Time to go Water Cooled (need some professional opinions and help!)

[Israar]

Hey all, as you can see from my signature you will see mainly what components I have for my computer, if you want more then be sure to ask though I think that's all you need?

It's my own built PC, and yes I spent a bomb on it so far and now I want to go further, I've been after water cooling my rig from day one, though I've never really known "how-to".

Point is, it is best to ask before you try, that way little bits and bats along the way can be sorted before trying something stupid and causing a whole system messup

So, I want to know first of all, what do you lot think of the following kit; http://www.sharkacomputers.com/zareplsicpue.html -- I quite like it, though I was wondering if I can swap those water blocks to something like DangerDen or if not better water blocks? You see, I literally don't know where to start

Besides that though, I will be cooling my CPU and my GPU, not going to do the North Bridge because my graphics card is in the way... Or at least the cooler on it is...

Anyhow, with the coolant there with that kit, a 500ml bottle, I can hold upto 2 Litre's of water so it says as the max capacity is 2.5 Litre's, so, with there being that and it saying and I quote

The 500ml bottle can be added to 2 liters of distilled water at a 1:5 ratio for optimum protection.

First of all, how do I get a 1:5 ratio? Do I just measure out 2 Litre's of water and add the full 500ml coolant to it and shake it or let it mix together, or do I use a set amount of the coolant and 4 times the amount of the coolant I use?

When it says "distilled" water, hell you might get me for this; What the bloody hell is distilled water? Water is water to me and it always has been so this needs to be learned if I am going to go with water cooling, so, when I know what that is... Where would I buy it from?

All in all, I can't wait to get some water cooling in my computer, and I do want a good kit/combination for my rig, so if you know of better water cooling kit's then please be sure to state them

Oh yea, concerning refilling the water cooling kits, how long does the average last before it needs to be refilled? By that time will I need a new bottle of coolant and how would I top it all up? Do I just bleed the kit then refill it when it's ben bleeded?

If you need more information from me I'll try my best to give it to you if I know what you need of me, but other than that, thanks for taking the time to read this long thread and lets hope I can be helped!

--Lee

[billbartuska]

Originally Posted by Israar

So, I want to know first of all, what do you lot think of the following kit; http://www.sharkacomputers.com/zareplsicpue.html

When it says "distilled" water, hell you might get me for this; What the bloody hell is distilled water? Water is water to me and it always has been so this needs to be learned if I am going to go with water cooling, so, when I know what that is... Where would I buy it from?

Oh yea, concerning refilling the water cooling kits, how long does the average last before it needs to be refilled? By that time will I need a new bottle of coolant and how would I top it all up? Do I just bleed the kit then refill it when it's ben bleeded?

You could do alot better than that "kit". Look at The " H20-220 APEX ULTRA" from Swiftech. The Zahlman kits are not much better than air cooling. though they are quiet. Water blocks can be changed or othere added. But, you have to look at the flow restriction of the new block(s) and the pumping power (flow rate) of the pump. If the new block(s) put more flow restriction in the cooling loop, then there may not be enough flow to provide adequate cooling. See pHaestus's article on this site (http://procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=38) As you will see various pumps provide differing water flows with different restrictions. The same type of data is available for water blocks...how much restriction they provide at various flow rares. The same is true of radiators, except there are curves for both water and airflow. By looking at the data you can decide which pump/block(s)/radiator/fan(s) will work together successfully to give you the amount of cooling you require...or you can buy a "kit".

Distilled water is produced by evaporating water and then recondensing it. The inpurities are left behind, and extreemely pure water is the result. It is available in all supermarkets.

Concerning refilling: Where do you think water will be "used up" in a watercooling system? Where would it go? If there are no leaks, the water will last indefinately..though a clean and refill is advised at some time. There are varying opinions on how long..I would suggent anually would be a good starting point.

Oh, and the correct grammar is bled, not bleeded.

