the same between the Nexxos Pro and Cuplex Pro.

[Cathar]

quicksilver - by "warping", I really mean rippling.

The block's base, in my opinion, looks like it's been machined flat with a fly-cutter, and then electroplated with copper for a nice shiny finish, mostly covering the fly-cut machine marks, but still leaving that tell-tale ripple effect that fly-cut machining has. In short that would be a very cheap method to achieve a nice "mirror" finish - but not exactly flat. That is just what the finish on the base looks like to me.

The tops of the pins abut the top plate, so actual bending of the copper base-plate is very unlikely in my opinion. There would be next to zero chance of it bending on an Athlon64 just due to the way it's made.

The thermal-paste contact area imprint was actually fairly good against the CPU, despite the visual rippling. There was one small strip, about 1mm wide x 5mm long that I would have called "significantly less than desirable", but for the most part, the block was making very good contact against the CPU.

[bobkoure]

pHaestus is absolutely right - if you modify the block in any way there are going to be cries of "foul!", so, at a minimum, measurements before and after lapping.
I'd love to "see" how flat the base is before lapping. For instance, here's BillA's measurement of a LR WhiteWater block.

Given the flatness of this LRWW, I'd suggest that there's at least one person I'd trust to be able to hand lap the NexXxos into flatness...

[HammerSandwich]

Cathar, there is no question about the lapping: leave it alone. Having complained - rightly - about the WCP.de test of a modified Cascade, your hands are tied.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

Having complained - rightly - about the WCP.de test of a modified Cascade, your hands are tied.

Best response I've read yet.

Cheers.

Will pack it up and send it tomorrow.

[BillA]

as in NOT Cathar ?
for the above is one of the worst bps I've photographed

I can flatten it, and prove it flat, but why ?
this is a concern of the mfgr

all this discussion of 'improving' the as-built wb is pointless
what end-user out there can mod this wb and then state what the effect was ?, before and after

stop BSing yourselves, the better that wb is - the more difficult to separate from its fellows

[BillA]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

pHaestus is absolutely right - if you modify the block in any way there are going to be cries of "foul!", so, at a minimum, measurements before and after lapping.
I'd love to "see" how flat the base is before lapping. For instance, here's BillA's measurement of a LR WhiteWater block.

Given the flatness of this LRWW, I'd suggest that there's at least one person I'd trust to be able to hand lap the NexXxos into flatness...

Bob
while not stated explicitly in the review (so I guess most missed the implication ?), the LRWW bp was truly terrible - lost temp bigtime
the bp was probably warped during lapping, this was early on in the WW cycle

[Cathar]

Agreed with most of your points Bill. I've gotten better with my lapping though of late, of that I'm fairly certain, but it is not up to me to lap it because that would be changing the design away from the typical end-user experience.

What did confuse me though:

Originally Posted by unregistered

the better that wb is - the more difficult to separate from its fellows

separate from it's fellows?

[BillA]

the top performers are (at one flow rate or another, lol) bunched together
takes some precision and accuracy to legitimately separate them

EDIT:
for example, I have greater confidence (correlation of values) in ph's work than JoeC's
but the 'investment' in ph's bench is higher - and growing swiftly

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by unregistered

(so I guess most missed the implication ?)

Well, I clearly missed it. The rest of your audience is quite possibly more astute than me.

[BillA]

the error is/was mine
I have a 'special' relationship (friendship) with Cathar and wanted to be gentle in calling his baby ugly
there is a deep trough running veritcally between the sides, read it as a topo

[Myth]

I can see at the Alphacool homepage, that you can buy a kit converting the PRO version to an XP version. Given the results from the WCP test that should lover the temps aprox. a degree at the flow they were testing at.

Interesting to see how performance would change if the in and out holes were drilled larger and 1/2" barbes mounted..

[bobkoure]

As topo - cool!
I had it almost exactly backwards (thought there was a problem in the upper right corner, but away from die contact area, so no big deal).
Time for me to go re-look at the images you have on thermal-management-testing.com (thanks again for those, BTW)
Bob

Oh - on the off chance your other readers actually aren't lots more astute than me and if you ever get the time/energy/inclination to re-edit any of those reviews, you might want to add "read as topo" as an image footnote or tooltip (don't know if tooltips work cross-browser).

[BillA]

good suggestion
I'll edit my site this weekend, nothing I can do for the (same) reviews on OCers

[Cathar]

This arrived in my mail-box overnight:

To the Little River Water Blocks Company

Dissuasion / Request for forbearance

We accept under no circumstances your malicious statements from Pro Cooling about our products.

You know you are not authorized to make such statements regarding our products.

You also know that you go with your statements far beyond comparative advertising.

Statements about other firms products, which do not correspond to facts or which affect the business are punishable. If you carry on behaving in the same unprofessional manner and you do not contradict your unjustified statements within 24 hours and you desist for the future, we will initiate all legal measures against you, which are common practice in these cases.

Concentrate for the future on your own products, instead of denigrating other firms products.

Alphacool Ltd.


The block's base looks like it's been machined flat with a fly-cutter, and then electroplated with copper for a nice shiny finish, mostly covering the fly-cut machine marks, but still leaving that tell-tale ripple effect that fly-cut machining has.

In short - a very cheap method to achieve a nice "mirror" finish - but not exactly flat.


King Regards

Taner Demirci
Foreign Manager

Marienberger Str.1
38122 Braunschweig
Germany

Ph.:+49-531-28874-15
+49-531-28874-13
Fax:+49-531-28874-22

They're upset about my description of the quality of the base, and my opinion on the type of machining that would have produced such.

I'll post some pictures, which I wasn't going to do.

I will also edit the above statement to strongly reflect that it was just my personal assessment of how the base was machined.

[jaydee]

Send the pics to me and I will make the comments...