Small Radiator for SFF case

PurpleDiamond · 12-02-2004, 03:48 PM

Me: "Hi, my name is PurpleDiamond and I'm a n00b."
Everybody: "Hi PurpleDiamond"

I have built a custom SFF case for a HTPC and discovered that air cooling was way too noisy. As a result I have decided that it is time for me to finally build a watercooled system.
If possible I want to keep the cost down.
But it has to small.
Really small...
The only place I have for an internal radiator (which is what I want do do) can hold a 155mm x 120mm x 40mm radiator (not including barbs - if they are 90 deg).
I can't find one that fits

I have looked at all the stores that sell WC stuff, the Lytron catalog and the heatercores listings.
I would love to find one that fits a 92mm fan if possible. I do not need a lot of cooling capacity as I am only cooling the CPU (XP1700).

Thanks for your help.

9mmCensor · 12-02-2004, 03:51 PM

mount the rad outside the case.

Ls7corvete · 12-02-2004, 04:07 PM

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&postcount=102

you might be able to find one with a fin area ~92mm, that should leave enough room for the barbs....

BillA · 12-02-2004, 04:23 PM

you need to make choices at a lower level
size OR noise OR cost OR performance
while not strictly mutually exclusive as above, you cannot maximize everything simultaneously

as suggested, mount the rad outside the case
'low noise' and 'space constrained' are not so compatible

PurpleDiamond · 12-02-2004, 04:27 PM

Thanks Ls7corvete but that file is corrupt. I have seen that thread but couldn't open the file. Do you have a copy of it?

PurpleDiamond · 12-02-2004, 04:37 PM

unregistered - I'm affraid that external isn't really an option, there simply isn't enough room outside. Here is a link to my project log on Bit-Tech so you can see what I have to work with. I know that I need to compromise, I was wondering if anyone had an idea/source/available radiator?
I know that I can probably fit a GlobalWin SilentStream kit in there but I want a little more oomph, and I want some upgradeability (is that a word?)

BillA · 12-02-2004, 04:42 PM

ThermoChill 92.1 rad

MadHacker · 12-02-2004, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleDiamond

Thanks Ls7corvete but that file is corrupt. I have seen that thread but couldn't open the file. Do you have a copy of it?

try here
http://www3.telus.net/MadHacker/HeaterCores.htm
the dimensions sheet

PurpleDiamond · 12-02-2004, 04:55 PM

The thermochill is too deep, but thanks unregistered

I have seen that sheet and the closest I found was still too big (the 2-563,2-588,2-688) thanks MadHacker.

Ls7corvete · 12-02-2004, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

you need to make choices at a lower level
size OR noise OR cost OR performance
while not strictly mutually exclusive as above, you cannot maximize everything simultaneously

as suggested, mount the rad outside the case
'low noise' and 'space constrained' are not so compatible

I am assuming that performance is going to take the hit instead of noise, it is HTPC. Shouldnt need to much of an overlcock on your vcr.....

PurpleDiamond · 12-02-2004, 05:54 PM

I probably should have mentioned - no overclocking. The motherboard has no overclocking capabilities, and for an HTPC an Athlon 1700 is more than enough.

The only radiators that seem to be the right size are the ones that come in the low end kits as a secondary radiator or even the radiators inside the drive bay units.

Where would I find one - without buying a kit and taking it apart just for the radiator?

killernoodle · 12-02-2004, 05:59 PM

Can you not mount the radiator on the outside of the case on the fan holes? That should free up some space.

Ruiner · 12-02-2004, 09:36 PM

If you are not overclocking, why even watercool? I would look into a mobile barton, designed to work at low Vcore, and get one of the many silent HSF's.
Dig around at silentpcreview.com
Do you have any pics of your case?

Cranky · 12-02-2004, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruiner

If you are not overclocking, why even watercool? I would look into a mobile barton, designed to work at low Vcore, and get one of the many silent HSF's.
Dig around at silentpcreview.com
Do you have any pics of your case?

ummmmm cause i like the lower temps and the silence....

