What do you think of this WC setup?

[Mathelo]

I’m going to WC my system. My current setup includes the following:

- CPU is an AMD Athlon64 3200
- Plain vanilla graphics card – no fan
- OCZ 600W PowerStream PSU
- 3 hard drives – Raptor 74 GB / WD250GB / Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 300GB
- Case: Antec SLK3800-B

I use this machine primarily for digital photography, music and video file processing and all the other usual stuff that everyone does, except for games. That is what the XBOX is for. ;-)

In the next 6 to 12 months, I expect to upgrade my processor to an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor.

My objectives are to make this machine run as fast as possible for these applications (means overclocking) but be quiet. It currently is pretty loud with the stock setup.

Here is what I’m planning for the WC setup:
Storm G4 – already ordered
Laing D5 pump or equivalent
'77 Bonneville double heater core
1/2 tubing
4 Nexus fans in push/pull configuration
No reservoir

I will build a rad box that fits under and integrates with the Antec SLK3800-B. The fans will exhaust into the Antec.

Also, I suspect my PSU is responsible for a lot of the noise but I’ve yet to isolate it. Anything I can do to make it quieter?

I’ve not thought much about fan controls yet although I’m considering the T-Balancer.

What do you think? All suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

L

[Mathelo]

Picked up the core this evening. Cost a bit more than I've seen people say on the net ($33.00 at Autozone) but at least they had it and its all copper.

L

Originally Posted by Mathelo

I’m going to WC my system. My current setup includes the following:

- CPU is an AMD Athlon64 3200
- Plain vanilla graphics card – no fan
- OCZ 600W PowerStream PSU
- 3 hard drives – Raptor 74 GB / WD250GB / Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 300GB
- Case: Antec SLK3800-B

I use this machine primarily for digital photography, music and video file processing and all the other usual stuff that everyone does, except for games. That is what the XBOX is for. ;-)

In the next 6 to 12 months, I expect to upgrade my processor to an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor.

My objectives are to make this machine run as fast as possible for these applications (means overclocking) but be quiet. It currently is pretty loud with the stock setup.

Here is what I’m planning for the WC setup:
Storm G4 – already ordered
Laing D5 pump or equivalent
'77 Bonneville double heater core
1/2 tubing
4 Nexus fans in push/pull configuration
No reservoir

I will build a rad box that fits under and integrates with the Antec SLK3800-B. The fans will exhaust into the Antec.

Also, I suspect my PSU is responsible for a lot of the noise but I’ve yet to isolate it. Anything I can do to make it quieter?

I’ve not thought much about fan controls yet although I’m considering the T-Balancer.

What do you think? All suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

L

[maxSaleen]

I'd get a reservior. Not having one with a pump as large as a D5 could hurt flow rates. Put plenty of foam padding in your rad box, mount the pump and res in it (after you fill it of course). Build the box so it has baffles on the intakes. The PSU we can come to later... Though you might experiment with building a baffle out of cardboard with foam padding on the inside facing the fan. If you don't know what a baffle is look here: http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=81800#

Notice the thing on the top of the case (look at the photos). That should give you a good idea of what a baffle is. If you need more help, just ask.

[Mathelo]

Thanks for the reply.

How does a reservoir help with flow rates? What I've read indicates that reservoirs hurt flow rate because they slow down flow velocity at the reservoir.

Yea, I've been thinking about the baffle idea for the PSU but wondering how much impact it will have once I get the CPU heat out of the case.

I just realized that I probably should have bought the Danger Den Heater core. http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=14&page=1
It seems to be a bit bigger than the Bonneville heater core, comes with barbs already installed, and cost the same as the one I just bought at Autozone. Bummer. I might return it.

L

Originally Posted by maxSaleen

I'd get a reservior. Not having one with a pump as large as a D5 could hurt flow rates. Put plenty of foam padding in your rad box, mount the pump and res in it (after you fill it of course). Build the box so it has baffles on the intakes. The PSU we can come to later... Though you might experiment with building a baffle out of cardboard with foam padding on the inside facing the fan. If you don't know what a baffle is look here: http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=81800#

Notice the thing on the top of the case (look at the photos). That should give you a good idea of what a baffle is. If you need more help, just ask.