[Israar]

Originally Posted by billbartuska

You could do alot better than that "kit". Look at The " H20-220 APEX ULTRA" from Swiftech. The Zahlman kits are not much better than air cooling. though they are quiet. Water blocks can be changed or othere added. But, you have to look at the flow restriction of the new block(s) and the pumping power (flow rate) of the pump. If the new block(s) put more flow restriction in the cooling loop, then there may not be enough flow to provide adequate cooling. See pHaestus's article on this site (http://procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=38) As you will see various pumps provide differing water flows with different restrictions. The same type of data is available for water blocks...how much restriction they provide at various flow rares. The same is true of radiators, except there are curves for both water and airflow. By looking at the data you can decide which pump/block(s)/radiator/fan(s) will work together successfully to give you the amount of cooling you require...or you can buy a "kit".

Distilled water is produced by evaporating water and then recondensing it. The inpurities are left behind, and extreemely pure water is the result. It is available in all supermarkets.

Concerning refilling: Where do you think water will be "used up" in a watercooling system? Where would it go? If there are no leaks, the water will last indefinately..though a clean and refill is advised at some time. There are varying opinions on how long..I would suggent anually would be a good starting point.

Oh, and the correct grammar is bled, not bleeded.

Ok thanks mate, will check out the kit from Swiftech and check out pHaestus's article sometime soon. I appreciate the quick reply too

As for the grammar correction, was it really needed? If so, no problem, if not, no problem haha... Just wanted to know why you corrected my grammar

Anyway, will check both the kit and article soon and thanks again for the quick response

--Lee

[Israar]

Right, I have had a look around and read through that article you posted for me to have a read. I have come across with a selection of objects that I think are ok, but would like some more input on all/some if necessary and whether you think they are anygood for my current system.

CPU Water Block: DangerDen TDX Block for A64 1/2" ID
GPU Water Block: DangerDen NV6800 Block 1/2" ID
Pump: Swiftech MCP655 12v DC
Reservoir: Not sure on what reservoir to get
Radiator: Black Ice Xtreme III Triple 120mm Radiator
Tubing: Tygon 1/2" ID 11/16" OD Laboratory Tubing #R3603
Clamps: Breeze Miniature Hose Clamp 7/16" to 25/32"
Fitting: Not sure about these, may not need any... Though I may be wrong

The route I will take will be like this, or what I think will be ok:

PUMP > CPU WB > GPU WB > RAD > RES > PUMP

I think that should be ok, if not, please do correct

Hope you like them all and if you think you can find some better objects please be sure to post them and I'll have a look, as you can see from above... I don't know what reservoir to choose from as I wouldn't mind a fair decent sized reservoir, not too small and I don't mind having it out of my case either.

As for fittings, like I said above I may not need them but who knows?

--Lee

[billbartuska]

Originally Posted by Israar

would like some more input on all/some if necessary and whether you think they are anygood for my current system.

Looks good....better than good.

I like the rad after the pump, then the rad sees the highest water temp and in the most effective.

Look at the Swiftech MCW55 and DD Maze4 GPU blocks. The NV68's are hard to install correctly.

[Israar]

Originally Posted by billbartuska

Looks good....better than good.

Cheers, very much appreciated

Originally Posted by billbartuska

I like the rad after the pump, then the rad sees the highest water temp and in the most effective.

So, you would go like this; PUMP > RAD > CPU > GPU > RES > PUMP?

Originally Posted by billbartuska

Look at the Swiftech MCW55 and DD Maze4 GPU blocks. The NV68's are hard to install correctly.

Okies, had a look at both the MCW55 and the DD Maze4 GPU blocks, I seem to like the looks of the Maze4 better and it includes the ram sinks. Will not watercooling the ram sinks be noticable in GPU temps or not? If not no worries, new to this water cooling as you gathered

Also, could you recommend a decent sized reservoir, I don't mind whether it is inside my case or outside. Though I do have quite a large case (TT Shark Series Black)

Thanks for your time and co-operation thus far, it's great to know people out there who can give good input on what you are enquiring about!

--Lee

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by Israar

Cheers, very much appreciated

So, you would go like this; PUMP > RAD > CPU > GPU > RES > PUMP?

Yes. That's a good way to order your parts.

Originally Posted by Israar

Okies, had a look at both the MCW55 and the DD Maze4 GPU blocks, I seem to like the looks of the Maze4 better and it includes the ram sinks. Will not watercooling the ram sinks be noticable in GPU temps or not? If not no worries, new to this water cooling as you gathered

Not watercooling the RAM on the graphics card probably won't make any difference to your setup for the overclocks or the GPU temps.