AngryAlpaca · 12-02-2004, 10:10 PM

Lower temperatures are a mean, not an end. I'd look into quiet air for SURE for something like that. I don't think that a 90mm radiator will do much better than aircooling of the same noise (if at all.)

rundymc · 12-03-2004, 02:56 AM

I'm in agreement
you can opt for quiet air solutions since you're not going to use the lower temperatures that watercooling can accomplish
and like AA said, with the type of rad you're looking for, there's isn't going to be a large enough performance gain anyway

Ruiner · 12-03-2004, 06:58 AM

At stock speeds a cpu will be happy in the mid/high 50C range for years....think of an OEM PC with a retail cooler packed with dust bunnies and cat hair.
HTPCs usually don't have high cpu utilization either, if setup properly (i.e. hardware acceleration for most decoding/encoding duties) so it will be frequently idle/near idle.

Low temps are important to maintain stability when pushing the limits of a chip at high Vcore and clock speeds.

Caeberos · 12-03-2004, 07:12 AM

I just read your work log, and your system looks extremely well done. I am not sure how far you are willing to go continuing to modify it, but you should probably build a duct if you have not already done so. It seems like you would have enough room to do so assuming you can move the PSU cable out of the way (headed off to class now, so I am not sure if you did) This should definatly improve temperatures and allow you to use a quieter fan. You also might consider some type of fan control, a 7v 12v switch could do it, or you could get more elaborate with a PWM setup. I don't think water cooling is the way to go on that particular case.

PurpleDiamond · 12-03-2004, 08:54 AM

I have to admit that I don't "need" a watercooled rig, but c'mon - does anyone really need one? We do it because it's fun and because we feel the need to tinker.
I would love to do it for the experience and of course the bragging rights

.

I could build a duct and buy a Vantec Aeroflow and have a good and quiet aircooled system (once I undervolt the fan). I put a Vantec Aeroflow in my father-in-law's system and it kicks a$$. It is a XP2500 running 11x200 and never goes over 45 deg even when it's CPU load is 100%.

But where is the fun in that?

Next time I build a case I will start from designing the cooling system and not think of how much stuff I can shove in as little space as possible... ...looking at the Compaq Proliant 4500 server chassis in the garage

Thanks for your input

Brians256 · 12-03-2004, 01:03 PM

Making a watercooled system where you pick a small radiator just seems foolish to me. The ONLY advantage watercooling has is the ability to move the heat from the CPU into a larger surface: the radiator.

When you only have a little bit of space, it seems like a larger heatsink and fan would be better than trying to divide that same space between waterblock, pump, tubing and radiator.

There's nothing magical about water. It just moves the heat, and it's not even as good as metal.

On the other hand, doing it because it is neat... that's a perfectly valid reason.

Brians256 · 12-03-2004, 01:04 PM

By the way, welcome to ProCooling!

MadHacker · 12-03-2004, 01:12 PM

I originaly tried to pack everything into a 15" case. Found it worked well...
But I was also looking to overclock it...
Pictures here
It was fun to make...
But after it was all done I switched to a larger case.
my 2¢ worth

rocketmanx · 12-05-2004, 10:15 PM

As Angry may remember I fit a Black Ice Micro in my Reflexion using a Zalman 80x15 mm fan attached internally via the stock heat pipe mount holes.
Worked great. Temps were much better than air for sure.

To me setting a singular goal is key as mentioned before. That determines your order of importance. With a SFF PC I'd suggest to first determine wether all internal or wether or not to go partially external first. Helps in figuring out which parts to use. I've always found that when building something you can always find something that fits if clever enough to figure out how to use it properly.

BTW- nice to be back watercooling again AA

I missed it. I have a new rig cookin'

Brians256 · 12-05-2004, 10:33 PM

rocketmanx, how were the noise levels though? I would have thought that in order to get better temps than air, you'd have a fairly non-quiet fan.

