Where do I find the perfect oilcooler (OC-WC Twice Blessed?)

[Salkcin]

Hi,

I'm looking for the perfect radiator for my miditower and one of my critirias for that radiator is that it's less than 1" thick or else my low noise fans won't be able to effectively remove the heat.
Therefor I'm seeking the perfect engine/transmission oilcooler since these always are thin and effective - anyone knows where to get these in a lot of different sizes?

I need one for 2x92mm fans and it should at largest size be 9x6,5" - if it's bigger, but can be modified without major changes it would be okay to.

I searched the internet and found out that Overclock-Watercool (wich is closed) had a radiator called "Twice Blessed" wich I think would be perfect for my needs (it's 10" high, but the fittings can be modified to make it shorter). Anyone who knows where to get it or one like it?

I attached a picture where you can see the "Twice Blessed"

[9mmCensor]

I thought oil coolers were normally aluminum. And thus not used.

[TerraMex]

they're also available in aluminium fins and brass tubing (i'm guessing he wants one of those).
can't help with the "where" part.
suggest a 120.3/2 thermochill or similar (black ice, Nexxxos) ? probably easier to find and fit.

[GlassMan]

Check out the PA series at Thermochill, the PA160mm about 6.5 x 8.? x 1" Just built my first loop around it, expensive but very nice. Built from the ground up for water cooling. Links to the process at the site (it's at procooling somewhere. Marci's comparison
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...hlight=pa120.2

[Salkcin]

they're also available in aluminium fins and brass tubing (i'm guessing he wants one of those).
can't help with the "where" part.
suggest a 120.3/2 thermochill or similar (black ice, Nexxxos) ? probably easier to find and fit.

I got ~230x165mm (9x6,5") in the front to fit a radiator.
I think a 1x120mm radiator is to small for cooling a Pentium 4 630 @4,1GHz and a overclocked X800XL videocard since I'm not interested in running above 1600RPM on a 120mm fan and if the fan is 38mm thick then less RPM!

2x 92mm allows me to take better advandtage of the space I have available.

One of my friends recently switched his DangerDen double heatercore out with a Hayden 676 and dropped the CPU load temperature 6 celcius - the explanation is that the Hayden 676 is thinner and then his low noise fans are able to remove the heat wich they have no chance to do on a 50mm thick radiator and especially not the ones like Black Ice, Thermochill HE series and so on (to much resistance) - those radiators are for americans who call a Panalflo M1A 120mm fan silent (I don't understand how you can tolerate all the noise!).

So thin watercoolers for the masses (PA160 has a 1" thick core if I'm not mistaken).

[TerraMex]

if that is what you think, why not a Mora bolted to the side of the case?

[Salkcin]

Originally Posted by TerraMex

if that is what you think, why not a Mora bolted to the side of the case?

Because I'm looking for a "perfect" solution. It took me 3 years to find the miditower that I have now (Coolermaster ATC-111C) due Coolermaster stopped producing it in ~2002, so after a long time search I found a distrubtor who had 3 left to sell me one through a retailer.

That's why I'm not going to bolt up a radiator on side of the case... but I would proberly have done on my previous miditowers.

I'm looking for a in-case solution where I don't have to make major modifications.

[Jag]

If you're seeking for a perfect engine/transmission oilcooler then all your criteria match ony one radiator type: Saab 9000T oil radiator, made by Serck (a U.K. manufacturer).
It is made from aluminum, with very good results in terms of performance (you should read BillA's article about it), and it accepts two 90mm fans.
One major drawback: since its alunimum,you should take extra care not to contaminate the other components in your loop, using a good corrosion inhibitor.
Here is a pic:

[TerraMex]

problem is, its as thick as a black ice and as dense (fins) as one.
not what he wants. he wants a thinner radiator, and less packed fins.

[Marci]

"thin" isn't the issue. Rad cores can be made for low restriction to air irrespective of core thickness... the PA160 and PA120 series are all designed for SILENT fans (SilenX, Noiseblocker, Nexus, yateLoon / Tricod) without being "thin".

You also need to consider, these thin rads will likely be single pass... therefore obviously single row, and therefore obviously thinner... which has it's own tradeoffs within a system.

PA160 design goal is to get as near perfect efficiency and best performance possible from a single 120mm fan, no matter how quiet it is. Our main design goal in the past year has been towards silent cooling, hence all our rads tend to wipe the floor with competitors when compared with the same silent fans.

Don't confuse thickness of rad with resistance to airflow. A 24fpi single row single pass rad at 20mm thick would still be more resistive than a dual row dual pass 10fpi rad at 38mm thick... without bringing into the equation singlepass vs dualpass arguments (flow, turbulence etc)...

