opening blocks

Moparchris · 05-11-2004, 01:45 AM

how important is it to you to be able to open up a block to clean it ?

and how often do you clean yours ?

Groth · 05-11-2004, 02:16 AM

It's important that the tops be removable, but not for cleaning. If I can re-use the top of a previous block, the newest block is quicker to make.

Varsis · 05-11-2004, 02:33 AM

well i dont make blocks, but for me, well its MUCH easier if youcan take the top off so you can clean a block well and throughly, because no matter how CLOSED yout hink your loop is, or how CLEAN you think your fluid is. you can pull an AWEFUL lot of crap out of a maze 2 after its been run for 3 years with some vineagar and bleech with a few pipe cleaners!

trust me, it wasn't pretty.

BillA · 05-11-2004, 11:34 AM

you can boil a closed wb, no biggie

SlaterSpeed · 05-11-2004, 01:31 PM

Very important for blocks with micro channles or other small passages. less important for the old maze designs

pHaestus · 05-11-2004, 01:33 PM

People aren't going to like the suggestion of an inline filter, are they?

kronchev · 05-11-2004, 01:35 PM

i have a maze4 with a clear top, and a spir@l with an alum top. I plan to open up the spir@l soon so I can try to roughen up the insides with whatever method of destruction strikes my fancy

if the maze4 ever looks like its collecting something i of course will open it. both have some kind of allen wrench top it looks like and I bought the one from dangerden so opening shouldnt be a hassle.

TerraMex · 05-11-2004, 07:40 PM

definitely needed. I like my blocks clean and shiny.
Like my women.

Cathar · 05-11-2004, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

People aren't going to like the suggestion of an inline filter, are they?

It's what I use. Can pick up an in-line filter for $5, which if installed with a closed loop system will guarantee trouble free operation for very fine blocks.

For people who run open-to-the-air reservoirs, or evap-cooling systems, an in-line filter is recommended for most any block.

jaydee · 05-11-2004, 09:51 PM

I like to make removable tops blocks, especially if you can mill an o-ring groove. Easier to modify and maintain for a DIY'er.

JoeKamel · 05-11-2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

It's what I use. Can pick up an in-line filter for $5, which if installed with a closed loop system will guarantee trouble free operation for very fine blocks.

For people who run open-to-the-air reservoirs, or evap-cooling systems, an in-line filter is recommended for most any block.

What kind of filters do you use? Like aquarium filters or something different?

Cathar · 05-12-2004, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKamel

What kind of filters do you use? Like aquarium filters or something different?

Micro-irrigation filter available at most hardware stores. Consists of a little plastic "basket" of thousands of ~0.1mm sized holes. Has a 1/2" barb on each end. Costs $4.50 Aussie, or around $3.00 US.

There are also plenty of the marine-style in-line filters, also with 1/2" barbs. Jabsco make a nice one. They are a little pricier, at around $10 US.

JoeKamel · 05-12-2004, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

Micro-irrigation filter available at most hardware stores. Consists of a little plastic "basket" of thousands of ~0.1mm sized holes. Has a 1/2" barb on each end. Costs $4.50 Aussie, or around $3.00 US.

There are also plenty of the marine-style in-line filters, also with 1/2" barbs. Jabsco make a nice one. They are a little pricier, at around $10 US.

How difficult is it to change the filter? I mean do you have to drain the system in order to do so or can the cartridge or whatever be changed without removing the entire piece?

BillA · 05-12-2004, 09:16 AM

lets get real here

what is the pressure drop curve for these filters ?
gonna be one thing at 1gpm, and a very different value at 2.5 or 3gpm

I use filters in test loops (big ones, or the small ones from Lytron coolers), but do not use them in WCing systems due to their head loss

so a realistic comparison of a 'micro fine' wb needing a filter, should be done as the components are installed in a system, i.e. with a filter
- that would certainally change the equation !

I do have a small amount of experience with the Cascade, and it does warrant the use of a filter
the WW is considerably less 'picky'

lets keep the Cascade in perspective; we do many things for a race car that we ignore on a street car, wbs are little different

Boli · 05-12-2004, 10:33 AM

If it is important to open the blocks for cleaning then it is DOUBLY important to have them ship with spare O rings.