PurpleDiamond · 12-06-2004, 05:01 AM

Thanks for your input everybody.

I think that if I move things around I can fit something like a Black Ice Pro in there.
I am trying to keep the project cost down and I want to know what you think of the Rio 180 pump? I have read that it could be converted to an inline pump and the size is just right. Can I place it right next to the hard drive or do I need some EMI shield?

12-02-2004, 03:48 PM	#1
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	Small Radiator for SFF case - a motorcycle oil cooler? Me: "Hi, my name is PurpleDiamond and I'm a n00b." Everybody: "Hi PurpleDiamond" I have built a custom SFF case for a HTPC and discovered that air cooling was way too noisy. As a result I have decided that it is time for me to finally build a watercooled system. If possible I want to keep the cost down. But it has to small. Really small... The only place I have for an internal radiator (which is what I want do do) can hold a 155mm x 120mm x 40mm radiator (not including barbs - if they are 90 deg). I can't find one that fits I have looked at all the stores that sell WC stuff, the Lytron catalog and the heatercores listings. I would love to find one that fits a 92mm fan if possible. I do not need a lot of cooling capacity as I am only cooling the CPU (XP1700). Thanks for your help. Last edited by PurpleDiamond; 12-08-2004 at 11:42 AM.

12-02-2004, 04:37 PM	#6
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	unregistered - I'm affraid that external isn't really an option, there simply isn't enough room outside. Here is a link to my project log on Bit-Tech so you can see what I have to work with. I know that I need to compromise, I was wondering if anyone had an idea/source/available radiator? I know that I can probably fit a GlobalWin SilentStream kit in there but I want a little more oomph, and I want some upgradeability (is that a word?) Last edited by PurpleDiamond; 12-08-2004 at 11:48 AM.

12-02-2004, 05:59 PM	#12
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	Can you not mount the radiator on the outside of the case on the fan holes? That should free up some space. __________________ I have a nice computer.

12-03-2004, 01:12 PM	#22
MadHacker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Okotoks, A.B. Canada Posts: 726	I originaly tried to pack everything into a 15" case. Found it worked well... But I was also looking to overclock it... Pictures here It was fun to make... But after it was all done I switched to a larger case. my 2¢ worth __________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - (Einstein)

12-05-2004, 10:15 PM	#23
rocketmanx Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 127	As Angry may remember I fit a Black Ice Micro in my Reflexion using a Zalman 80x15 mm fan attached internally via the stock heat pipe mount holes. Worked great. Temps were much better than air for sure. To me setting a singular goal is key as mentioned before. That determines your order of importance. With a SFF PC I'd suggest to first determine wether all internal or wether or not to go partially external first. Helps in figuring out which parts to use. I've always found that when building something you can always find something that fits if clever enough to figure out how to use it properly. BTW- nice to be back watercooling again AA I missed it. I have a new rig cookin' __________________ "The more I learn the less I know, but I never knew as much as when I was sixteen"

12-02-2004, 03:51 PM	#2
9mmCensor Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 219	mount the rad outside the case.

12-02-2004, 04:07 PM	#3
Ls7corvete Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: FL Posts: 164	http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&postcount=102 you might be able to find one with a fin area ~92mm, that should leave enough room for the barbs....

12-02-2004, 04:23 PM	#4
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	you need to make choices at a lower level size OR noise OR cost OR performance while not strictly mutually exclusive as above, you cannot maximize everything simultaneously as suggested, mount the rad outside the case 'low noise' and 'space constrained' are not so compatible

12-02-2004, 04:27 PM	#5
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	Thanks Ls7corvete but that file is corrupt. I have seen that thread but couldn't open the file. Do you have a copy of it?

12-02-2004, 04:42 PM	#7
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	ThermoChill 92.1 rad

12-02-2004, 04:55 PM	#9
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	The thermochill is too deep, but thanks unregistered I have seen that sheet and the closest I found was still too big (the 2-563,2-588,2-688) thanks MadHacker.

