water cooling temps, problem?

[gotensan01]

I just finished my water cooling setup but was very discouraged to discover that my idle and load temps are only about 2 C cooler than with my hsf. Here is a picture of my setup. Do you guys have any suggestions as to why my water cooled temps blow? One reason I came up with is that it may not have enough air exhausting from the system.

[arterius]

Have you considered adding a shroud to your heatercore?
You could also ditch the nb block and get Thermalright's new nb1-c heatsink.

[saperboy]

how about having the cpu block as the first instead of the GPU.

[Etacovda]

1 - are you pushing into your res? the res should directly BEFORE the inlet of the pump (the horizontal barb) for the 'best' results.

2 - Is there metal in front of your rad there? Remove it. Airflow is everything!

[gotensan01]

Originally Posted by arterius

Have you considered adding a shroud to your heatercore?
You could also ditch the nb block and get Thermalright's new nb1-c heatsink.

If I add a shroud, I will have to remove one of the fans. I think I'll try on fan/shroud combo pulling air across the rad. This should be better than the two fans?
A lot of people have mentioned that the nb being water cooled is useless and adds more tubing and another drop point. I think I'm going to remove it and get something like you mentioned.

Originally Posted by saperboy

how about having the cpu block as the first instead of the GPU.

The flow is as follows right now: cpu->chipset->gpu->pump->rad->res->cpu

Originally Posted by Etacovda

1 - are you pushing into your res? the res should directly BEFORE the inlet of the pump (the horizontal barb) for the 'best' results.

2 - Is there metal in front of your rad there? Remove it. Airflow is everything!

I am not directly pushing into the res. If I chose to go pump->res->rad->cpu instead of pump->rad->res->cpu I would have unneccessary head loss by going up and down them back up.

I cut out all the metal directly in front of the rad. However about 2 inches in front of it is the front of the coolermaster case. There are some holes drilled into the wavey front by default but if need be the fan can draw more air in from inside the case. I added a closeup pic of the rad setup.

OKay, so I've gathered that I should remove the nb block and get rid of one fan to fit a fan/shroud combo? I think I'm going to have to go with one of those cheap rubbermaid shrouds that are homemade.

[AngryAlpaca]

Remount. If that doesn't help, remount again. If THAT doesn't help, remount again. Barring that, ignore the socket sensor and overclock like mad. Shrouds are good too, much better than push/pull. I doubt the NB block will affect your temperatures much. Changing the order won't change the temperature.

[bobkoure]

Etacovda's right.
Beyond that, I'd suggest using only one fan and mounting that with a shroud. (see notes below)
That looks to be a chevette/montego/dangerden heater core so you can use a Coolingworks shroud if you don't feel like building one yourself. I'd suggest just mounting the shroud+fan on the "pull" side and cutting a big square hole in your case, just a little smaller than the finned area of your heater core. You may also have to "ventilate" the front bezel. Try running with the bezel removed first, to see if that makes a difference, before cutting/drilling holes.
You also might try replacing that 120x25mm fan with a thicker one that might generate a bit more pressure. Heater cores are designed to work with car blowers, not axial fans.

Also, yes, you don't have enough exhaust coming out from the case. You could try a blowhole at the top. It looks as though you're depending on air pulled through those tiny holes for HDD cooling as well - which means you'll need to have more capacity exhausting than whatever you're pulling in through the radiator - otherwise you'll starve them for airflow. (You could open up the case in front of the HDDs while you're cutting a hole for the radiator...)

Note on shrouds - setup the way you are you're only using the area of a 120mm fan (117mm open or 107 sq cm) less the area of the motor in the center (probably more than 50mm or 20 sq cm) - so you're using 87 sq cm of the heater core. With a coolingworks shroud you have 140mm x 140mm and, because of the "plenum" also use the center area that had been blocked by the fan motor - so you're now using 154 sq cm - or 77% more (or viewed the other way 'round, you're only using 56% of your heater core now).
Note 2 - the coolingworks shroud does mask down to 140x140, so you could make your own, get right out to the edges, and get up to another 10% - up to you...

[gotensan01]

I do actually have thicker fans...38mm instead of the 25mm. I don't think the air suction is being restricted by the front bezel. I uploaded another pic of how their are opening between the fan and front bezel. Granted it might draw air from inside the case, I think it might be fine.