I won't open my block for that very reason. A year on cooling my system I'm sure the O ring won't be up to much however good the quality is it would have degraded somewhat in that time and opening the block is only asking for trouble. As I have no spare - high preasure water from the tap is about as much cleaning as the block gets.

SlaterSpeed · 05-12-2004, 11:00 AM

The o-ring should be fine

If you need to use a filter with the cascade and not with the whitewater then whats the point in buying the cascade in the first place as surely the filter will cause a bigger loss in performance than will be gained by the better block design.

Filters are all well and good aslong as they are not restrictive but i cant relly see an inline filter having low enough resistance not to cause problems.

pauldenton · 05-13-2004, 05:36 PM

maybe i'm being obtuse, but if you flush the system and filter the water before/when filling, just where would the stuff the inline filter is designed to catch originate??

AngryAlpaca · 05-13-2004, 06:43 PM

The blocks, more likely the radiator, maybe a bit on the tubing, or in the pump, etc. Just how restrictive are they? Slater: The Cascade is still superior.

Cathar · 05-13-2004, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldenton

maybe i'm being obtuse, but if you flush the system and filter the water before/when filling, just where would the stuff the inline filter is designed to catch originate??

Yes, this is true. I use an in-line filter with my Cascade in a closed loop only because I was an idiot and when I spray painted my radiator I didn't block the tubes and got spray inside the tanks. Every now and then a particle of paint dislodges and decides to run through the loop and that's what the filter is for, otherwise I wouldn't even bother.

Filters are mostly for the paranoid in closed loop systems which haven't been prepared properly, or for open-to-the-air systems.

j813 · 05-13-2004, 09:50 PM

Ideally the inline filter is better at what location? Since I have an Evap tower.
Materials, how long can it withstand due to constant opening before it will be deformed?

AngryAlpaca · 05-13-2004, 10:40 PM

I would put it right after the pump, I'd guess, or right after it exits the open area and goes into the tubing. The only place to not put it would be the inlet to the pump, as impeller pumps like lots of water.

firtol88 · 07-26-2004, 10:40 AM

I run a filter when setting up a new system and for the first few days of use, seems to work fine for me.

BillA · 07-26-2004, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firtol88

I run a filter when setting up a new system and for the first few days of use, seems to work fine for me.

probably the best method

Kobuchi · 07-27-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firtol88

I run a filter when setting up a new system and for the first few days of use, seems to work fine for me.

If you have space, the filter could be on a diverter. Then occasionally run through the filter for a minute when the computer's off. That wouldn't stop Cathar's paint chips from jamming channels, but otherwise it should work as well as continuous use.

If intermittent, only a reversible filter(s) can catch channel jammers. Who wants to set that up?

redleader · 08-16-2004, 12:36 PM

Depends on the system. With an airtight inline system and distilled water, it doesn't really matter. I'm going on 18 months since i opened my loop, and looking in the res I see nothing at all settled out of it.

For a mixed metal system, it might be a different story.

View Poll Results: how important is it for you to be able to open your blocks for cleaning ?
definatly needed	52	42.98%
yeah.. sortof needed	32	26.45%
meh, who cares	11	9.09%
naah not really needed	23	19.01%
BAH ! dont need to at all, stuff it	3	2.48%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

05-11-2004, 01:45 AM	#1
Moparchris Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 50	opening blocks how important is it to you to be able to open up a block to clean it ? and how often do you clean yours ?

05-11-2004, 02:33 AM	#3
Varsis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: maui, hawaii Posts: 52	well i dont make blocks, but for me, well its MUCH easier if youcan take the top off so you can clean a block well and throughly, because no matter how CLOSED yout hink your loop is, or how CLEAN you think your fluid is. you can pull an AWEFUL lot of crap out of a maze 2 after its been run for 3 years with some vineagar and bleech with a few pipe cleaners! trust me, it wasn't pretty. __________________ Cool with the best or burn like the rest.

05-11-2004, 01:31 PM	#5
SlaterSpeed Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 234	Very important for blocks with micro channles or other small passages. less important for the old maze designs __________________ aka. slater3333uk - The self proclaimed 'Middle Player' 'Liquified'

05-11-2004, 01:33 PM	#6
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	People aren't going to like the suggestion of an inline filter, are they? __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

05-11-2004, 02:16 AM	#2
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	It's important that the tops be removable, but not for cleaning. If I can re-use the top of a previous block, the newest block is quicker to make.