12-02-2004, 05:54 PM	#11
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	I probably should have mentioned - no overclocking. The motherboard has no overclocking capabilities, and for an HTPC an Athlon 1700 is more than enough. The only radiators that seem to be the right size are the ones that come in the low end kits as a secondary radiator or even the radiators inside the drive bay units. Where would I find one - without buying a kit and taking it apart just for the radiator?

12-02-2004, 09:36 PM	#13
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	If you are not overclocking, why even watercool? I would look into a mobile barton, designed to work at low Vcore, and get one of the many silent HSF's. Dig around at silentpcreview.com Do you have any pics of your case?

12-02-2004, 10:10 PM	#15
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Lower temperatures are a mean, not an end. I'd look into quiet air for SURE for something like that. I don't think that a 90mm radiator will do much better than aircooling of the same noise (if at all.)

12-03-2004, 02:56 AM	#16
rundymc Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 67	I'm in agreement you can opt for quiet air solutions since you're not going to use the lower temperatures that watercooling can accomplish and like AA said, with the type of rad you're looking for, there's isn't going to be a large enough performance gain anyway

12-03-2004, 06:58 AM	#17
Ruiner Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Smyrna, FL Posts: 258	At stock speeds a cpu will be happy in the mid/high 50C range for years....think of an OEM PC with a retail cooler packed with dust bunnies and cat hair. HTPCs usually don't have high cpu utilization either, if setup properly (i.e. hardware acceleration for most decoding/encoding duties) so it will be frequently idle/near idle. Low temps are important to maintain stability when pushing the limits of a chip at high Vcore and clock speeds.

12-03-2004, 07:12 AM	#18
Caeberos Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 32	I just read your work log, and your system looks extremely well done. I am not sure how far you are willing to go continuing to modify it, but you should probably build a duct if you have not already done so. It seems like you would have enough room to do so assuming you can move the PSU cable out of the way (headed off to class now, so I am not sure if you did) This should definatly improve temperatures and allow you to use a quieter fan. You also might consider some type of fan control, a 7v 12v switch could do it, or you could get more elaborate with a PWM setup. I don't think water cooling is the way to go on that particular case.

12-03-2004, 08:54 AM	#19
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	I have to admit that I don't "need" a watercooled rig, but c'mon - does anyone really need one? We do it because it's fun and because we feel the need to tinker. I would love to do it for the experience and of course the bragging rights . I could build a duct and buy a Vantec Aeroflow and have a good and quiet aircooled system (once I undervolt the fan). I put a Vantec Aeroflow in my father-in-law's system and it kicks a$$. It is a XP2500 running 11x200 and never goes over 45 deg even when it's CPU load is 100%. But where is the fun in that? Next time I build a case I will start from designing the cooling system and not think of how much stuff I can shove in as little space as possible... ...looking at the Compaq Proliant 4500 server chassis in the garage Thanks for your input

12-03-2004, 01:03 PM	#20
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Making a watercooled system where you pick a small radiator just seems foolish to me. The ONLY advantage watercooling has is the ability to move the heat from the CPU into a larger surface: the radiator. When you only have a little bit of space, it seems like a larger heatsink and fan would be better than trying to divide that same space between waterblock, pump, tubing and radiator. There's nothing magical about water. It just moves the heat, and it's not even as good as metal. On the other hand, doing it because it is neat... that's a perfectly valid reason.

12-03-2004, 01:04 PM	#21
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	By the way, welcome to ProCooling!

12-05-2004, 10:33 PM	#24
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	rocketmanx, how were the noise levels though? I would have thought that in order to get better temps than air, you'd have a fairly non-quiet fan.

12-06-2004, 05:01 AM	#25
PurpleDiamond Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 19	Thanks for your input everybody. I think that if I move things around I can fit something like a Black Ice Pro in there. I am trying to keep the project cost down and I want to know what you think of the Rio 180 pump? I have read that it could be converted to an inline pump and the size is just right. Can I place it right next to the hard drive or do I need some EMI shield?

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