Originally Posted by Israar

Also, could you recommend a decent sized reservoir, I don't mind whether it is inside my case or outside. Though I do have quite a large case (TT Shark Series Black)

The size of the reservoir isn't the big issue for it working well. What matters is that it is easy to use (easy to refill), gets bubbles out quickly, and doesn't grow algae well. Be warned that acrylic reservoirs in the open are great breeding grounds for algae. The easiest loop to take care of is not exposed to light. But, you can get around that by using water additives and changing water fairly frequently. Search for additives in the forums and read some of the bazillion threads on that issue if you want to know.

Originally Posted by Israar

Thanks for your time and co-operation thus far, it's great to know people out there who can give good input on what you are enquiring about!

--Lee

Good luck!

[Israar]

Originally Posted by Brians256

The size of the reservoir isn't the big issue for it working well. What matters is that it is easy to use (easy to refill), gets bubbles out quickly, and doesn't grow algae well. Be warned that acrylic reservoirs in the open are great breeding grounds for algae. The easiest loop to take care of is not exposed to light. But, you can get around that by using water additives and changing water fairly frequently. Search for additives in the forums and read some of the bazillion threads on that issue if you want to know.

Ok thanks mate, well, I've done a little research based on your request, I searched for "additives" in the search section haha! I've read one particular thread and I'm going to quote from it too, the quote is from Marci, here goes: This is the thread I am quoting from

Just on a visuals side of things...

Zerex Super Racing Coolant left the coolant looking the best, clear with a hint of pinky purple, v.little noticeable cloudiness or sediment. No staining. No noticeable corrosion. Zerex has always been my personal preference.

WaterWetter - stained the acrylic badly, instantly cloudy, white sediment visible. No noticeable corrosion.

PurpleIce - no staining, instantly cloudy and very murky looking water, white sediment visible but in lower quantities than with water wetter. No noticeable corrosion.

From that, I am thinking about getting the Zerex Super Racing Coolant, and was thinking of this reservoir from another thread D-TEK Bay-Reservoir- Dual 5 1/4"- Clear .

I know I need to use Distilled water, that I shall get, as for the Zerex Coolant... Is that the "additive" or just a coolant? (Or is the coolant the additive to stop the algae...) As you can see I don't really get this yet, so it's better to be corrected and put on the straight line than to go ahead and buy all the items then hope for the best!

Apparently the Zerex coolant is added to water at 10% by volume, so does this mean 10:100 (10ml of zerex per 100ml of distilled water? I may need to be corrected there...)

So, all in all, to try and sum things up a little, do I only need distilled water and zerex racing coolant or would I need another liquid to help protect the water from growing algae and alsorts of other nasty growing thingies that grow in water haha!

Thanks for the help mate, really appreciate all of this information, I can't wait to actually put the water cooling in my system though I'll need to buy the parts first, just want to know what I need beforehand

Originally Posted by Brians256

Good luck!

Thanks! -- I'll need it!

--Lee

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by Israar

Ok thanks mate, well, I've done a little research based on your request, I searched for "additives" in the search section haha! I've read one particular thread and I'm going to quote from it too, the quote is from Marci, here goes: This is the thread I am quoting from

From that, I am thinking about getting the Zerex Super Racing Coolant, and was thinking of this reservoir from another thread D-TEK Bay-Reservoir- Dual 5 1/4"- Clear .

I know I need to use Distilled water, that I shall get, as for the Zerex Coolant... Is that the "additive" or just a coolant? (Or is the coolant the additive to stop the algae...) As you can see I don't really get this yet, so it's better to be corrected and put on the straight line than to go ahead and buy all the items then hope for the best!

- Zerex is an additive to prevent corrosion
- Zerex does inhibit biological growth to some extent because it changes the water's pH. There isn't any great consensus about what to safely and cheaply add to prevent biological growths. pH changing additives retard the growth but aren't guaranteed to prevent it. Personally, I just change the pH positive coolant and keep light away from it.
- I used antifreeze in a diluted (10%) solution because I cared more about cost and maintenance. Then, Dangerden graciously gave me some of their additive and I have been using it since. Works well and there've been no growths in either system.
- Swiftech and Dangerden both have decent additives that you can use as well.