I do however agree that there isn't enough exhaust in the system. However I do not know how to add more. For some reason there is one 80mm case fan opening in the back. It is mounted right in the middle. I could actually cut two new holes and mount one 80mm on top and the other below. The blowhole on top is holding my res.

btw, i see a 4C degree drop when I run the system with the side panel open.

[gungeek]

I'd worry more about opening up the front so cool, ambient air can be pulled easily through the radiator. With a 4C drop from removing the side panel, there is definitely airflow problems. Start at the intake and work toward the exhaust.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by gotensan01

I don't think the air suction is being restricted by the front bezel.

You're kidding, right?
Those tiny holes?
I surrender - do it however you like...

[gotensan01]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

You're kidding, right?
Those tiny holes?
I surrender - do it however you like...

No, I'm not saying that the holes in the front are enough. I'm just saying that it can pull air from the side (which is the inside air). Either way I agree with you that this lack of fresh air is causing some problems. I am not sure yet how I'll deal with it though.

[Mars]

I would defineately remove any metal in front of the heatercore. Get rid of the push fan, and install a shroud around the core. I would change the setup to:
pump-heatercore-cpu- gpu-reservoir-pump. Exhaust ass much air as you can with proper airflow. Try doing a 'smoke test'. Oh, and remount the WB a couple times to make sure it is sitting flush, and make sure you use Arctic Silver 5.

......I think I see an air pocket in the picture you posted.

[gungeek]

Originally Posted by Mars

I would change the setup to:
pump-heatercore-cpu- gpu-reservoir-pump.

Why the change? The order of the loop makes no practical difference.

[gotensan01]

I got rid of the push/pull system and just had a pull with a homemade shroud. I also lengthened one of the tubings to make a wider radius to cut down on some flatening. I added minor exhaust after I added a hdd cooling kit. Usually the two small fans blow in but I reversed them to blow out. My system runs a lot quieter now but the idle temps seem almost the same. I'll run some load tests and report.

I'm not sure if changing the order of the connections will help. If I remove the chipset block, I have a feeling the temp might fall a bit. I do think that I may have to remount the blocks. I'll try to do it when I find time.

[redleader]

You can't expect a heatercore to work properly like that.

First thing cut holes in the case front ASAP. If thats not an option, take the heatercore out of the case until you figure out how you're going to run it.

Second, ditch the second fan and get a shroud. It makes a difference both in noise and performance.

[redleader]

Originally Posted by gungeek

Why the change? The order of the loop makes no practical difference.

Heh I've been saying that since 2001. Most people simply think "Oh the pump heats the water - put the radiator first". Nevermind that the pump is only heating the water .0003C !

[gotensan01]

Originally Posted by redleader

You can't expect a heatercore to work properly like that.

First thing cut holes in the case front ASAP. If thats not an option, take the heatercore out of the case until you figure out how you're going to run it.

Second, ditch the second fan and get a shroud. It makes a difference both in noise and performance.

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that some sort of extra holes need to be cut in the front bezel but I don't know how yet. I have the nice Coolermaster case so The front is pretty much 1/3 of the cost of the case.

I already added a shroud and ditched the second fan, it does work more efficiently now.

[gotensan01]

I added updated pics to my website.

[winewood]

Run the cpu case with the side off and the radiator front.. (next to the metal front wall) facing into the open air. If this reduces your temperatures much if any, then that front case wall has be be CUT OUT in front of the rad. With everything as-is, the radiator really should be the most limiting factor using that setup.
Personally, I put my heatercore sandwiched in between a push/pull config. But, the fans do no good if they dont have 80% without restriction (my exp.) You can make the fans much more efficient if you use a shroud though. Make the shrouds yourself. The cost is minimal, you can do it in a day and it will be custom to your heatercore and fans.

The favorite part of my case was making the inside and outside components out of fiberglass, and it performs like a champ.

[Mars]

If you remove the front bezel of the case you will expose the metal fram right? So cut the desired size of the heatercore but without noticing it from the outside. You know what I mean? So, from the outside you still see some little holes but just enough so it doesn't look chopped up. Also if you can cut the bottom of the front bezel that way air can be sucked UP underneathe the bezel and through the heatercore.