[Mathelo]

I flew by this really quick. Are you talking about on the RAD box? Do you have a picture of what you are talking about?

L

Originally Posted by maxSaleen

Build the box so it has baffles on the intakes.

[jman1310]

Originally Posted by Mathelo

How does a reservoir help with flow rates? What I've read indicates that reservoirs hurt flow rate because they slow down flow velocity at the reservoir.

L

while the flow rates in a reservoir might appear slower, they do not change because the volume of moving fluid increases.

think of a river - when it is very wide, it moves very slowly
when it is narrow, it speeds up
this is because the total volume of the moving water is static
if you make a narrower channel it must move faster but the same volume of fluid is moved so the flow rate must also be static

it can be argued the flow rates should increase because there is less resistance in the reservoir
flow resistance in tubing is calculated be the diameter of the tube. it decreases exponentially as hose size increases
keep in mind that at our flow rates and tubing lengths this is a very minimal effect

[maxSaleen]

Look under the articles page here on procooling for an article pH did about reserviors and flow rates. A well placed reservior can help keep the impeller flooded, thus increasing the available water to push. I should mention this is more noticeable on a pump where the inlet diameter is larger than the outlet diameter. A reservior also makes filling and bleeding a hell of a lot easier.

Examples of a baffle.... hmmmmmm....

Think of it this way:
Imagine a box with two open ends. Now imagine covering up the ends of the box with appropriately sized covers but placing standoffs 1" between the the cover and the box. This makes it so that air can get in, but it makes it more difficult for sound to get out. The placement of the baffle can be adjusted to the frequency of the fan's noise so that it is impossible for the sound to refract around the baffle. It can still reflect out of the box, though foam on the baffle can minimize this.

Such a baffle would not be effective on the exhaust; it would kill airflow. A design such as seen here (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...oducts_id=2833)
would be more effective on the exhaust.

Clear?

[Mathelo]

So the purpose of the baffle is to muffle the noise? If that's right, then I get it.

L

Originally Posted by maxSaleen

Examples of a baffle.... hmmmmmm....

Think of it this way:
Imagine a box with two open ends. Now imagine covering up the ends of the box with appropriately sized covers but placing standoffs 1" between the the cover and the box. This makes it so that air can get in, but it makes it more difficult for sound to get out. The placement of the baffle can be adjusted to the frequency of the fan's noise so that it is impossible for the sound to refract around the baffle. It can still reflect out of the box, though foam on the baffle can minimize this.

Such a baffle would not be effective on the exhaust; it would kill airflow. A design such as seen here (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...oducts_id=2833)
would be more effective on the exhaust.

Clear?

[maxSaleen]

That would be the primary purpose

[Mathelo]

So what do you guys think of my pump choice? Given that I'm unlikely to add a gpu block, the Laing V5 should be fine with the Storm G4, right? If I ever decided to upgrade my graphic card, could this pump handle another block?

And the Laing V5 is quiet, right? I have to have a quiet pump.

The last piece of this equation that I can't make my mind up on are the fans. I've been all over the net reading everything I can on fans but the conclusions are all over the place depending on use, versions, and users sensitivity to noise, among a zillion other variables. I was planning on using the Nexus fans on a T-Bal but i'm wondering if the fans can handle the back pressure on this heater core (2-302). I read some favorable reports on the Papst 4412Ls but I hear of poor QC relative to sound levels. And then there are the San Ace that seem to be popular in some circles but not discussed at all in others. And then the Globes, etc.

What about the Panaflo's? You can get these in the supposedly more desirable 38mm thickness and the specs look good.

I was also considering 120V fans but only if I went with a 120v pump. At the moment, that option is off the table.

And what about 140 mm fans. Two of these would fit just about perfect on the HC. Why don't more people (anyone?) use these? Is it a question of sourcing them?

