Need a turbo cooling system, anyone?

MountainLife · 10-18-2004, 07:38 PM

Hye guys looking for an edge in my snowmobile racing, I have a 2 stroke 2 cyl motor with a turbo system on it.

The colder the intake air the more power

the colder the fuel coming in the more power

so i was trying to figure a way to adapt your genius cpu and case cooling systems to my application.

for the air i have an aluminum air intake tube and a pressurized airbox

i'd like to maybe put some plates on the alum air box to bring down the temps can this be done with out some monmster heavy water cooling system? can c02 be used, or any other solutions?

also would like to cool my fuel maybe on the fuel rails or fuel lines... any ideas would be great appreciated oh one other prob i have ac power not dc, thanks

killernoodle · 10-18-2004, 08:24 PM

If the turbocharged air is intercooled with all the subzero air around, that should be enough for that. As for the fuel, using a transmission cooler of some kind would work wonders if it had some airflow on it or something. Just route the fuel lines through the cooler and bingo. Cold ass fuel. But wouldnt the fuel be cold anyways just from sitting outside in the cold?

MountainLife · 10-18-2004, 08:27 PM

well you're forgetting underhood temps which can get pretty high hot fuel lines etc and intercooler isn't really an option based on space, and having to vent through the hood in the front for the cooler to get air alot of vent space and it would get damaged probably.. any chance of any of cooling systems being adaptable?

greenman100 · 10-18-2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainLife

well you're forgetting underhood temps which can get pretty high hot fuel lines etc and intercooler isn't really an option based on space, and having to vent through the hood in the front for the cooler to get air alot of vent space and it would get damaged probably.. any chance of any of cooling systems being adaptable?

lotta weight to add

intercooler is the best you'll do, that's all watercooling is really

2Busy · 10-18-2004, 09:51 PM

What about dry ice in a small can with a coil for the fuel to pass through? Maybe incorporate the aluminum intake tube in the whole thing? Probably would not take much dry ice to cool the intake tube and a coil of 1/4 id tube for the fuel? Is this "street racing" or do you gotta follow a certain set of rules?

MountainLife · 10-18-2004, 09:57 PM

anything goes.. not a bad idea but would always have to replace it etc wanted a real cooling system thanks guys

greenman100 · 10-18-2004, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Busy

What about dry ice in a small can with a coil for the fuel to pass through? Maybe incorporate the aluminum intake tube in the whole thing? Probably would not take much dry ice to cool the intake tube and a coil of 1/4 id tube for the fuel? Is this "street racing" or do you gotta follow a certain set of rules?

if you're going to do that, direct the snow that flies out over some tube, you're riding on plenty of "dry ice"

winewood · 10-18-2004, 10:58 PM

Perhaps you could place an air cooled tech over the lines.

lines <- tec <- large heatsink <- cold air from forward motion

basically since the air is so cold ambient, the tec could potentially go 40-60 degreees F. below the hot side of the plate. Good for moving forward, this thing would SUCK if it was at a stand still. Perhaps you could rig it to only come on from 2nd gear up, or better yet.. go to low voltage mode in 1st or N so the heat doesn't transfer back onto the cold side, yet doesn't create the heat of a full load.

greenman100 · 10-18-2004, 11:09 PM

you'll be pulling a 1/3HP off the engine just in alternator load

I doubt his alternator can handle 20A on top of what it normally does

psychofunk · 10-18-2004, 11:15 PM

2 cyl? Wow, how long does it take for that turbo to spool up? And from what I have seen of snowmobile racing it seems as though you guys run flat out. What a crappy enviro for a turbo. You need a larger heavier turbo but you have no exhaust gases to spin it. If I were you I would focus on lightening and balancing the turbine, maybe even a ceramic blade turbine. Seek professional advice, a shop will do you a lot better then asking a bunch of water cooling guys how to further cool the air. Scew cooling you need to work on bigger and lighter so that you can get more power sooner. My 2cents :shrug:

MountainLife · 10-19-2004, 12:58 AM

we don't have an alternator we have a stator

what's a tec?

re 2 stroke we have prob more exhaust gas than a v4 v6 2 stroke is a serious air pump turbo spools very fast

turbo is perfectly setup

superart · 10-20-2004, 08:58 AM

a TEC is a Thermo Electric Cooler.

