Excellent Pump Review @ Cooling-Masters

[Cathar]

To be sure, taking everything that is discussed here at Procooling, and putting it into practise for a pump review. Excellent work. Setting a new standard for pump reviews.

Only slight issue is that the pump heat-performance charts were done with a fairly flow-insensitive water-block. Would've been nice to see a thinner base-plate block included for a wider perspective.

Here it is => http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-0.html

Oh, and it includes the new Asetek pump too.

[jaydee]

Don't believe I ever heard of the AquaXtreme 150Z? Anyway I wil try to decifer that with a translator later. Time for bed...

[Nugit]

Absolutely beatiful, certainly sorted out a few things in my mind. Nice with some comparable noise files for specific pumps, now we finaly have a way to compare pump noise with relative objectivety. Something I, for one, have been missing for a long time.

Yeah, whats with the 150z, a google search only turned out some woma 150z suitable for concrete demolition.

[tong]

is it just me or is it all in french? i mean i know i had a long day but......

[Talonz]

That's an absolutely fantastic review... Why can't we get more of those here in the states?

Edit: It looks like the reviewer had issues with his CSP-MAG. He says the plastic rotor was bent and not machined well. The noise does seem louder then I would expect (but this is just from other people's experiences, mine is on order right now..). Can anyone confirm on the noise aspect?

[maxSaleen]

That aqua extreme 150z looks strikingly similar to the panworld pumps that we were discussing doing a group buy on not too long ago. Look at the pressure rating on that thing! That's insane! I own a 50z (under the swiftech branding) and was impressed with its pressure rating. The 150z has almsot three times the pressure (head) rating. Wow!

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Talonz

That's an absolutely fantastic review... Why can't we get more of those here in the states?

Edit: It looks like the reviewer had issues with his CSP-MAG. He says the plastic rotor was bent and not machined well. The noise does seem louder then I would expect (but this is just from other people's experiences, mine is on order right now..). Can anyone confirm on the noise aspect?

A bit hit and miss really. Mine had a loud ticking noise issue which was about as loud as a ~35dBA fan comparitively speaking. This issue almost resolved itself when I pulled the pump apart, and re-assembled. The noise was less after inspection, cleaning and re-assembly. I then left the pump running circulating water for a week and the noise almost totally disappeared, and by that I mean that I had to have my ear within 12" of the pump to hear it, but it still hummed quite noticably which was audible from further away, and so I would say that the pump had quietened down to ~22-24dBA-ish.

Still, it was not as quiet as a "low hum" like some people have described, again, due to issues arising from that ticking noise which may have caused other damage resulting in the noisier than usual operation.

Plenty of people have gotten their pumps and have been totally happy and reporting nothing more than a very quiet hum and then only when sitting against something. Conversely others have gotten their pumps and reported the same loud ticking/clicking noises. Strange though that I got my pump for review purposes, and so did Roscal, and both had these issues. I never completed a review because I had contacted Dave @ C-Systems and he said the pump had likely been damaged in transit and that he'd send a replacement pump, but a replacement never arrived. I even offered to send this pump back if it would help. :shrug:

[redleader]

Originally Posted by tong

is it just me or is it all in french? i mean i know i had a long day but......

Yeah but the data speaks for itself.

[Long Haired Git]

If someone who speaks french can check if the review includes how much heat is dumped into the coolant by each pump, I'd appreciate it.

[Razor6]

Originally Posted by Long Haired Git

If someone who speaks french can check if the review includes how much heat is dumped into the coolant by each pump, I'd appreciate it.

You don't really need to speak french.

http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-13.html

[Incoherent]

Originally Posted by Razor6

You don't really need to speak french.

http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-13.html

Pump heat to water. I really like the way they have measured/calculated that.