Originally Posted by Israar

Apparently the Zerex coolant is added to water at 10% by volume, so does this mean 10:100 (10ml of zerex per 100ml of distilled water? I may need to be corrected there...)

10% by volume means a 9:1 ratio of distilled water to additive.

Originally Posted by Israar

So, all in all, to try and sum things up a little, do I only need distilled water and zerex racing coolant or would I need another liquid to help protect the water from growing algae and alsorts of other nasty growing thingies that grow in water haha!

Thanks for the help mate, really appreciate all of this information, I can't wait to actually put the water cooling in my system though I'll need to buy the parts first, just want to know what I need beforehand

- Need is a strong word. I would recommend using Zerex and doing a system flush every 6-12 months.
- Regularly check your tubing at first to make sure you don't have anything growing.

Merry Christmas!

[Israar]

Originally Posted by Brians256

- Zerex is an additive to prevent corrosion
- Zerex does inhibit biological growth to some extent because it changes the water's pH. There isn't any great consensus about what to safely and cheaply add to prevent biological growths. pH changing additives retard the growth but aren't guaranteed to prevent it. Personally, I just change the pH positive coolant and keep light away from it.
- I used antifreeze in a diluted (10%) solution because I cared more about cost and maintenance. Then, Dangerden graciously gave me some of their additive and I have been using it since. Works well and there've been no growths in either system.
- Swiftech and Dangerden both have decent additives that you can use as well.

So you would recommend the stuff from DangerDen and Swiftech then, had a look at DangerDen store, and checked Swiftech sites but found nothing for the additives on the Swiftech site. Which would you say is the better additive out of these from DangerDen:

Zerex Super Coolant $4.50 (From what I quoted of you below, I'm gathering you would recommend this? If not please do correct again!)
MCT-5 $20.99
MCT-40 $21.99

Roughly in total for the highest there (MCT-40) it would cost me about £10-£15 as I'm British and we use pounds instead of dollars

Originally Posted by Brians256

10% by volume means a 9:1 ratio of distilled water to additive.

Ok, thought I was wrong, no good with the ratios thing so when the time comes for me to actually topping up my system with water, then I'll more than likely be asking -- Thanks for the correction!

Originally Posted by Brians256

- Need is a strong word. I would recommend using Zerex and doing a system flush every 6-12 months.
- Regularly check your tubing at first to make sure you don't have anything growing.

Need, ok... Well all I can say is that I will be putting a water cooling system in my rig, and technically speaking I only "need" to buy my objects/materials to get things going, though information is a high-end plus in my case where I have never used it before

So all in all, you would recommend buying the Zerex Super Coolant (maybe from DangerDen?) and have me bleed my cooling system every 6 or 12 months? That I can do

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on my tubing, thats for sure! Hehe! Thanks again mate for your time and lets get this thing on a roll

Originally Posted by Brians256

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you too, Sir!

--Lee

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by Israar

So all in all, you would recommend buying the Zerex Super Coolant (maybe from DangerDen?) and have me bleed my cooling system every 6 or 12 months? That I can do

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on my tubing, thats for sure! Hehe! Thanks again mate for your time and lets get this thing on a roll

No, I will not recommend any manufacturer above another unless I think there is a huge difference. There may be a big difference but I haven't researched Swiftech versus Dangerden. I would trust either and recommend both to anyone.

I have used Dangerden additive safely for about 1.5 years in one system and I'm using an antifreeze mixture in another system for about 2.5 years. NEVER FLUSHED. So, I'm not following my own advice. Dang, I hope it doesn't bite me in the arse when it fails.

I need to flush those systems!

[Israar]

Originally Posted by Brians256

No, I will not recommend any manufacturer above another unless I think there is a huge difference. There may be a big difference but I haven't researched Swiftech versus Dangerden. I would trust either and recommend both to anyone.

I have used Dangerden additive safely for about 1.5 years in one system and I'm using an antifreeze mixture in another system for about 2.5 years. NEVER FLUSHED. So, I'm not following my own advice. Dang, I hope it doesn't bite me in the arse when it fails.

Thanks mate, you've been a real big help just like billbartuska! I can't thank you two enough!