Think of it kinda like a balgna sandwich with 2 wires sticking out of it. When current is applied to the wires, one piece of bread gets really really hot, and the other gets really really cold.

You clamp or epoxy the cold side to whatever you want to keep cold, and try to cool the hot side off somehow. Like a HSF or a waterblock. In your case a HSF would be nice since you are getting cold air whisking past it anyway, so you wouldn't even need a fan.

The possible problems with this are if you do something wrong, you might wind up heating your fuel instead of cooling it. Also, if as stated earlier, when standing still, you might overheat....but if that happens, just tell everyone you made your snowmobile based on F1 specs :-D.

Also, a small intercooler for the fuel wouldn't be too bad if you placed it right. Maybe you could put a side air scoop, like on an F1 car. Also, since your running a 2 stroke, you might want to think of intercooling the oil also (if I recall corectly, in a 2-stroke the oil and fuel are mixed and both burnt in the engine together, right?).

**please disregard the shitty spelling. I'm in a hurry, and dont have spell check.

bobkoure · 11-02-2004, 07:29 PM

You don't want TEC, you want an intercooler.
the most efficient way to cool your incoming mixture is after you've heated it by compressing it with the turbo - not by cooling already-pretty-cold gasoline.
Are you turbocharging into the crankcase or directly into cylinder? Was this setup originally intended for a turbo or have you added it on? What sort of valving are you using? Ports? Discs? Reeds? (not sure reeds would work with a turbo).
The traditional way to get extra cooling on a two stroke is, of course, to dump more gas through. If you've got anything left in the tank at the end of the race, that's still worth considering. You might even try water of alcohol injection into the plenum...

oddcomp · 12-23-2004, 11:38 PM

my own .oooo2 cents actually running a turbo in my car
first off you could go do it yourself fuel injection to give you better performance
try www.msefi.com
intercooling is easy to do for your size i would look on ebay for like a used one
the vw corrado has a fairly small unit that would work well
since your racing in cold weather i would not worry about the extra weight and complication of water to air intrcooling
a properly sized air to air intercooler will/should work just fine

10-18-2004, 07:38 PM	#1
MountainLife Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 4	Need a turbo cooling system, anyone? Hye guys looking for an edge in my snowmobile racing, I have a 2 stroke 2 cyl motor with a turbo system on it. The colder the intake air the more power the colder the fuel coming in the more power so i was trying to figure a way to adapt your genius cpu and case cooling systems to my application. for the air i have an aluminum air intake tube and a pressurized airbox i'd like to maybe put some plates on the alum air box to bring down the temps can this be done with out some monmster heavy water cooling system? can c02 be used, or any other solutions? also would like to cool my fuel maybe on the fuel rails or fuel lines... any ideas would be great appreciated oh one other prob i have ac power not dc, thanks

10-18-2004, 08:24 PM	#2
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	If the turbocharged air is intercooled with all the subzero air around, that should be enough for that. As for the fuel, using a transmission cooler of some kind would work wonders if it had some airflow on it or something. Just route the fuel lines through the cooler and bingo. Cold ass fuel. But wouldnt the fuel be cold anyways just from sitting outside in the cold? __________________ I have a nice computer.