[bobo5195]

the numbers look right to me. Efficentcy levels (overall eff = 1-(heat out/power in) of about those number sound about right. The DDC i'll have to check as it seems a little bit above what i would expect. A well made pump made in out second year (it was a group project) could get an efficentcy of about 40% (measured accuratly, see eq above as its a different measure). However those pumps had a better impeller geometery ("deathspike" and curved size changing blades) and only had to run with simple seals (as they in effect only needed to be used once).

Their results do no include the testing of power at specific speed so your mileage may vary with a different style of loop but it is an elegant method of testing.

I would have to plug some numbers to check the effects but bear in mind that the tubing and pump casing will effect the numbers as they will disipate heat a little. I need to run it through a translator to check properly.

[Talonz]

Originally Posted by Cathar

A bit hit and miss really. Mine had a loud ticking noise issue which was about as loud as a ~35dBA fan comparitively speaking. This issue almost resolved itself when I pulled the pump apart, and re-assembled. The noise was less after inspection, cleaning and re-assembly. I then left the pump running circulating water for a week and the noise almost totally disappeared, and by that I mean that I had to have my ear within 12" of the pump to hear it, but it still hummed quite noticably which was audible from further away, and so I would say that the pump had quietened down to ~22-24dBA-ish.

Still, it was not as quiet as a "low hum" like some people have described, again, due to issues arising from that ticking noise which may have caused other damage resulting in the noisier than usual operation.

Plenty of people have gotten their pumps and have been totally happy and reporting nothing more than a very quiet hum and then only when sitting against something. Conversely others have gotten their pumps and reported the same loud ticking/clicking noises. Strange though that I got my pump for review purposes, and so did Roscal, and both had these issues. I never completed a review because I had contacted Dave @ C-Systems and he said the pump had likely been damaged in transit and that he'd send a replacement pump, but a replacement never arrived. I even offered to send this pump back if it would help. :shrug:

Thanks for the response Cathar, hopefully mine will be alright. If it makes funny noises, I'll probably take it apart and see what makes it tick (no pun intended, really ).

[ricecrispi]

INTRO
This second edition of the comparative review of pumps intend for the watercooling after the appearance of poor models and current evolutions. This file is more complete than the preceding one, also includes AquaXtreme 150Z-DC12, the AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12, the DangerDen D5/Laing D5, the Dangerden csp-mag, the Asetek Waterchill 12V and the new revision of the Laing DDC. This review is complete with all the preceding pumps for the review

The pumps for our cooling systems must satisfy our cooling needs while using 12 V. This results into electronics generating less than noise and while using materials among the hardest ones of the world(csp-MAG) to reduce friction. The better pumps will use bearings of ceramic materials to carbide of silicium, aluminizes, or saphir that are all a lot harder ones than the steel, and just under the diamond. Also included are Ehiems, renown for the legendary resistance to the wear up to 10 years without concern. Most of the pumps generally originate from industrial environment without real link with the watercooling. While of others are done exclusively for that following the example of the Laing DDC, developed by Delphi and Laing for the apple account.

[ricecrispi]

delete

[ricecrispi]

Liang DDC
After the start problems on certain Laing DDC pumps preventing their usage. I wasn't sure of their usage for watercooling. I started a discussion with a technical person in charge with Laing Germany, Ralf Dörrenberg. They assured me they would try to locate and attempt to resolve the problem.

For the Liang pump, the start-up phase is very delicate. For it to start it is necessary to be able to magnetically start the rotor to induce to spin until it attain the appropriate cruise speed. Now, at this precise instant, the couple that serves to turn the body is weak and must fight against inertia and the frictions that opposes the rotor to the stop. The Laing DDC therefore programed to do several start attempts if she does not detect rotation, but it wnough to turn on in my case.

The DDC is a very optimized pump at a high level and not enough power for it to engage due to lack of power (manufacture tolerances). It is necessary then to tap it lightly to help it to launch itself. That is unacceptable for WCing!