All I have to do now, as I have all what I need wrote down, is to order it all Then I'm good to go for testing it, gonna have it leak-tested for about 1 week to make sure it doesn't leak and for me to check it easier for any growths

Gonna save up a little more though before I start ordering

Originally Posted by Brians256

I need to flush those systems!

Haha! Then do it now then!

Just before I go, would 4 foot of tubing be an ample amount, or should I go for something like 8-10 foot of tubing? Not sure but I wrote down 4 foot on paper just as an estimated guess, I'd assume it would be enough tubing but you never know?

--Lee

[Brians256]

Personally, I'd buy 10 feet because I don't like to re-use tubing, and I always end up cutting at least one segment too short and having to throw it out.

With excess tubing, you can re-do your layout without ordering more from some distributor.

Re-using tubing has a greater chance of leaking because it's already stretched out and thus has an inferior seal with the barbed fittings.

[Israar]

Originally Posted by Brians256

Personally, I'd buy 10 feet because I don't like to re-use tubing, and I always end up cutting at least one segment too short and having to throw it out.

With excess tubing, you can re-do your layout without ordering more from some distributor.

Re-using tubing has a greater chance of leaking because it's already stretched out and thus has an inferior seal with the barbed fittings.

Ok thanks mate, was thinking of ordering 10 foot of tubing, now you made me finalise it!

I'll be buying the parts soonish, but not all at once, saving and spending so I don't cut myself short you see! Thanks for all the help mate, you have been really supportive and suggestive! I've learned quite a small chunk with my little time here on this thread hehe! As for the rig when it all arrives, like I said at an earlier date, I'll leak-test the system for 1 solid week to check for growths and leaks

Hope to be seeing you once it's all installed lol!

--Lee

[Bevel]

Originally posted by Brians256
There isn't any great consensus about what to safely and cheaply add to prevent biological growths.

I was wondering if adding a little chlorine (you know the stuff they put in pools to stop algae growth) to the water would be a good solution to preventing algae growth? Thoughts welcome.

OK searched the forums and it seems that chlorine is not a good idea, corrosive to metal, not good.

[Brians256]

The things that most people generally agree on are this:

1) Copper helps kill biologicals and is present if you've got copper in your loop
2) A mildly base (high pH) coolant helps but a too high pH will aid in corrosion
3) Keeping your loop not exposed to light helps
4) Changing and flushing your coolant helps
5) Never use tap water. Really.

There are many ideas that are NOT agreed upon by everyone, and I won't list them. This is what leads me to just accept a temp hit and use high concentration of ethylene glycol antifreeze and distilled water in a closed loop for a case with NO windows.

[TerraMex]

don't you mean silver?
silver is antimicrobial.

[Brians256]

Both are antimicrobial. Silver is far more effective and broad spectrum than copper though. Copper compounds are poisonous to algae, for instance.

This is what I've been told by various doctors/nurses. Neither silver or copper may be antimicrobial in the concentrations found in our loops, though. Anyone know for sure?

[TerraMex]

probably Cathar,
he has plenty experience with both.

[BGP Spook]

Originally Posted by Brians256

...Neither silver or copper may be antimicrobial in the concentrations found in our loops, though. Anyone know for sure?

Some anecdotal evidence maybe?

I have heard old accounts of sailing ships putting silver dollars (one coin) in 55 gallon barrles of drinking water to preserve it for long voyages.

Not sure how accurate that is.

[Bevel]

If drinking water contains chlorine to stop bugs growing in it and it runs in copper pipes to taps without causing any problems for many years why can we not use it in a loop? Just asking the question.

[Bevel]

The chlorine not the drinking water.

[TerraMex]

i think what Brians ment was that the ions concentration in a watercooling loop, either Cu or Ag isn't sufficent to act as an antimicrobial.

chlorine is corrosive, will attack your tubing and the rubber o-rings if in sufficent concentration.

[Bevel]

Originally Posted by TerraMex

chlorine is corrosive, will attack your tubing and the rubber o-rings if in sufficent concentration.

So if we run a low concentration similar to drinking water we should not have a problem?

[Etacovda]

Originally Posted by Bevel

So if we run a low concentration similar to drinking water we should not have a problem?

hrm, makes sense, actually. Tap water will not corrode our loop, and it has clorine in it - worth a shot, i reckon.