By stating "thinner is better" you're radically oversimplifying a complex issue... fin density & tube density.

[Jag]

Originally Posted by TerraMex

problem is, its as thick as a black ice and as dense (fins) as one.
not what he wants. he wants a thinner radiator, and less packed fins.

Correction TM: the photo may not ilustrate correctly the radiator in case, but it is considerably less dense than all of the Black Ice family, and the thickness issue becomes a choice per user, one can't have it all, since car radiators aren't made according PC users standards, or wishes.
Nevertheless it is aprox. 45mm thick, but with a performance far above all the usual contenders - again take a look at BillA's article on radiators and see the results for this specimen(Serck).

If the user wants to move away from the car radiators theme, then my next choice would be the PA160.

[TerraMex]

not the issue:

I'm looking for the perfect radiator for my miditower and one of my critirias for that radiator is that it's less than 1" thick

read the initial post.
he is not interested in a PA160 and has no space for it. (it is a good choice, nevertheless)
point of the twice blessed is not only area but also reduced volume (thickness),
as he stated (althou a pa120.2 would be a better , as stated before). Personally i would consider them, even if modification would be necessary (to the case).

marci pointed out the rest (about the overall thickness).

PS: for show and tell, the black ice is 25mm, the xtreme is 45mm, the nexxxos is 46mm. (dont have a nexxxos, but they seem less dense than the xtreme counterpart from black ice).

[Marci]

But his criteria is flawed... he wants less than 1" thick

or else my low noise fans won't be able to effectively remove the heat.

Now we know that not to be the case... if his only reasoning for less than 1" thick is because of his fans then he's foolishly restricting his choices due to lack of understanding of how rads work when it comes to airflow... need to assess if the above is indeed sole reasoning, and re-educate if necessary... THEN assess radiator options available to him...

[TerraMex]

i am aware of that, you already stated (and well) before.
Been pointing out the PA series (as glassman) as a better option.
his choice in the end, and he has a room issue to resolve.

hmm.
can we get a picture of available space?

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by Salkcin

I think a 1x120mm radiator is to small for cooling a Pentium 4 630 @4,1GHz and a overclocked X800XL videocard since I'm not interested in running above 1600RPM on a 120mm fan and if the fan is 38mm thick then less RPM!

You might be surprised. As I played the silencing game, my system's airflow kept going lower and lower without hurting stability. Your system has about twice as much heat as mine, but I'm running a single Yate Loon D12SL at ~5.5V. That should be about 600RPM, but my mobo won't report at those speeds.

I repeat the above recommendations for the PA160, which should just fit in your space. Temperatures would be limited by airflow, and HD and PSU noise significant. Can you ask more of a "silent" watercooling system?

[ricecrispi]

www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-151-1.htm. I have older sucker version of this case.

You can't fit much in between the 3.5 bays and space between the column and front of the case.

You might get dual 92 mm rad he dual 92 but you should bust out the ruler and measure bfore you decide what to do. Nothing worse then eyeballing it and find a 1mm won't fit.

[Salkcin]

Now we know that not to be the case... if his only reasoning for less than 1" thick is because of his fans then he's foolishly restricting his choices due to lack of understanding of how rads work when it comes to airflow...

I don't know much about radiators in theory, but the conclusion of the <1" need started with that radiators available at retailers had to dense fins and one should use heatercores (like the Chevy '86) since the fin-design had low air resistance allowing "low noise" fans to cool them down.
After some time using heatercores it was concluded they where to thick for the >50-70CFM configurations commonly used because of the air would already have used all it's heat capacity half-way through the core allowing uncooled water to pass (the tanks of the radiator where "hot" too, but not if the fans where run at full speed).
One of my friends recently switched his DangerDen double heatercore out with a Hayden 676 aluminum radiator and dropped his load temp 6 celcius degrees on a P4 640 @4,2GHz by just replacing the radiator.

If I totally misunderstood something you're welcome to tell me....

My fans are 2x92mm Enermax wich I plan to run at 1500-1800RPM at highest speed. I considered the PA160, but I will still give the thin radiators (typically stacked plate aluminum) a chance.
So I still seek a radiator for 2x92mm since 2x92mm at low speed will blow more air than one low speed 120mm.

hmm.
can we get a picture of available space?

Yes, see below (the 3,5" bay can be removed in the space drawed without instabilising the case. The 3,5" bays are weight-bearing construction). So there's 130x240mm to place a radiator. Taking up futher place in the height won't make sense since there's no air intake up there, but most because of I need the place for harddrives and an optical drive.