Despite their tests on "defective" models, Laing Germany could not reproduce this this error that occurs in a small number of pumps. Laing USA was able to reproduce this phenomenon with a pump originating from a kit Corsair discovered by SystemCooling, with 3 failures for 20 start attempts.

It is necessary to know that Laing furnishes Apple in very big volume for their machines (more than 150000 unities). When comparing the thousands destined for apples, they never inventoried this defect. When I was able to obtain my DDC in August 2004 before available to retail....French mobojombo.. i had problems with a special sample pump.....

More verbose french language explaining that the pump doesn't work........

My very short summary of the cause fo the problem.

Apple had the pump design for tight tolerances and had less than 1% error in their units. So the problem with pc users is if you have less than the required 12 Volts you are screwed and the pump wont start. It is better to have 12.3 volts than 11.6 volts to start the pump.

Apple uses a different glycol/additive water mixture [80:20] that protects against formation of deposits. Not using this special additive may have formed deposits(carbon?) or liquid fomations that might have caused increased drag on the rotor.


A revision was released and current models do not have this problem. Some software adjustments and electrical modifications allows the pump to draw the required power to start. I have retested the pump in several diffrent conditions , restarts, and different coolants to see if the problem still exist and it's the pump revision works

Comparisons with the new revision

To verify the revisions, Laing Germany furnished me a new revision to compare to the old ones. I compared the new version, V2, to the old V1 to see if they perform the same and if the new revision worked properly. I open the sheel to see if any changes were made.

Except the fact that the wire of tachméter is put some places directly, the only change is fixing paws were added (already in places in certain revisions). The PCB was reworked lightly and one notes some differences at the level of the electric circuits.

Some french blab about delaying the startup of the pump to store enough charge in the capicator to help give the pump enouh current to start. Some test was doen to verify something I can't translate.

More mobo jumbo and the revision works and thats all I can stand for...

[ricecrispi]

AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12
basic info you can get off cooltechnica.com

The AQX50Z is a centrifugal pump using magnetic ___. This is the revision 2 of the former MCP600 that had known axis problems. This is an industrial pump from manufacturer panWorld, headed by of an engineer of Iwaki. Note the resemblance striking between their models

The body is completely in aluminum and the pump head in plastic. This is a pump exclusively to external usageand non-submergeable! THe outlets aref 12.7 mm (1/2") of external diameter and 10 mm internal so tubing 10 or 12 mm will fit tightly like John Holmes in the backdoor. .....Some pump description on how the 50Z works internally.

When on it's back, one can see the 2 mounting holes and bases that allows for guides of the principal axis allowing the rotation of torque in the front. Removal of the front cap gives access to the electronics hats, the stator, 3(magnetic sensors) situated on the white block at the back. ...pump jargon and how the pump works....

[ricecrispi]

Cooltechnica AquaXtreme 150Z-DC12
rotation Beach: ß3200 tr/min
Tension functioning: 12
Fluid usable V: All types
MTBF estimate: n/a
Max flow rate: 480 l/h
Max Pressure/height: 9 mH2O
Weights: 1331
Warranty gr: n/a
Electric connection: standard Molex 4 pines Price
Cost: $150/200 - available No for the moment


This pump, originally from PanWorld, is a new pump from the series PI able to use 12 V. This pump is design for maximum pumping power and guarantees maximum performance. This pump is a "high pressure" pump in comparison to traditional pumps in watercooling. (No kinding!!) It is able to attain more than 9 meters of H2O at pressure max, about 1 bar or 14.7 psi for US units!

The diameter of the pump head is impressive and the design was made to increase pressure. The diameter of outlet is 4 mm of internal passage for 8 mm external. The inlet on the other hand is 18 mm of external diameter with a passage of 14 mm. It is necessity for large tubing connecting directly to a reservoir. This pump is especially strongly and ...French jargon... good for a restrictive loop where more pressure is needed. As the AQX50Z, one can position the head in 6 different directions to adjust it according to its needs:

The design is the same as the AQX50Z, but with more power in mind. One can find the 2 distinct rotors and a magnetic entraînement with 6 curved channels. The electronics are internal but in a exterior compartment with connections to the sensors and electrical equipment around the srtator. 6 MOSFETs are under the PCB directly and are linked up to the metal shell to use cool properly.