10-18-2004, 10:58 PM	#8
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Perhaps you could place an air cooled tech over the lines. lines <- tec <- large heatsink <- cold air from forward motion basically since the air is so cold ambient, the tec could potentially go 40-60 degreees F. below the hot side of the plate. Good for moving forward, this thing would SUCK if it was at a stand still. Perhaps you could rig it to only come on from 2nd gear up, or better yet.. go to low voltage mode in 1st or N so the heat doesn't transfer back onto the cold side, yet doesn't create the heat of a full load. __________________ -winewood-

10-18-2004, 11:09 PM	#9
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	you'll be pulling a 1/3HP off the engine just in alternator load I doubt his alternator can handle 20A on top of what it normally does __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

10-20-2004, 08:58 AM	#12
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	a TEC is a Thermo Electric Cooler. Think of it kinda like a balgna sandwich with 2 wires sticking out of it. When current is applied to the wires, one piece of bread gets really really hot, and the other gets really really cold. You clamp or epoxy the cold side to whatever you want to keep cold, and try to cool the hot side off somehow. Like a HSF or a waterblock. In your case a HSF would be nice since you are getting cold air whisking past it anyway, so you wouldn't even need a fan. The possible problems with this are if you do something wrong, you might wind up heating your fuel instead of cooling it. Also, if as stated earlier, when standing still, you might overheat....but if that happens, just tell everyone you made your snowmobile based on F1 specs :-D. Also, a small intercooler for the fuel wouldn't be too bad if you placed it right. Maybe you could put a side air scoop, like on an F1 car. Also, since your running a 2 stroke, you might want to think of intercooling the oil also (if I recall corectly, in a 2-stroke the oil and fuel are mixed and both burnt in the engine together, right?). **please disregard the shitty spelling. I'm in a hurry, and dont have spell check. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

10-18-2004, 08:27 PM	#3
MountainLife Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 4	well you're forgetting underhood temps which can get pretty high hot fuel lines etc and intercooler isn't really an option based on space, and having to vent through the hood in the front for the cooler to get air alot of vent space and it would get damaged probably.. any chance of any of cooling systems being adaptable?

10-18-2004, 09:51 PM	#5
2Busy Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 62	What about dry ice in a small can with a coil for the fuel to pass through? Maybe incorporate the aluminum intake tube in the whole thing? Probably would not take much dry ice to cool the intake tube and a coil of 1/4 id tube for the fuel? Is this "street racing" or do you gotta follow a certain set of rules?

10-18-2004, 09:57 PM	#6
MountainLife Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 4	anything goes.. not a bad idea but would always have to replace it etc wanted a real cooling system thanks guys

10-18-2004, 11:15 PM	#10
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	2 cyl? Wow, how long does it take for that turbo to spool up? And from what I have seen of snowmobile racing it seems as though you guys run flat out. What a crappy enviro for a turbo. You need a larger heavier turbo but you have no exhaust gases to spin it. If I were you I would focus on lightening and balancing the turbine, maybe even a ceramic blade turbine. Seek professional advice, a shop will do you a lot better then asking a bunch of water cooling guys how to further cool the air. Scew cooling you need to work on bigger and lighter so that you can get more power sooner. My 2cents :shrug:

10-19-2004, 12:58 AM	#11
MountainLife Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 4	we don't have an alternator we have a stator what's a tec? re 2 stroke we have prob more exhaust gas than a v4 v6 2 stroke is a serious air pump turbo spools very fast turbo is perfectly setup

11-02-2004, 07:29 PM	#13
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	You don't want TEC, you want an intercooler. the most efficient way to cool your incoming mixture is after you've heated it by compressing it with the turbo - not by cooling already-pretty-cold gasoline. Are you turbocharging into the crankcase or directly into cylinder? Was this setup originally intended for a turbo or have you added it on? What sort of valving are you using? Ports? Discs? Reeds? (not sure reeds would work with a turbo). The traditional way to get extra cooling on a two stroke is, of course, to dump more gas through. If you've got anything left in the tank at the end of the race, that's still worth considering. You might even try water of alcohol injection into the plenum...

12-23-2004, 11:38 PM	#14
oddcomp Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: longview,wa Posts: 1	my own .oooo2 cents actually running a turbo in my car first off you could go do it yourself fuel injection to give you better performance try www.msefi.com intercooling is easy to do for your size i would look on ebay for like a used one the vw corrado has a fairly small unit that would work well since your racing in cold weather i would not worry about the extra weight and complication of water to air intrcooling a properly sized air to air intercooler will/should work just fine

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