I'm also starting to rethink my overall system design. I was planning this as a separate plywood RAD box that my current case (SLK3800-B) would sit on top of. The idea is to keep all the WC bits together in a separate box that I can sound insulate as much as much as possible (including baffles ). This would end up being the length and width of the computer case and about 5 to 6 inches high plus ground clearance of 1 to 2 inches. The HC would lay flat in the bottom, with the fans in a pull configuration venting up through the case. The idea here is that these fans would do double duty of cooling the HC and providing airflow to the case. It seems that it should also dampen the noise a bit more as well if I properly dampen the case.

However, would the WC setup perform better if, instead of laying the WC on the bottom of the RAD box, I mounted it on its edge in the RAD with the fans pulling from side to side instead of bottom to top? This might improve cooling performance but at the expense of increased noise? What do you think? Also, I'm guessing the HC will be easier to bleed out the air if mounted on its edge instead of on its face.

Finally, I'm also considering just getting a new case, something like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811125467) that would just allow me to easily put this all in the computer case with the HC mounted in the traditional lower front. This would make for a neater install in the end and would take up about the same amount of space. But would it be as quiet ... or quieter? Sure looks like I could stuff a lot of insulting foam in there.

Thanks for all your help and listening to my million questions.

L

[Mathelo]

Am I on the wrong forum to get answers to these questions? Is it how I ask the questions? Inquiring minds want to know. This place is like a ghost town....

L

Originally Posted by Mathelo

So what do you guys think of my pump choice? Given that I'm unlikely to add a gpu block, the Laing V5 should be fine with the Storm G4, right? If I ever decided to upgrade my graphic card, could this pump handle another block?

And the Laing V5 is quiet, right? I have to have a quiet pump.

The last piece of this equation that I can't make my mind up on are the fans. I've been all over the net reading everything I can on fans but the conclusions are all over the place depending on use, versions, and users sensitivity to noise, among a zillion other variables. I was planning on using the Nexus fans on a T-Bal but i'm wondering if the fans can handle the back pressure on this heater core (2-302). I read some favorable reports on the Papst 4412Ls but I hear of poor QC relative to sound levels. And then there are the San Ace that seem to be popular in some circles but not discussed at all in others. And then the Globes, etc.

What about the Panaflo's? You can get these in the supposedly more desirable 38mm thickness and the specs look good.

I was also considering 120V fans but only if I went with a 120v pump. At the moment, that option is off the table.

And what about 140 mm fans. Two of these would fit just about perfect on the HC. Why don't more people (anyone?) use these? Is it a question of sourcing them?

I'm also starting to rethink my overall system design. I was planning this as a separate plywood RAD box that my current case (SLK3800-B) would sit on top of. The idea is to keep all the WC bits together in a separate box that I can sound insulate as much as much as possible (including baffles ). This would end up being the length and width of the computer case and about 5 to 6 inches high plus ground clearance of 1 to 2 inches. The HC would lay flat in the bottom, with the fans in a pull configuration venting up through the case. The idea here is that these fans would do double duty of cooling the HC and providing airflow to the case. It seems that it should also dampen the noise a bit more as well if I properly dampen the case.

However, would the WC setup perform better if, instead of laying the WC on the bottom of the RAD box, I mounted it on its edge in the RAD with the fans pulling from side to side instead of bottom to top? This might improve cooling performance but at the expense of increased noise? What do you think? Also, I'm guessing the HC will be easier to bleed out the air if mounted on its edge instead of on its face.

Finally, I'm also considering just getting a new case, something like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811125467) that would just allow me to easily put this all in the computer case with the HC mounted in the traditional lower front. This would make for a neater install in the end and would take up about the same amount of space. But would it be as quiet ... or quieter? Sure looks like I could stuff a lot of insulting foam in there.

Thanks for all your help and listening to my million questions.