The rotor is a closed type with 6 curved canals. The diameter of the rotor, that turns to ß3200 tr/min, is of 60 mm in order to obtain a speeds need to have a more pressure (conversion speed pressure). There is only 2 manners to obtain this pressure with a centrifugal pump. 1) increases the diameter of the rotor 2) increase RPMs. Increasing rpms creates more noise therefore is not viable in comparison with the first solution. The bearings are ceramic materials and the secondary axis is 6 mm in diameter.

As seen, the rotor has large canals than its smaller sibling. They remain almost identical, but the exit diameter is a bigger ratio allowing for higher flow rate. One could modify the 150Z while cutting the 8mm outlet, then added a new outlet for higher flowrate... One sees well that the rotor of the 150Z is clearly more imposing than the one of the 50Z:

Having a big rotor means having more inertia. The pump needs a long start up accelerates gently for about 15 seconds to attain nominal speed.

[ricecrispi]

While I was translating the Liang D5 review I got a deja vu feeling. I realized this portion of the review entirely plagarized systemcoolings article for Liang D5 pump!
I knew i read the review for somewhere.....

I will also skip the CSP MAG as systemcooling review offers similiar technical info.

[ricecrispi]

The last pump of the review is Asetek new Waterchill Xtreme 12V with reservoir. This pump is controllable by software via USB and makes the pump truely unique. NOTE: the pump starts at a speed of (3000 tr/min) when power by Molex alone. ASTEK info

First thing one notices is the immense size. It is really imposing! This is the biggest pump in this comparative review with a 16cm Lx7cm Wx9cm H with compresion fittings. This makes it larger than Eheim 1250 to give you a small idea. It really will be necessary to make room to use this pump but remmember there is a reservoir being integrated that does help. This still limit the purchase of the pump due to size...

The remainder of the kit is complete and has 2 temperatures probes, USB cord, the CD with software, a small manual in French(english), Water Wetter (anticorrosion + anti seaweeds), an molex cable to power up the pump, and 2 self-adhesive pads for the probes. Tubing of 10 and of 12 mm is also included especially for me, but is not in a normal package:

The version tested is the more powerful Xtreme with reservoir with a maximum flowrate of 3780 tr/min. There is also a standard version, slower speed, and turning in 3000 tr/min. I used the Xtreme for overclockers to see how the change in power works. NOTE: The faster you change the speed of the pump the more you will reduce the service life of the pump. The extreme also comes with several options of color and fitting types.

Removing the reservoir, one notices that this one strangely resembles the former model SACEM L35 preceding kits. It is a matter of a modification of the pump to adapt it to the 12 V as for the Eheim HPPS. The reservoir does not occupy some does that a small party to the before (130 ml) and one fills it through a cork 1/4 of helped turn of a joint torique for the étanchéité. For the entry of the fluid, a tube goes to the bottom of the reservoir to unstop under the water level and avoid thus the noises of clapotis. In functioning, nothing to repeat, the reservoir does well his work to purge the air of the circuit.

The embouts are type raccords Plug'n Cool for tube 10 mm or 12 mm external following this that you choose. The linking between the pump and the reservoir étanchéifié once of more with a joined torique on the diameter when one fits together the two parties. For the jackys, a location is foreseen to light up the reservoir to the assistance of a LED in option:

Asetek developed a PCB that allows supplying the pump then to manage the connection USB, the 2 probes of temperatures (resolution 0.5 °C), the optional LED, an optional LCD and 2 canals of 24 W maximum (2 HAS) each intend for the regulation of several fans, the all pilotable directly under Windows XP or 2K. While dismantling the back, one sees well the noyage in the resin of the interior of the pump (typical for the pumps of aquariums) to avoid the currents circuits when one immerses a pump. The Waterchill 12V is not well evidently immergeable here!