05-11-2004, 11:34 AM	#4
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	you can boil a closed wb, no biggie

05-11-2004, 01:35 PM	#7
kronchev Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lawrenceville, NJ Posts: 254	i have a maze4 with a clear top, and a spir@l with an alum top. I plan to open up the spir@l soon so I can try to roughen up the insides with whatever method of destruction strikes my fancy if the maze4 ever looks like its collecting something i of course will open it. both have some kind of allen wrench top it looks like and I bought the one from dangerden so opening shouldnt be a hassle. __________________ Ghetto riggin'!

05-11-2004, 07:40 PM	#8
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	definitely needed. I like my blocks clean and shiny. Like my women. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

05-11-2004, 09:51 PM	#10
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I like to make removable tops blocks, especially if you can mill an o-ring groove. Easier to modify and maintain for a DIY'er.

05-12-2004, 09:16 AM	#14
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	lets get real here what is the pressure drop curve for these filters ? gonna be one thing at 1gpm, and a very different value at 2.5 or 3gpm I use filters in test loops (big ones, or the small ones from Lytron coolers), but do not use them in WCing systems due to their head loss so a realistic comparison of a 'micro fine' wb needing a filter, should be done as the components are installed in a system, i.e. with a filter - that would certainally change the equation ! I do have a small amount of experience with the Cascade, and it does warrant the use of a filter the WW is considerably less 'picky' lets keep the Cascade in perspective; we do many things for a race car that we ignore on a street car, wbs are little different Last edited by pHaestus; 05-12-2004 at 10:18 AM.

05-12-2004, 10:33 AM	#15
Boli Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackburn / Dundee Posts: 451	If it is important to open the blocks for cleaning then it is DOUBLY important to have them ship with spare O rings. I won't open my block for that very reason. A year on cooling my system I'm sure the O ring won't be up to much however good the quality is it would have degraded somewhat in that time and opening the block is only asking for trouble. As I have no spare - high preasure water from the tap is about as much cleaning as the block gets. __________________ 1800+ @ 2247 (214x10.5) - STABLE, 512MB PC3700 TwinX Cosair RAM, NF7-S v2.0, GeForce3 Ti200 Parallel BIM, 120.1 Thermochill, Eheim 1048, Maze 3, Maze4 GPU, "Z" chipset, 1/2" tubing, PC-70: 5x120mm & 9x80mm fans. Internet Server & second machine (folding 24/7): 512MB DDR RAM, XP2000+

05-12-2004, 11:00 AM	#16
SlaterSpeed Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 234	The o-ring should be fine If you need to use a filter with the cascade and not with the whitewater then whats the point in buying the cascade in the first place as surely the filter will cause a bigger loss in performance than will be gained by the better block design. Filters are all well and good aslong as they are not restrictive but i cant relly see an inline filter having low enough resistance not to cause problems. __________________ aka. slater3333uk - The self proclaimed 'Middle Player' 'Liquified'

05-13-2004, 05:36 PM	#17
pauldenton Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: london, england Posts: 416	maybe i'm being obtuse, but if you flush the system and filter the water before/when filling, just where would the stuff the inline filter is designed to catch originate??

05-13-2004, 06:43 PM	#18
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	The blocks, more likely the radiator, maybe a bit on the tubing, or in the pump, etc. Just how restrictive are they? Slater: The Cascade is still superior.

05-13-2004, 09:50 PM	#20
j813 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: southeast asia Posts: 164	Ideally the inline filter is better at what location? Since I have an Evap tower. Materials, how long can it withstand due to constant opening before it will be deformed?

05-13-2004, 10:40 PM	#21
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	I would put it right after the pump, I'd guess, or right after it exits the open area and goes into the tubing. The only place to not put it would be the inlet to the pump, as impeller pumps like lots of water.

07-26-2004, 10:40 AM	#22
firtol88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: BRLA Posts: 151	I run a filter when setting up a new system and for the first few days of use, seems to work fine for me. __________________ - - In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper

08-16-2004, 12:36 PM	#25
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Depends on the system. With an airtight inline system and distilled water, it doesn't really matter. I'm going on 18 months since i opened my loop, and looking in the res I see nothing at all settled out of it. For a mixed metal system, it might be a different story.

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