L

[Mathelo]

If I go with the Papst fans, should I get the 4412FGL (25 mm / 7 blades) or the 4312L (32 mm / 5 blades)? Everything I've read seems to encourage the thicker fan for water cooling but i don't recall anyone using the 4312L.

Louis

[Delirious]

If you were looking for really quiet water i would have checked out the thermochill pa160?

[Marci]

Minimal replies as your topic is covered in a plethora of threads, and you haven't given chance to reply - nothing to say you'll get replies within 48hours... sometimes you can be waiting a week...

For silence: PA160 rad, PAPST 4312L Fan or Tricod / Yate-Loon fan, D5 pump, G4 block. Done.

No need for acoustically dampened radboxes or the like.... just the above mounted correctly... (ie: Antivibration mountings for pump and rad)

[Mathelo]

Marci,

Thanks for the reply. Just impatient. I've read many, many of the threads. Its just pulling it all together for the current situation is always the trick.

I considered going with the PA160 rad but thought a double HC would give me more headroom albeit with some sound penalty. Of course I could add a second PA160 in the future but the single HC just seemed cleaner. Cost is not a nonissue either but of secondary concern to me.

What is the Tricod fan? I know i've seen reference to that before?

Do you have any thoughts on my 3 different approaches to configuation?

Thanks for your comments and again my apologies for being impatient.

Louis

Originally Posted by Marci

Minimal replies as your topic is covered in a plethora of threads, and you haven't given chance to reply - nothing to say you'll get replies within 48hours... sometimes you can be waiting a week...

For silence: PA160 rad, PAPST 4312L Fan or Tricod / Yate-Loon fan, D5 pump, G4 block. Done.

No need for acoustically dampened radboxes or the like.... just the above mounted correctly... (ie: Antivibration mountings for pump and rad)

[Brians256]

Marci is giving you some good advice on system config.

PUMP:
D5 is one of the better pumps on the high performance end of "quietness". For a quieter pump, the Laing DDC (available in DangerDen or Swiftech stores) will work quite well and still allow you to overclock. It would probably depend upon your chip and system setup as to whether the DDC vs D5 would make any difference in overclock.

WATERBLOCK:
For maximum quietness, it's still hard to beat the MCW6002 because it doesn't require a large pump to work well. So, you can get a quieter pump. The Storm will give you better temps, though. In the middle range, the Dangerden waterblocks work just fine but probably won't give you as good of temps as the Storm.

RADIATOR:
The PA160 is going to be the quietest options you have unless you want to fabricate your own solution. There just aren't many thin radiators out there that are low restriction. Thinness buys you the ability to use a quieter fan. I'm glad that Marci (he's the vendor that made the PA160) made this radiator, but I'm sad that others haven't followed in his footsteps. In the mean time, you can't hardly beat Marci's design without using multiple radiators (in parallel air flow and series waterflow) to decrease the fan backpressure. Series waterflow, btw, looks to be better than parallel waterflow because of the boundary layer issues with radiator heat dissipation (as far as I know).

FAN:
For a really quiet system, use Nexus 120mm fans on the PA160 rad. For better temps, try a Panaflow L1A or the 25mm Papst. If you want better temps, go with more noise. There is no free lunch. If you want maximum performance and minimum noise, trade off space and buy one large or several small passive radiators.

Will your setups work? Yes. Will they be optimum? I don't think so, and I've described what the forum's current consensus seems to be. A rad box seems to be a good idea because the PC's case isn't designed well for having radiators in it. The large area sides are not done well for having a radiator stuck there, and the front/back/top/bottom sides just aren't very wide, which is what you need for an easy quiet and high performing setup. The 3-fan thermochill or the PA160 are pretty good compromises, really.

[Mathelo]

Everyone, thanks for your input. I've gone back and read a bunch of threads. This one settled it for me - http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=370518. I've read it before but all the technical discussion is just sinking in. So here is where I ended up.

PA160
Storm G4
Laing D5
I already have a Nexus so I'll start with that
T-Balancer to control everything

I'll try and get this all in the computer case. if not, something underneath.

Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Louis