The green wire, linked up to electromagnetic armor plating of the stator, is to connect to the mass (to the carcass) but my tests do not show no difference on the influence that the field has on a screen CRT. The electronics of this pump is different of the others pump brushless to electronic commutation of the comparative one. The motor is piloted by a flea TPIC017B that is only a bridge in H to 4 MOSFETs allowing the passage of a current until 3 HAS, therefore amply sufficient here. His functioning temperature measured is close to the 50 °C in normal conditions to 3000 tr/min. The motor some did supplied as an aquarium pump working to the 50 Hz (speed of the field turning) except that one sends of the 12 V and not of the 230 V to the stator.

The Waterchill is therefore a machine synchrone that always remains to the same rotation speed whatever the restriction of the circuit. There is not noise increase when the debit diminishes for the rotor does not accelerate. By default, one measures a nutrition frequency of the stator of 50.08 Hz (recreated from the continuous current thanks to the bridge in H), this is to say 3005 tr/min. It suffices to do to vary this frequency lightly (under Windows) to impose rotation speed desired and to do it to turn more or less quickly, this is to say of 43 Hz for 2880 tr/min to 68 Hz for 3780 tr/min.

The pump puts about 20 seconds to pass of his minimal speed to maximum if one decides abruptly to change it. Ca avoids losing magnetic clash of the rotor if the field turning accelerates too brutally. Nevertheless, that itself nonetheless produced some times and the rotor did not know anymore where to give head. The pump puts itself then to graze, to vibrate strongly for the rotor changes very quickly direction several times before rediscovering the good way:

This pump needs 5 V and of 12 V to work. The 5 V serves only to supply the electronics and the request in power is negligible since the current on the 5 V is measured to 19 mY only (be 0.09 W). The fans will serve themselves on the 12 V what's more of the pump and their tension will be chopped for some to lower the average value and slow down their rotation speed.

Software is furnished on CD, but it is preferable to download the last version in the section support of the site web asetek (currently in version 1.4.8). To the first connection of the pump, Windows recognizes it and installs a generic drive to manage it (it is capricious with certain). An official drive is nevertheless present with software, but it is not necessary to change it. The rapatriement of the data is done then all the seconds about:

Software again rather basal for this principally is visualisation once one chose its parameters, but it himself fabric to every new version. Currently, one can regulate the fans of 0 to 100% by not any 1%, regulate the pump of 2880 tr/min to 3780 tr/min by not any 60 tr/min (be 1 Hz), see the temperatures (good to 0.5 °C near in comparison with a gauged thermocouple), have the system of the fans and manage also all the options as one can graft on the inspector. Profiles can be created and recalled to keep réglages predefine following the position of the moment. One has thus a global view of his system of watercooling, the all manager easily by a software.

For the versions to come, one all can envision since it is only programming and one has access to all the necessary magnitudes. One there could integrate of the alarm, an automatic regulation of the pump and fans according to the temperatures given by the probes for example (thermorégulation), a little as Apple is supposed to do with the DDC. The new version of software is well more revives than the old ones that tended to freeze very quickly to the least parameter change. Brief, it is necessary to leave a little times to the programmer to improve again and again.

[jaydee]

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

[BillA]

nice review, but google makes hash of some ot it (I have to suspect)
a shame Roscal has little interest in an English translation
Ben, what happened to your inquiry ?

[Razor6]

I believe it was rejected and Ben didn't want to go against Roscal's wishes.

[bigben2k]

Yep.

If there are any babelfish translations that seem questionable though, I'll pitch in.

[mwolfman]

I did a small simulation with the AquaXtreme 150Z... the gain for my block would be about 15-20% if the radiator takes care of the extra heat from the pump…